Big Blue's Transformation

[85lebaront2]

Jim, they do pivot, the right side belt originally drove a smoke grinder and the alternator and is adjusted at the alternator (note the slot in the upper bracket in the pictures). I drilled and tapped mine 3/8-16 and use one of Ford's nice flange head bolts with the serrated flange face.

[ArdWrknTrk]

D'oh!
I see the polygroove pulley and the tensioner, and I don't think.

[Gary Lewis]

No prob, Jim.  Yes, this one has to pivot as that is the belt adjustment.

Ok, here are some measurements on the alternator and the arm:

Hole In Alternator: .398"

Slot In Arm: .482"

And here are measurements on bolts I have, with the smaller measurement being the root of the threads and the larger the top:

3/8":

.330"

.370

10MM:

.347

.386

7/16":

.378

.430

12MM:

.418

.463

The only bolt that is going to have full engagement is a 12mm.  I checked and it will pass through the slot of the arm with about .020" clearance.

Am I better off using a nut?  Or Helicoil it?  Or use a different alternator?

[ArdWrknTrk]

First, you never want 100% thread unless it needs to be vacuum tight.
Even aerospace bolts don't go much beyond 75% (although, there are different classes of fit for both taps and dies.

Second, unless you really want to fight yourself and invent new off color words, you do NOT want a nut.
Holding a pry bar for tension and a wrench to tighten the adjuster is already enough.
Trying to keep it tight AND work two wrenches is asking for defeat.

Tap the ear, or Helicoil it.
Neither takes long, nor is it difficult.

ETA; I'd go with 3/8-16 because it is what's present on the 1G & 2G alternators these trucks came with.

[Gary Lewis]

Been there, done that on the pry bar, bolt, and nut.  Which is why I want to tap it.  But, 7/16" or 12mm?  I'm thinking 7/16" will do.  But maybe 7/16-20.

[ArdWrknTrk]

I wouldn't, but I'm not you.
That alloy isn't the toughest and it does take a nice thread.

If it were me I'd put the Helicoil and be glad for the tougher stainless threads in the ear of my alternator.

[1986F150Six]

Gary Lewis wrote

And here's what the engine looks like with the PC'd parts gently installed:

 Ummm… too pretty to use!

[ArdWrknTrk]

1986F150Six wrote

Ummm… too pretty to use!

"Another trailer queen?"


Gary's brother knows him pretty well, doesn't he?  

[Gary Lewis]

Hadn't thought about the alloy.  And I assume you meant "it doesn't take a nice thread".  So I'll get a Helicoil.  Thanks.

[Gary Lewis]

ArdWrknTrk wrote

1986F150Six wrote

Ummm… too pretty to use!

"Another trailer queen?"


Gary's brother knows him pretty well, doesn't he?  

No and yes, in that order.  

Part of the "pretty" is to prove to my son it is a new engine and will NOT leak.  He's been all over me like stink on skunk that I can't take Big Blue off road because it leaks oil.  As late as last night he said "It won't leak oil, right?"  So if he can see a shiny engine, albeit beneath all of the accoutrements associated with EFI, he'll realize it is new and doesn't leak.

Another part of it is that I like assembling things that are "new".  Pretty.  Not rusty.  So this is fun for me, and after all, that's what a hobby is all about.

[Gary Lewis]

There are several lengths of Helicoils, from .375" to 1.125".  But the one I keep finding in stock has the .562" coil in this kit from Amazon.

Given the alloy, is a .562 long coil going to provide enough bite on the alternator?

[ArdWrknTrk]

The alloy threads nicely, but it crumbles like cast iron, not raising a chip.

Fine threads and for developing more clamping force for a given torque, or .xxx" per revolution for indication, like a 20 pitch thread would give you.

It's important that both tails of the insert end inside the hole.
The sharp ends are supposed to keep it in place.

Look. You should never tighten that bolt enough to strip it.
But the Helicoil gives peace of mind that it will not have a corroded thread and can be r&r'd many times.

Me? I would make it 3/8-16.
There are hundreds of millions (if not billions) of cars that never had any problem

[Gary Lewis]

Jim - I'd already decided on 3/8-16.  But my question was on the length of the Helicoil insert.  They are supposedly available several lengths, but all I'm finding for quick delivery are the .562" length.  And since the tab on the alternator is .840" thick I was wondering if it would be better to find a longer insert - like the .750".

I just ordered the .562" version.  And it will be easy to make sure that both tails end inside the hole.

[ArdWrknTrk]

Ok.
12 hours previous I thought you were going 7/16-20?

[Gary Lewis]

ArdWrknTrk wrote

Ok.
12 hours previous I thought you were going 7/16-20?

Maybe.  I don't remember.  

Anyway, I got about two dozen more things blasted and PC'd, inc the fuel rails.  I had a fleeting thought of just buying in new rails, but when they came in between $150 and $200 I decided to PC them.  Took a bit of time to get them well blasted given all the nooks and crannies, and then to ensure there was powder everywhere, but they turned out pretty good.  Pics in a bit.

But, I had to remove the nylon fuel lines between the two sides and now I need to find the right replacement hose.  I had assumed that either the 1/4" return or the 5/16" supply from a Dorman repair kit would work, but no dice.  The smaller line isn't about to go and the larger line is too large.

The pieces that came off with a bit of heat have an inner liner, as you can see below.  And the ID of the liner measures about 9/32", which I can't find so far on the interweb.  But 9/32" equates to 7.14 mm, so maybe these are 7mm?

Here's a pic of the 1/4 line on the bottom, the two lines I removed, and the 5/16" on the top:




And, here are pics of the PC'd rails in place w/o the connecting lines nor injectors:

[Gary Lewis]

I found this regarding the tubing that ties the fuel rails together:

Ford Muscle Forums/Ford Fuel Rail Rehab: I don't like the way he removes the old hose with a wire wheel as it is so easy to get the old tubing off with a heat gun.  Anyway, he recommends fuel injection hose rated SAE J30R9 in 1/4" size, and he uses EFI hose clamps.  Plus, he lubes the inside of the hose with engine oil.

So, if 1/4" hose is right, then maybe I can get that 1/4" nylon line on?  Think I'll give it a try.

[ArdWrknTrk]

According to this:  https://www.freelin-wade.com/high-pressure-nylon-tubing.html#1

Rated to 200* F, so a plunge in boiling water would probably be the answer to getting it on.

[Gary Lewis]

Thanks.  Don't know what the Dorman stuff that I have is rated to, pressure or temp, but it is marketed for use in the FI systems.  In fact, I think Ray and I used it on his '86 years ago.  And I've used it on other trucks, including Big Blue.

But I don't use boiling water.  I just use my heat gun, cautiously.  I've not had any melting or other problems, so will give that a try after a couple of cups of Joe.  

[Gary Lewis]

Oh yes, there's no mention on that site of 9/32" tubing.  So I'm guessing that the original tubing is 1/4" but didn't fully return to that size after all these years.

[85lebaront2]

I would be a little concerned about using tubing only rated to 200° F underhood on a 460. I am pretty damn sure that summer, A/C on in traffic Darth's underhood temp gets well over the, overheat mode on the EEC-V advances the timing and raises the idle, then if that doesn't bring it down in tolerance, kills the A/C compressor. So far I have only had it happen one time stuck in heavy creeping traffic in Portsmouth VA approaching the Downtown Tunnel. Never got to the A/C shut-off, but I was putting it in N everytime the light cycle caught me. I think that that is set around 205° F but it may be even hotter. That is based on the ECT measurement and possibly may use the ACT to determine the underhood temp.