MAJOR ANNOUNCEMENT ABOUT MIGRATION - PLEASE READ

[Gary Lewis]

WE ARE MOVING, IF WE CAN FUND IT!

Guys - we have a winner on our hunt for a new forum platform to use - InVision. It provides all of the features we've been wanting/needing, and then some. You can see a test implementation of it here, thanks to Chris: InVision Test Forum.

However, there's a cost of $1800 to take our 7 years of history with us, and we really need to do that. So I'm asking y'all how we can fund this one-time expense. (There will be an ongoing expense of less than $100/mo which we will work out later.)

I am not wanting you to commit on this thread to support it with X$. Instead I'm asking how we can set up a fund, like GoFundMe or somesuch, in order to raise the money. What is the best approach? Who has done it?

Once we are within reach of that goal I can sign a contract with InVision and they'll write the code and migrate our history over. That will probably take a few attempts, but once they get it right we'll need to take a backup, lock the Nabble forum, and then have them migrate us. It is supposed to come over with everything but your password, so you'll just have to reset your p/w on the first login. (I know it won't be that clean, but we can hope.)

[Gsmblue]

Fantastic news.

I have never set up a "go fund me", but that does seem to be a good idea.

I would be happy to pay an annual subscription in support of this community too. Maybe we can have nice little additions to our profiles for "sponsors of the forum", like medals showing the sponsorship level or some such?

[ckuske]

Without getting into analysis paralysis, I think GoFundMe is a good way to go.

I'd say set up one fundraiser for the migration, and then each year, set up a 2024 Site Costs fund, next year a 2025 Site Costs fund, etc...

[essmaker]

Gofundme would be the easiest path.

However...while it would require more work...I would be happy to pay double or triple or whatever the cost would be for a hat. If we could find a decent source that would imprint your logo on one, that would be a cool way to raise funds for this onetime expense and even after.

Just a thought.

[Gary Lewis]

I've not done a GoFundMe but will check into it, both for the migration and the annual costs.

But, as I think about it, we need to figure out how to gauge how much we can raise - before we raise it.  In other words, lets say that we only raise $500 for the migration vs the $1800 cost.  I don't want people to have put their money into an account and then find out we can't get there.

So is there a way to way to discretely get an idea from each of you how much you'd be willing to do for the migration?  Would that be best done via email to me?  Not a commitment at all, but a "here's what I think I would like to donate".

Thoughts?  Better ways?  I'm all eyes.  

But if you want to email me do so at [e-mail].  Again, I'm not looking for a commitment but a guestimate.  And I'm not ready for the money.  We just need to know how much we can raise.

[ckuske]

For polling, I think a Google Forms may be a way to go?  I know they can be made anonymous.

I thought if you didn't reach your goal in GoFundMe, you could give the money back easily, but I think I'm wrong after looking at their site.  Maybe Kickstarter is another way to go there.

[Gary Lewis]

Chris - I'll check out Google Forms.  Thanks.  And Kickstarter says "Kickstarter’s all-or-nothing funding model ensures that if you reach or surpass your goal, you’ll receive your funds, minus our 5% fee."  So they'd take $90 out of the $1800, which isn't bad.  It sounds like that may be a good way to go, but I'll keep looking a bit.

Gsmblue - I forgot to respond on the badge thing.  InVision has the ability to do that, but what I don't want to do is to put any pressure on people.  We have some very dedicated people who are struggling to fix their own trucks so may not have any money to contribute.  But their daily contribution of time and knowledge is a major contributor to the success of this forum so I don't want to miss that.

But the InVision forum has all kinds of badges that can be applied, so perhaps we can come up with a combination that rewards those that give money as well as those that give time.

[Gary Lewis]

Reading up on Kickstarter I see that you can start a project as an individual or an entity, either business or non-profit.  I'm thinking I may need to set up a non-profit so we can have clear accountability of the funds, meaning that we don't mix them with our personal funds.

Fortunately our son is a tax lawyer so I'll consult with him about how to set a non-profit up and see what it'll cost and how long it'll take.  But I wonder if we could do the Kickstarter for the migration as an individual and then form the non-profit for the long term with the monthly fees.

Does anyone have any ideas?  Experience?

[ckuske]

Hi Gary,

That's a good idea, and an even better connection to have!   I don't have any direct personal experience, but my brother-in-law has a 501(c)(3) for his high school basketball team.  It didn't seem too difficult to set up.

[BigBrother-84]

Gary Lewis wrote

But the InVision forum has all kinds of badges that can be applied, so perhaps we can come up with a combination that rewards those that give money as well as those that give time.

I think that emphasize and highlight the contribution for the time given by some members to help others and generously share their knowledge is a nice idea.

But, personally, I suggest that money contribution should stay discreet, big donators don’t need to be under the spotlight.
Nobody has to feel “cheap” for a small donation.  Any dime will be welcome, big or small.
This is not a popularity contest…

[ArdWrknTrk]

I'm kinda between a rock and a hard place here Gary.  

While I'd usually be glad to throw a couple of Franklins your way, as you know I've been laid up -out of work- AND hemorrhaging $ to put my diff back together ( ~2k worth of stuff for a truck that's worth $500)

I'll do what I can, but I'm not sure how substantial that may be.  

Have you considered just opening a Gmail address like "[e-mail]" and using that a as PayPal and Venmo account?
That would make it super easy for anyone on this planet with a smartphone.  
Currency exchange is baked in and there are no fees, if it's a "gift"...

Sure it leaves the onus on you, but I don't know any member that doesn't trust you implicitly

[Gary Lewis]

Jeff - I'm with you.  Well said.

