Ferdinand - '85 Bronco 351W XLT "Phoenix" rebuild project...

[Ferdinand]

Thanks guys.

Steve83, I actually have a coolant pressure tester that I used the first two times by Gary's recommendation. (Thank you Gary) It was a much better route since you don't have to dodge a spinning fan while nosing around.

I pushed it up to nearly 20 psi and still could not produce a leak but since the operating psi is much lower than that I didn't want to run the chance of blowing my heater core (trying to use the original.)

I took some pictures of the back of my block and posted them a few pages back but nothing really stood out. Even when pressure testing. I am hoping with the UV dye where ever this thing is leaking the residual should tell me where!

[Ford F834]

Ferdinand wrote

I am sorry to hear about your stubborn leak, and unfortunately I’m not much help with that... looks like others here have some good suggestions though.


I really hope you don’t take this the wrong way... but from the picture it looks like the vehicle is supported by cinder blocks and truly scares me 😱. Not trying to be anyone’s nanny if you are aware of what you are doing and working safely, this is just genuine brotherly concern and wanting to look out for each other. Gary and I had a similar discussion over one of my 4x4 swap photos that looked sketchy. Anyway, just wanting you to be safe and I hope you get that leak solved. It is frustrating now but will be equally satisfying when you fix it.

[Rembrant]

Ferdinand wrote

Sooooo, This is depressing.

My next step at this point I guess is to pull the transmission again and see what the dye tells me from inside the flywheel / bell housing area.

My guess is that the block is cracked and it just doesn't show anything to the naked eye. Man, I can't tell you how frustrating this is. I think it took me nearly 6-7 hours to get the transmission and T-case all up in and mounted but at this point I don't know what else to do.

Doesn't seem like there are many other options at this point, does there?

I know my little 2wd drive is much less work than a 4x4, but after I installed my 5spd earlier this year, I forgot to lube the clutch splines, and had to pull it all out again. Man that sucked...especially working on the floor, without really even having the truck jacked up at all. I spent so much time under the truck this past spring my shoulder has been killing me ever since as a reminder...lol.

I hope you get the leak sorted out OK (and soon).

Do you have one of those little borescope cameras that you could look up behind the ring gear with?

I guess it doesn't matter at this point...if it is still leaking, then it likely has to come apart again.

[Rembrant]

Ferdinand wrote

My guess is that the block is cracked and it just doesn't show anything to the naked eye.

How quickly does it start leaking after you start the engine? I assume that it doesn't leak until after it is up to operating temp and the coolant system is under a little pressure?

Is the rad cap bleeding off? Did we ask this before?

[Gary Lewis]

Those are all good questions.  If the leak doesn't start until after it has run awhile then you are right - let's hope the dye shows something.

And I like the bore scope idea as they aren't terribly expensive.  But can you get it up under there with the engine running, assuming it has to be?  Or, might you be able to see the dye if you had a bore scope and pulled the flywheel cover, supplied a lot of light, and ran it up there w/o the engine running and with the tranny still in place?

On the blocks, pun intended, my father STRONGLY encouraged his boys not to use them.  He had his car up on them and they crushed.  The car came down around him, pinning him but not hurting him.  His little brother was there and would take off running for the house to get their father, then stop and come back to see if his brother was ok.  I guess it was comical in retrospect, but Dad wouldn't let us even think about using blocks.

However, you probably have it worked out and are doing it safely, I'm sure.  

[Ferdinand]

Thanks Ford F834. No worries at all. I am quite thankful that the folks I have "met" on this forum really do seem to have each other's best interests at heart. I do feel quite safe with this set up but I will be adding a treated 2x10 to the top to tie the piers together and to provide some dampening between the frame and the blocks. I welcome any feedback of things to look out for or do better. I was a contractor for about 20 years and I am sure I've picked up plenty of bad habits in that time

Thanks for accompanying me on this quest for sanity. Have a peaceful night sir.

[Ferdinand]

Rembrant,

The engine is dry for about 3-5 minutes and then the leak starts. Slowly at first then develops rather quickly to nearly a steady run.

No "pop-off" at the Cap. Seems to run pretty normal.

