Dad's Truck Build

[1986F150Six]

No suggestions, just awe!

[Ford F834]

Gary, I’m not quite sure what you mean by a trimmed 2x4. Are you planning to use one on edge as shown in the pictures? If it were me I would use a length of 4x4 and notch out one edge so that it fit in the channel (my chanel measures 3-3/8” and a 4x4 should be 3-1/2” on a side. That would be more stable and less likely to topple. Maybe I am just paranoid but I wouldn’t like hoisting it on blocks that were wider than tall.

[Gary Lewis]

David - Good question.  My intent is to use a full-sized 2x4 plus a trimmed-down one to give a total length of 34", width of ~2 3/4", and a height of at least 2 1/2".  That length looks to be the max that the bottom of the floor of the cab is flat in the channel.  The 2 3/4" is about the max width I think will go into the "channel", and the 2 1/2" will ensure the lift's arms hit the wood and not the truck.

So, to answer the question, the wood will be essentially as tall as it is wide, and won't have a chance of toppling.  

As for prep for Monday, not much got done today.  However, I did get two boxes in.  The first had the new flywheel, and because of it I discovered that I was WRONG!  I said that M-Block flywheels have 180 teeth like a 460's.  But, this one came in with 164 teeth like a small-block, but was supposedly the right part number.  So I went back to the catalogs.

Here's the entry from the 1980-89 truck MPC showing that the flexplate for Dad's truck is D1AZ 6375-A.  But, it doesn't say boo about how many teeth.




So, I went to the 1973-79 truck MPC and found that the manual transmission has a 180-tooth flywheel.  But nothing is said about the flexplate, although one would assume.....




Then I went to the 1973-79 car MPC and discovered that the flexplate has 164 teeth.



So now our flywheel page (Engines/Flywheels) has been updated to show the tooth-count on the M-Block engines.  

And, I measured the OD and counted the teeth of the new M-Block flywheel as well as Huck's 460/E4OD flywheel: 14 3/16" & 164 teeth.  So the next thing to do is to measure the offset of the two to ensure that while I have the back of the crank on the M-Block the same distance off the block as the 460's, I want to make sure that the ring gear will be exactly where it should be and, therefore, I can use a 460's starter.

But, that raises questions about what starter to use on a manual-transmissioned truck.  An auto has a 164-tooth flexplate and a manual has a 180-toothed flywheel?  

[Gary Lewis]

David, as well as all y'all - I've rethought the plan on the wood.  I think I'll notch one of the 2x4's as shown below, then screw the two together.  That way there's more base width and less chance to tip.

And, I can probably do it on the mill, which means I won't have to bring the table saw down from the attic.

Thoughts?

[Ford F834]

Gary, that’s exactly what I was thinking of, but starting with a 4x4 so you don’t have to join anything. Maybe I didn’t explain it well... but screwing two 2x4’s together will give you the same result. 👍

[Gary Lewis]

I routinely use 2x4's around the shop, but not 4x4's.  Like yesterday when I was rolling the truck around there was one spot where it didn't want to stay so I tossed a chuck of 2x4 in front of the tire.  Problem solved.  So this way I'll have lots to chop up for whatever I need.

And, while I'm accused of never throwing anything away, there's a reason for that - I'll need it some day.  Sure enough, the left over 6" wide strip of marine carpet I used on the boat trailer bunks will be perfect to put over the top of the wood.  That way nothing will stick to the undercoating and peel it off.

This is what I hope to get done, along with some more cleaning, tomorrow.  We shall see.

[Steve83]

Gary Lewis wrote

But, that raises questions about what starter to use on a manual-transmissioned truck.  An auto has a 164-tooth flexplate and a manual has a 180-toothed flywheel?

One of my early jobs was rebuilding starters & alternators.  If you can't find that starter, any decent shop should be able to build a starter the way you need.

[ArdWrknTrk]

Lester 3225 for a flywheel.

The autos take a 3226


Hth

[Gary Lewis]

Steve - Thanks, but one of my goals is that my offspring won't have to have things made for the truck, so I'm really hoping that a starter for a 460 auto will work.  And, my thinking is that the only thing that would prevent that would be if the flexplates have different offset.  So one goal for today is to prove that the have the same offset.

Jim - Thanks.  That does help, but I think those are starter numbers not flywheel numbers.  At least that's what I found when I googled those numbers.  In fact, here's the DB Electrical #3226, and it says it is the mini-starter for a 460 automatic.  In fact, that's probably the starter I'll buy for Dad's truck.

[ArdWrknTrk]

I'm sorry Gary.

Yes those are starter numbers.
From what Steve quoted above I thought you were asking which starter to use for a flywheel v/s an automatic.

It's my understanding that 460's weren't available with a clutch before the 1983 model year.
Although some 429 powered muscle cars obviously had manual gearboxes.
Not sure what those '70's Mustangs, Cougars and Torinos used for a flywheel.

I remember having a heck of a time diving deep into starter gears and tooth counts when I swapped a Zf into my truck.
As a data point, the cheap Chinese starter from DB seems to be as going strong, despite the bad tolerance of my aftermarket Dorman flywheel.