Jim - Your time & your knowledge is more cherished than your money.  Please don't worry about it at all.

As for the way to get the money to me, Paypal has been deducting when I send money to my kids, so we've gone to Venmo - which is owned by Paypal but hasn't deducted.

But it isn't just the movement of the money.  Instead, the first question was if we can raise the money and I wanted the answer to that before we started moving it.  So that's why I've been looking at Kickstarter as people pledge and then, if you reach the goal, Kickstarter sucks the money in from them and sends it to you - minus 5%.

But in the background I've been getting notes from y'all that indicate we will be able to do this.  So I'm not sure Kickstarter will be needed.

Just got off the phone with my son, the tax lawyer.  He said I need to set up a non-profit through which to wash all of the one-time and on-going funds.  And I'll have to pay taxes on it, which gets factored into the math to end up showing no profit.

So now I'm researching what it takes to set up a non-profit, how to track expenditures, what is needed for tax purposes, etc.  We set up one for church a few years ago and I'll talk to the people who did that and get their input.  

[viven44]

This is a perfect example of how "nothing is free in this world" and I am happy to always contribute to keeping it real!

Having said that, the $100/mo ongoing would easily be paid up if we allow ads. Sponsorship may not be up my alley as it may force bias, etc. But ads are benign. Any revenue from ads will pay ongoing expenditure, and perhaps even fund events.

[ArdWrknTrk]

Setting up a non-profit is not without it's own expenses. (Like incorporating and filing with the State Department of Revenue Services, at least here in CT)
You usually need a Lawyer to file it too.   

Man, I'm telling you, if you send as a "Gift" there's no percentage to PP/Vmo.

Wether this is a one time ask or an ongoing thing to cover admin/server costs, nobody's going to bat an eyelash at ~$1500. (that used to be a Friday night for me.  )

NONE of us are worried that you are going to embezzle the funds and run to Thailand.
Just make up an email, like [e-mail] and get on with it.

I will send whatever I may have, when the time comes.
Right now I have $0.08 in the bank and a single dollar in my wallet...

Who knows where I am tomorrow?

[ArdWrknTrk]

Screw ads and sponsors.
That's 80% the reason we're here and NOT there!

I'm completely sick of getting served someone else's 🐂 every time I open my phone.  😡

[Gary Lewis]

Vivek - Thanks, but I want this site to be free of adverts.  That's been a stated goal since I started it.

There are several reasons for that.  First, when I was on FTE I was rewarded for being a chapter leader by having the annoying adverts turned off.  Got used to that and then FTE let that perk go w/o asking or telling us and I was quickly reminded how annoying they were.  (And quickly realized how impossible it was to work with FTE.)

Second, I used to listen to a gospel radio "station" on the internet who struggled paying the bills and turned adverts on.  Many of those were anything but Christian, so I called the station and they said that once they turned them on they had no control whatsoever of what adverts would run.

So I've already told my kids that when I die and they come to manage this that there are to be no adverts.  Which brings up a point - I need to figure out as I set up this non-profit how to have others involved so there can be a transfer when the time comes.

[ArdWrknTrk]

My great uncles were contract lawyers for Cities Service.
That's why they moved to the Tulsa area in the late seventies when Citgo move from New York to Tulsa..

Broken Arrow was a brand new and upscale subdivision back then...

But Jim would tell me a lot about contracts and how they're written.
I never followed him to Yale, because I was pretty disinterested in the business world.

[Gary Lewis]

Our son, Bret, is a tax lawyer for a major company.  And the lady I just spoke to about this was a tax accountant for a major company.  Both of them deal/dealt with billions and not hundreds of dollars.  But, the idea is the same.

She said that I should set up a non-profit so I don't have to account for this money in our personal finances.  But not necessarily a 501(c)(3).  And that if the entity doesn't have any employees it doesn't have to file taxes.

So she and I are going to research what the options are for a non-profit.  And I'm going to document what the costs are for what we have as well as where we are going.

Guess I won't be posting what I've done to Big Blue very often.  But I think now is the time to make this happen.  Janey's stents last week & the tornado that missed us by 12 miles have awakened me to just how tenuous life is, so I need to get this sorted.

[mat in tn]

this is starting to feel like a pre-planned funeral. I know in my heart that you are trying to preserve not only the information this shares but the community also. as is with all things, projects grow and the bigger they get the harder they get to maintain, and at some point, the acceptance of something you would not have accepted yesterday gets considered. this is how many things we "enjoy" today have come about yet there is always a cost. that cost is often the tolerance of compromising one's core beliefs.
 I guess the big point to consider is "does it need to grow to stay viable"?
has it not grown well enough for the tech that it is operating on? if it grows another year will the cost to move increase? I am NOT a tech guy and know next to nothing about that side of it, happy to have participated as well as I have, still have issues. heck ten years ago I couldn't even spell geeemail.

[Gary Lewis]

Mat - This isn't a funeral but a new beginning.

And yes, it needs to change to stay viable.  Not necessarily to grow.  That's because our forum is on Nabble, which is going to go away at some point.  We aren't paying anything and the proprietor, Franklin, has let me know he will shut it down at some point in time.  And given what I have seen, he will do so w/o any notice.  (I'm not complaining as that is certainly his right.)

So we must go somewhere and we've done the research and testing and have settled on InVision.  We know the cost to move our existing forum there and, while it is significant, it won't get any cheaper over time.  So we should go now to keep the cost as low as possible, enjoy the benefits of the new environment longer, and not wake up some day to the place being shut down.