Now that I am thinking of it, since I have an extra threaded port on air gap intake, I may just thread a pressure gauge into it for now just to see what the pressure is when operating. I was told it should be somewhere between 8-10 psi. I'd be curious to know for sure what mine is, though I can't imagine why it would be abnormally high?

[Ferdinand]

Gary,

The borescope is a good idea. That is a tool I do not have in the arsenal... I may go shopping
(Please make a recommendation if you know of a good one!)

Though the space between the flywheel and the aluminum plate between the block and bell housing is extremely small. The scope would need to be done with the engine off to be safe.

Right now I am contemplating an adapter to fabricate for the jack I use to raise and lower the transmission and transfer case. If done properly, that adapter could shave at least an hour off the project so I will let you know how that goes.

The cement block story is a serious and comical one. I am really picky about what type and size of block to use and never single stack them. I am sure there are certainly safer methods but it is what I have at the ready. I have been given far too many blessings (5 lovely ladies among the greatest) to be negligent and unsafe, but I have been known to push the envelope a time or two. I really appreciate the concern.

Lord willing, they will only be in use for a few days!!

Our Gospel Meeting started today so while I am excited for the feast of God's Word, that will take up the lion's share of my time this week. My hopes are to tinker a bit each night once the kids go to bed in hopes that I might be ready to pull the transmission by this coming Saturday.

I will keep you posted. I sure am not looking forward to pulling that tranny again but I am pretty anxious and curious to see if the dye sheds some light on the subject!

[Ferdinand]

Found this little gem while searching for some clips for my grille

clipsandfasteners.com

They sure seem to have quite a selection.

[Gary Lewis]

I don't have a bore scope to suggest, but I think Bill/85LebaronT2 does.  Hopefully he will chime in.

And Clips and Fasteners is a good one.  I downloaded their catalog some years ago, but should probably get a new one.

As for the gospel meeting, we haven't done one of those in years - but should.  Did you bring in a guest speaker, have a different speaker each night, or what?  I'm curious as it may be just what we need to do at the church where I'm an elder.

[Ferdinand]

That sounds great Gary. I do hope he chimes in and points me in the right direction.

As far as the meetings go, We have a Spring meeting and a Fall meeting. We bring in a guest speaker and we have them cover bible study and am & pm lessons on Sunday and then each week night at 7pm through Friday. It is a wonderful time and all the local congregations really support each other so it is a great time to "honor the brotherhood".

I would seriously consider it. In a time and culture that tries to keep us busy to the point of dizzy and shoving everything down our throat but the Lord, it is a good time to take a step back and Ps 46:10a!

Glad to hear of you serving as an Elder Gary. Godly men that meet the stringent qualifications are a rare find indeed!

[Gary Lewis]

We, as a brotherhood, used to do meetings frequently.  But I haven't been involved with one in years.  However, we need something as a congregation and perhaps that is it.  Get people to slow down and know Him.  

Anyway, if Bill doesn't chime in I'll rattle his cage.

[Steve83]

Ferdinand wrote

The borescope is a good idea. ...(Please make a recommendation if you know of a good one!)

I'm not actually recommending this since I don't have one yet, but this style is surprisingly affordable (if you have a modern Android phone or tablet):
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B06WRNGYXY

[Ferdinand]

We are also, for the first time, having an in-house winter meeting in late January. It will run Monday-Friday. The elders have selected specific topics and have assigned deacons and men of the congregation to speak on those topics.

I know of a congregation in the Akron area doing a themed meeting on living victoriously for the Lord, where they intend to meet for 8 Thursdays from January-February.

It is a good opportunity to press folks a bit to help them to grow and a meeting like these seems to yield some fruit. I remind people all the time that the greatest times of Christian growth in history came through oppression and adversity. So, why not get out of our comfort zones for a bit.

[Ferdinand]

Thanks Steve83!



I'll let you know how well it works!!

[Gary Lewis]

Having the deacons speak is a good idea for a number of reasons, including learning to speak to the congregation.  Elders frequently need to do that, and it is good to be comfortable doing so.  But it is also good to get them to delivering a message beyond a report on the status of their ministry.  Yes, people need to be pushed out of their comfort zone to grow.

