Ferdinand - '85 Bronco 351W XLT "Phoenix" rebuild project...

[Ferdinand]

What's that?

[Rembrant]

Ferdinand wrote

So the real issue at hand... My coolant leak:

I fashioned a make-shift tranny/transfer case cradle real quick. It worked LIKE A DREAM! Especially for always wrestling this stuff alone.

Hoping the residual coolant from the run test would tell me something, I UV'd the entire engine compartment.

I found one small "trace" line that really didn't prove to be coming from outside the bell housing area.


But, by far, the bulk of the coolant appears to be coming out from around the rear crank area...

I even drained my engine oil thinking there has to be cross contamination, but found none...
I am completely stumped.

Stupid question...and maybe you have already done this, but have you checked for coolant along the oil pan gasket? The reason I ask is...and I forgot to post this previously, I had some time one morning while having my coffee and did some searches on your problem. Surprisingly, I found several cases where 351 guys had mysterious coolant leaks coming from the ring gear/trans inspection cover, appearing to be coming down from the rear main seal. I think in all cases, they found the coolant leak to be at the front of the engine, but the coolant was running along the oil pan gasket, and dripping out around the rear main seal. Not a single drip anywhere else along the way, but a front engine leak, dripping at the rear main seal.

A couple of the guys were just as frustrated as you are now trying to find the source of the leak.

Anyway, just thought I'd throw it out there. If you've already thought of this and inspected it, then disregard.

[Rembrant]

Ferdinand wrote

Progress Update:

Reconditioned the original air cleaner:

That looks great!

What exactly did you do to recondition it? Did you paint it? If so, with what?

I have one that needs to be done...

[Ferdinand]

Rembrant,

Thanks for taking the time to do some reading and offer some guidance. Seriously.

I am at a loss on this one. I did find similar threads and checked there as well. Nothing.

My usual practice is to trim my oil pan gaskets with a razor blade and finish tooling the squeeze out RTV with my finger to try and eliminate the "shelf" that can carry that goofy stuff all over. (I did leave the corners pretty ugly on this one, I'll admit)

At one point I got real excited because I actually thought that is what I was missing. I spent so much time at the rear, I dismissed the potentials for front leaks to blow back aided by the fan. But, nothing.

One of the most mysterious things about this leak is for the amount of coolant leaking at that rear area, wherever it is coming from should be  VERY obvious, but it is certainly not!

At this point I have done probably 3 visuals while running, 2 tests where I fashioned a white swab on a wire and chased all the seams on the block, heads, intake, and freeze plugs while running, 3 pressure tests over time, and two complete UV tests, with a full wash down and dry in-between. I have never had to look so hard in all my life for a coolant leak. It just doesn't make sense. There are only so many options where this can be leaking from.

I still feel like it is going to end up being something stupid. But, man, I have tried to rule out all the "stupid" I can think of...

[Gary Lewis]

I don't know what to suggest on the coolant leak.  So let me start with the air cleaner - I like it!  And, I like the gray bumper, as well as the trans/t-case carrier.  Very well done.  

On the coolant leak though, one trick I've used is to put portions of paper towels in places that might be the source of leaks.  Tape them on, stick them in holes, wedge them in, etc.  And I've found leaks in places where I was pretty sure there was no leak.

So, I'd suggest that along the pan were it not for what you say you've done.  That would seem to have turned up any leaks there if there were some - but hasn't.

So, I'm baffled.  

[Ferdinand]

A little progress.

I know this sticker is a bit over the top but I HATE to see people grab the steering wheel and pull themselves up into a lifted truck... Steering columns/wheels just aren't made for that kind of load.



I wanted a soft handle for the inside in case good bump got you bouncing into it and everything else I was finding was for tube bars like in Jeeps. So, I found these handy little Kayak handles rated to 500lbs.:


Installed driver's side Hoop II Step from Carr Industries. I upgraded some of the hardware. I must say though, I am not overly impressed.


Cleaned and painted the rear valance and ground down, blasted and painted all the carriage bolts for the bumpers tonight. Hoping to install the rear bumper tomorrow night.

[Ferdinand]

Rembrant,

Most all of my reconditioning has been blasting it down to etch the metal. Then I use a metal etching primer of some sort then rattle can. All the black has been Rustoleum Professional Grade Gloss black and the the Grey has been a Duplicolor Graphite Grey that I am really liking as a subtle contrast against all the black.

I asked a local printing company to come up with as close of a font as possible for the "Ferdinand" so it would match as close as possible to the original font on the front of the air cleaner.

I had totally planned on using a K&N 4" tall filter element with a matching filter lid, but after reading all Gary's thoughts on stock air cleaners, I decided to order some replacement flex hose and recondition my original housing.

It got pretty messed up in the fire but it could have been WAY worse!

[Gary Lewis]

I like the handle, and the decal should get plenty of attention.  How did you fasten the handle - I can't quite tell.

