Ferdinand - '85 Bronco 351W XLT "Phoenix" rebuild project...

[Ferdinand]

So glad you picked up on that.  2 Tim. 3:15

Thanks a million on the references for the bolt size. I am going to get the linkage together tonight so I can fire it up but I will look into that replacement procedure here in a few days. I am on a NO LEAK mission. Even the smallest ones just will not do! 🙃

[Ferdinand]

So progress is slow but steady...

I am LOVING the Graphite grey on the front trim!



I have a question about my nefarious coolant leak...

If I have my overflow blocked off right now because I don't have it connected (no fenders = not yet mounted the washer/overflow reservoir) would that build up too much pressure while running and force a leak where there wouldn't normally be one?

Curious of anyone's thoughts.

[grumpin]

I'm not sure, but you could run the hose to an empty coolant bottle to try.

[Ferdinand]

Thanks grumpin.

I'm thinking that as well. I am just trying to eliminate as many variables as I can. I am hoping to get the UV test done tonight and set my curiosity to rest!

[Gary Lewis]

I do like the Graphite!  

And blocking the overflow would cause higher pressure.  I'd try taking it to a bottle instead, as grumpin suggested.

Good luck on the test.

[Ferdinand]

No visible leaking under black light other than the leaking coming out from under the rear main.

 

Going to clean it up and try again here in an hour or so...

[Ferdinand]

BTW, Overflow into a coolant bottle on last test. Didn’t seem to make any difference.

[Gary Lewis]

I'm confused.  You said no leak other than the leak coming from the rear main.  So you are losing coolant and oil?  But no signs of where the coolant is going?

[Ferdinand]

Well I am guessing at the location because all I can see is where it’s running out from in between the transmission and the block. It’s dripping out of the same location it did before I pull the transmission of course. Per for all the cold that’s coming out of that location while it’s running I am absolutely amazed that I can’t see any: running on the surface of this engine somewhere.

[Gary Lewis]

Ok, I see the liquid that has the dye in it, but is that coolant?  It seems to be with the surface tension it has.

Can you take a look at the back of the intake manifold?

And, I've tried to embed your video - let's see if it works.  


<nabble_embed><iframe src="https://drive.google.com/file/d/1-u8Le22_E031DHT83EQ-TocTPRoUxd07/preview" width="640" height="480"></iframe></nabble_embed>

[Ferdinand]

Thanks Gary. Yes this is all only coolant. My apologies for the “rear main” comment. No oils leaking anywhere. Back of heads and back of intake are bone dry.

[Gary Lewis]

Ok, so it is coolant.  The main leak possibilities I can think of are:

The head/intake interface as there's a coolant passage at the very rear - as well as the front.  But you say the back of the block is dry?

Head/block interface, but again you say the back of the block is dry.

I don't think there is a soft plug under the bell housing that goes into the cooling system.  But I could be wrong as that's what this kind of suggests.

[Ferdinand]

Yes sir.

I just ran out of steam, but will try it again tomorrow. I have to be missing something. I even turned out all the lights in the garage so the dye would show up really easy and still, the only place I see it is in the back on the bottom.

-Block to intake is dry, Block to head is dry, Head to intake is dry. (And if I can stand another face full of exhaust fumes I may try to get another few short videos of those locations while its running.)

To get the right angle, I need to position myself right in front of where the headers are dumping

I would like to give the entire engine and engine bay a bath before I try again. I might try to use a little one gallon pump sprayer and some gentle cleaner and then rinse it off and dry it to get everything as clean as possible before I try again. Once that coolant hits the flywheel, it slings it every where down low.

Any recommendations on a cleaner? I am thinking something like simple green. I have a few better degreasers, but I don't want to chew through my new paint job.

[Ferdinand]

Thanks for the help with the video. I didn't realize that's not how I've put them in in the past. I went back and edited my post to show it (I think) more properly.

[grumpin]

Ferdinand wrote

Yes sir.

I just ran out of steam, but will try it again tomorrow. I have to be missing something. I even turned out all the lights in the garage so the dye would show up really easy and still, the only place I see it is in the back on the bottom.

-Block to intake is dry, Block to head is dry, Head to intake is dry. (And if I can stand another face full of exhaust fumes I may try to get another few short videos of those locations while its running.)