God's plan is for us to grow into something approaching His image, and that requires change.  That's not always comfortable, but it is always necessary.

Anyway, that bore scope should be a big help.  Hopefully you can find the problem.

Speaking of which, I had a thought - perhaps someone put too long of a bolt in a blind hole and cracked the block there.  Or, someone drilled out a stripped bolt hole and went too far.

I say this because Rusty's 351M had a head with an exhaust bolt hole that had been drilled out and in doing so they "hit water".  Bill/85LebaronT2 reminded me that my Chrysler RB 383 has "wet" exhaust bolt holes, meaning that you have to use sealant on them as they go into the water jacket.  So I used sealant and the problem was solved.

Maybe you have a bolt hole that has either been drilled out too far or someone tightened a too-long bolt too much and now there's an opening into the cooling passage.  If so, you can do as I did and use sealant on it.

[Rembrant]

Gary Lewis wrote

Speaking of which, I had a thought - perhaps someone put too long of a bolt in a blind hole and cracked the block there.  Or, someone drilled out a stripped bolt hole and went too far.

I say this because Rusty's 351M had a head with an exhaust bolt hole that had been drilled out and in doing so they "hit water".  Bill/85LebaronT2 reminded me that my Chrysler RB 383 has "wet" exhaust bolt holes, meaning that you have to use sealant on them as they go into the water jacket.  So I used sealant and the problem was solved.

Maybe you have a bolt hole that has either been drilled out too far or someone tightened a too-long bolt too much and now there's an opening into the cooling passage.  If so, you can do as I did and use sealant on it.

My 1984 302 has the "wet" head bolt holes in the block that require sealant. Not sure if this is the case with the taller deck 351 or not? I understand Ford stopped doing this on the 302 at some point, but it's not really clear to me when this happened. I've read that the 5.0 blocks have blind head bolt holes, and the 302 has through holes into the coolant. Was there an official change over date when a 302 legally became a 5.0?...LOL.

Anyway, back to the 351 leak. This sure is an odd one. With no visible leak "up top", it sure is puzzling what is going on inside the bell housing.

The 3-5 minute timeline before it happens makes it sound like something is opening up after it warms up.

Is this thing getting up to full operating temp on the gauge?

Stupid question, but has it been confirmed that the thermostat is opening up?

I guess what seems odd to me is that it is leaking badly enough one would tend to think that the crack would be fairly obvious (if there was one), as they are usually marked by some residue or rust, etc. If it's building up enough pressure to push through a crack, it should also be pushing out through the rad cap too, shouldn't it? Unless it's a big crack...

Anyway, one last thought...

What exactly happens when one or both of the head gaskets are installed backwards? I remember reading of this SBF issue in the past, but I forget exactly what problem occurs when this happens. Doesn't it cause severe overheating in one or a couple cylinders? What would be the result if this were the case?

[Steve83]

Ferdinand wrote

I'll let you know how well it works!!

Wow - that's about 2x as much $ as the one I linked.  Yeah, I'm curious to know how it does for you.

BTW
My computer crashed this morning & apparently has some nasty virus, so I may go incommunicado for while...  I'm shopping for a new system (this one is quite old).

[Ferdinand]

I did opt for one with a bit more user reviews (not that you can always trust that either) but I think the cost comes from the wireless option, which I’m not sure if it really matters. I just thought with all the tech manufactures always switching up their ports and plug ins, I might be better off with a wireless version. The jury is still out on that for sure.

Good luck on the hunt for a new computer!

Jamie Helmick

740.359.8865
Proverbs 3:5-7

On Nov 12, 2018, at 11:47 AM, Steve83 [via Bullnose Enthusiasts] <[hidden email]> wrote:

Ferdinand wrote

I'll let you know how well it works!!

Wow - that's about 2x as much $ as the one I linked.  Yeah, I'm curious to know how it does for you.

BTW
My computer crashed this morning & apparently has some nasty virus, so I may go incommunicado for while...  I'm shopping for a new system (this one is quite old).

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[Gary Lewis]

I think it is wise to future-proof the investment. Apple shire three people a curve with the Lightning connector.

Steve - What kind of computer are you looking at?  Just curious.