[Gary Lewis]

Jim - Dorman doesn't have a corner on the bad tolerance.  Just measured the flexplate I got from Rock Auto and the ring gear measures from .360" to .460" from the mounting face.  I just hope that's within tolerance.

And, speaking of those measurements, they were in an effort to make sure the ring gear will be where it is supposed to be in relation to the starter's mounting point.  And the table below shows what I found: the flexplate will "average" .087" further away from the starter than on a 460.

Should be good.  Right?

[ArdWrknTrk]

I wouldn't think 0.090" is a problem.
But I don't know what the axial engagement depth is, nor the "lead" of the teeth on the starter.

At least you won't have an issue with the starter not retracting far enough and being overdriven by the engine when it fires up.  

Although, your last post about tooth counts had me thinking more about radial engagement, which is a function of the clocking of the drive to the mounting bolts from what I recall.
IOW the output shaft of the pmgr starter is not concentric with the mounting flange, and there is a difference between manual and auto starters.

Bill and his son had hooked me up with some very good documentation back then but I don't have any backups to refer to.

[Gary Lewis]

If you, Bill, or Matt (his son) come up with that info we could figure out where to put it on here.  

And, good to hear the DB starter is still cranking that 460.  I'm sure something like that's what I'll put on.  And, I'm sure that a 460 auto starter will be just the ticket.

Now for what I did today - beyond checking flexplate dimensions and posting pics of a spare tire lock.  Basically, this was one of those rare days when everything clicked.  In fact, I think I had divine help.  The first serendipitous thing was that the 2x4's are undersized - they are exactly 1 1/2" thick.  So, two together gives me exactly the 3" I needed to go into the "channel" without having to take anything off the sides.  

Given that, I quickly chopped them up to 34" long and screwed them together two by two.  Then I pulled out the scrap carpet and it was also 3" wide.    I cut two pieces of that and stapled it onto the "top" of the 2x4's, with the staple going into the crack between the two boards so it won't hit the truck.

And, here's what they look like:




Then, since it was not quite noon I decided I needed to pull the cab.  It should be a piece of cake to pull the mounting bolts since they had been powder coated and had never been torqued down - right?  Well, it probably would have been had not some dummy painted the exposed ends.    But, with a little creativity they came out easily enough.

Then, with a quilt separating the bed from the cab, I pushed the lift button - and the cab went up perfectly straight.  Never touched the quilt, much less the bed.  And, here the long-awaited before and after:

[1986F150Six]

"Progress is good"!

[Gary Lewis]

You beat Jim to it. But this isn't just progress, it is the prelude to a major milestone.

[1986F150Six]

Bring on the engine and transmission!!!

[Gary Lewis]

Yep, MONDAY! BE THERE!

In the interim I have several things I need to do:

• Check to make sure I have all the fasteners ready and lay them out in an orderly fashion
• Look up and write down all the torque specs for those fasteners
• Wrap the head of each fastener in electrical tape
• Put the new stainless cotter keys in. (I just painted the studs of the tie rods, so when that's dry I can put the keys in.)
• CLEAN THE SHOP! I have tires and lots of other stuff that needs to go to the attic, and if I had all that out of the way it would be a lot easier to maneuver the shop crane on Monday.
• Pick up the engine and swivel the shop crane around so that it is ready to go. But I can't pull Tim's stands off the engine yet and put the mounts on as the shop crane's ram leaks and it'll set the engine on the floor overnight.
• Figure out which end of the input shaft for the E4OD goes into the tranny - and mark it!

And there will surely be lots more I should or could do, but I'll use that as my to-do list.

[Ford F834]

Looks fantastic Gary... you are going to make this seem almost too easy! 😉

[Gary Lewis]

Too easy?!?!  Nobody in their right mind would ever do this - assuming "this" is take every nut, bolt, washer, and spring down to base metal and then coat it.  

Seriously, had I known how long this would take and how involved it would be I'm pretty sure I wouldn't have gone down this path.  Having said that, it'll be a unique truck.  

Anyway, as Dad would have said, if that's a compliment I thank you.  

On the transmission input shaft, and transmission in general, I'm finding these things:

This post on FTE says "Also worth mentioning that you be sure when you put the TC back in the trans it drops in in three distinct steps. When converter is properly seated into the trans the TC center hub will be ¼" below the matting surface as measured off the bell housing face via a straight edge for reference."

And this post on FTE says "The end with long splines goes into the transmission. If you were to install it bassakwards the turbine in the convertor would bind."

But you never really know if the people on those forums know what they are talking about, so I guess I'll call Aspen Transmission tomorrow and have them tell me which end of that input shaft goes in first.

[Ford F834]

Gary Lewis wrote

Seriously, had I known how long this would take and how involved it would be I'm pretty sure I wouldn't have gone down this path.

Sounds kind of like children Gary! 😂

And yes it was meant as a compliment. I was referring to the lifted cab and preparation is going to make the engine/transmission install quite nice compared to the usual method! Monday should be a great day and Dad would be proud.