The fire pic looks awful!  I'm sure it could have been way worse, but that's hard to grasp.

[Ferdinand]

Morning Gary,

That is what I was shooting for. Something obnoxious enough folks would notice it and reach for it before the wheel. Only time will tell.

I put the handles on with small stainless screws. I didn't want to rivet, or to drill too large of holes because I would really like to get a nice headliner made eventually.

The fire was a shot in the gut for sure. It is hard to believe that I am fast approaching a full year on this project. I don't normally do anything this involved. (at least mechanically)

I checked in with the engine shop yesterday and they are due to get back with me this morning. I am rather anxious to hear their final verdict.

[Ferdinand]

Happy Thanksgiving everyone! 🦃

Gobble till you wobble 😉

[Gary Lewis]

Happy Thanksgiving to you!  But, what if I already wobble?  Can I still gobble?

[Ferdinand]

You and I both 😂

Seriously though, I hope you and all our friends on the forum had a great Thanksgiving!

[Gary Lewis]

I certainly did have a Happy Thanksgiving!  All of our family was here, and it was a very good time.

[Ferdinand]

So I have been trying to get back in the groove with the Bronco but the flu/pneumonia really took most of my steam since my project time usually doesn't start until after 10p.

The coolant leak issue has everyone stumped so sadly, a huge step backward:



Hopefully pulling it tonight and hauling it down to NC next week to let the guys tear it down and find what in the world is going on...

Here is an item for consideration/discussion:



The engine has been run about 8 times now (including the cam break-in). I am amazed how different the coolant looks between the drain at the lower end of the radiator and the coolant that has leaked out of the rear somewhere. It sure looks like it has been contaminated with oil...
The only issue with that theory is that if it has indeed been contaminated, all the coolant should look the same. (At least that's what I'm thinking with my current line of reasoning, which could certainly be flawed...🤔)

However, here is a short clip of me draining the oil to verify if there was any contamination:



Please excuse the frustration at the end of the clip. I am nearing my wits end with this thing. 🙃

[Ferdinand]

Glad to hear it Gary.
Family is certainly some of our greatest blessings!

[Gary Lewis]

Hope you are recovering from the flu.  That's no fun.  

The coolant out of the drain looks perfect, as does the oil.  So, apparently the coolant in the leak is mixing with oil outside of the two systems.  In other words, you have both a coolant leak as well as an oil leak?

I'm sure you are really, REALLY frustrated.  I would be - for sure.  What a bummer!

[Ferdinand]

Sorry for the sabbatical gentlemen.

Took many steps backwards but I think I am slowly moving forward again. I hope...

All out again:



NC & Back in 27 hours to talk with the guy who built the motor.



Gained some insight. Pressure tested to 40 PSI. Held for over an hour. Even used a torpedo heater to heat the block up and no leaks. It even built pressure as it got warmer. SO WHERE IS IT COMING FROM!!!

Remember when I mentioned I had hoped it would be something stupid? Well at least one thing certainly was.


I can't believe I looked at this 100 times and even had several buddies over and my cousin who is a pretty solid wrench. See anything missing???:


Let me give you a hint:


Sooo, I get that this would give me an oil leak. Duh, but what about the coolant leak???

Stay tuned 😊 I will have to finish the write up tomorrow. Losing track as I am nodding off 😉

[Gary Lewis]

That would give you a big oil leak!  Wow!  Surely that was the responsibility of the engine builder?

Can't wait for the other shoe to drop.  Wake up over there!!!!  

[Ferdinand]

Ok, I am back.

So I took several pictures of interesting things I found when I pulled some things apart but nothing too important.
 
Except this one:



So most of you all will notice the coolant leaking across the mating flange which would let it get into the other passages.

Well this is where the coolant was entering the oil passages and when hot, it leaked out the back due to the real seal missing...

I am just surprised the UV looked as bright as it did being mixed with oil. Also, when I drained the oil it looked nothing like the leak when both were inspected under UV light

I did find find some issues on the mating surfaces on the heads that may have prevented the intake from fully seating into position. I have remedied all of those and am pretty confident moving forward.

MAN AM I GLAD THAT SEARCH IS OVER‼️

Question: Anyone out there use sealant on the rail gaskets on an intake? I've always used in for the front and rear, but not the sides. Thoughts?

[Gary Lewis]

Sure glad you found it!  Long, long road but it must feel good to be seeing the end approaching.

As for the gaskets, I'm not sure what you are asking.  But, I don't use gaskets on the walls at the front and back that go across the valley.  Instead I put a 3/8 - 1/2" bead of RTV on, and using guide studs, lower the manifold on straight.  Then I run the bolts down snug and evenly, using the pattern, and let it sit overnight.  The next day I torque it down.

But you have to have the walls and the manifold CLEAN as the RTV has to adhere to it.

And, thinking about it, you may be asking about RTV on the mating gaskets.  Yes, I use a bit, but only around the coolant passages, front and rear.