To get the right angle, I need to position myself right in front of where the headers are dumping

I would like to give the entire engine and engine bay a bath before I try again. I might try to use a little one gallon pump sprayer and some gentle cleaner and then rinse it off and dry it to get everything as clean as possible before I try again. Once that coolant hits the flywheel, it slings it every where down low.

Any recommendations on a cleaner? I am thinking something like simple green. I have a few better degreasers, but I don't want to chew through my new paint job.

I have used this LPS product with out harming things, but I will not say it is safe on your paint.

 https://www.lpslabs.com/product-details/594

But this is not always easy to get. Isopropyl alcohol mixed with water is one that I use. And I have found this Oil Eater to work good, kind of like a dry cleaning solvent. I use it to clean wheel bearings.

http://oileater.com/industrial/cleaners-degreasers/original-formula/

[Gary Lewis]

I've used Simple Green on a lot of things, and at a high concentration and high temp it will take the sheen off paint.  But with a light mix, like 1:4, and no heat it shouldn't hurt the paint if washed off.

[Ferdinand]

Sooooo, This is depressing.

Just when I felt like I was making some real progress, I am up on blocks again.



So I appreciate the recommendations on cleaners but I didn't have any of them locally so since I was set to test this weekend and not wait for products to ship. So, I ended up using a 50/50 mix of Krud Kutter cleaner degreaser in gallon pump sprayer.

I pulled the wheels to bleed my front brakes and decided to leave them off so I could have better access and visuals for the leak check.

I spent some time cleaning, rinsing, and drying the engine and engine bay to ensure an accurate reading the second time as well since once this thing runs and that coolant hits the flywheel it goes everywhere!

The second test yielded the same results:
No coolant at the back of the block, heads, or intake anywhere. Nothing leaking from the front and blowing back either.


*this picture was taken after I wiped up the bottom of the bell housing and the oil pan. More continued to drip from the bell housing once I cleaned it up.

The coolant that I wipe out of the bell housing does seem to have some oil in it from what I can tell. I am running a new radiator, all new hoses, water pump, (block was completely acid dipped, magna fluxed, and flushed), and I flushed the heater core till it ran crystal clear. SO, I am expecting it to be greener/cleaner.

Thoughts on that expectation? Or does this look like what you all would expect also???



My next step at this point I guess is to pull the transmission again and see what the dye tells me from inside the flywheel / bell housing area.

My guess is that the block is cracked and it just doesn't show anything to the naked eye. Man, I can't tell you how frustrating this is. I think it took me nearly 6-7 hours to get the transmission and T-case all up in and mounted but at this point I don't know what else to do.

[Gary Lewis]

Bummer!  That's awful.

First, I doubt that there's much if any oil in the coolant. It looks like it is all one type of fluid, and since water and oil don't mix, ....

As for the next step, I think you are right that you'll have to pull the tranny and see what's back there.  Maybe I'm wrong about there being a soft plug in the cooling system back there.  I actually hope so.  But since you have the dye in you should find out.

Hang in there, brother.  It has to be VERY frustrating.  But, this is a hobby so even the frustrations should be some sort of perverted fun.  (I'm preaching to myself.)

[Steve83]

Ferdinand wrote

...coolant leak...
If I have my overflow blocked off right now..., would that build up too much pressure while running and force a leak where there wouldn't normally be one?

It might, assuming no leaks in the system.  But there are no coolant ports or plugs in the back of a 351W block.  Only oil.



The only rear-facing coolant plugs are the bore plugs in the heads.  The head & intake gaskets can leak coolant, but that would be OUTside the bellhousing.  Have you checked what's running down the outside lip of the bellhousing/separator plate?  It would still collect at the bottom of the bellhousing, but not much (if any) would be INSIDE.

Can you buy/rent/borrow/steal a coolant pressure tester?

Gary Lewis wrote

...since water and oil don't mix, ....

...unless there's some other chemical agent allowing them to mix, like a detergent, soap, surfactant, or ALCOHOL (like ethylene glycOL). ;)

[Gary Lewis]

Yes, alcohol could do that.  Hmmm...  In my experience oil has been a layer on top of the coolant.  But, I guess it could mix.