Time for A/C Rebuild

[AmericanSavage]

OK, I need the intellect of the group.  I am venturing into water I have not worked.
Background:  As many know in my restore build—my 351m came with a bunch of rusted A/C parts (accumulator/evaporator) no compressor (and no brackets) and I think the condensor on the front grill is ok—I do not know though for sure)

I stripped the remaining A/C from the truck and left the condensor.

When I bought my spare 351m, it had the compressor bracket E0TH 19d624.  Now that summer is upon us (in NC anyway) I am thinking of rebuilding the A/C system.  

The only thing missing is what is called the A/C brace, and idler pulley.  

Section 197.1 p. 15 notes the (I believe my system was an integrated one) part group is 19D894 or 2888.  P 42 of section 190 notes that the part group is actually 19D896.  For 1980-1982 the part number is D7OZ 2888-B .  I was happy to find this is also the part number for the 351W.  

I found the idler pulley that should work here.

So I can find the main bracket pretty easily—a year or two ago I could not.  

And I could never find the brace/support bracket..that is until now.  So here is one.  I am a little shy to pull the trigger because I am not sure.  

I have found the compressor at RockA, and the rest of the parts are easily found on multiple part sites.  The hoses however, are another matter.  I cannot seem to find the OEM fit hoses.

So I throw myself on the court for any information/advice you might have for me.  

Fuzzface, I know you know a ton about this stuff, and would love to pick your brain as I proceed.

BTW, I also seem to now need to buy that blend door 3d print—Mine has finally failed to deliver Defrost air.  oy.

Thanks for listening everyone.

[grumpin]

I think you'll do fine!

First it's not black magic, it's a enclosed pump system.

Get a vacuum pump and gauges, you need to evacuate the system and without gauges you're guessing, I've never guessed right!

A heated servicer is awesome, only used one when the employer supplied it. Someone taught me to use a bucket with warm water, not hot, lukewarm, and when you're servicing it with the cans from an auto parts store, most of the can will go in, use the bucket of warm water to coax the rest out. Helps to slowly swirl the can in the warm water.

Use the correct pressure to service the system. I have found that if you find out how many pounds it takes and service that amount the pressure will be on or close.

Be patient.

Not enough pressure and it won't work properly, too much pressure and it won't work properly. More is not better.

I had to start over wit the 86 I had. When I got all the brackets, I even bought a wasted compressor from the junkyard for the fittings and the test fit.

You can buy cleaner for the A/C system for the lines and condenser and evaporator, but I always had success with Isopropyl alcohol and compressed air. I use a squirt bottle and spray it in the lines and blow it out with compressed air.

Always use a new Receiver/Dryer and filter.

When you get it all together and sealed up, pull a vacuum for 45 minutes to an hour, I like to go an hour for a warm fuzzy! Shut off the vacuum and let it sit for another hour to leak check it, you might drop a little vacuum at first.

Then use that vacuum to pull on the first can. You will more than likely have to jumper the pressure switch complete the service. A smaller system (like a 4Runner I had) might pull in enough to make the pressure switch, I doubt your truck will.

Put in the pounds of refrigerant and monitor the pressure.

Also a thermometer to check the vents is helpful, what doesn't feel cool enough to me will be 38 degrees!

[grumpin]

I forgot some links!

I have these and they work fine for me.

https://www.harborfreight.com/25-cfm-vacuum-pump-61245.html

https://www.harborfreight.com/r134a-ac-manifold-gauge-set-58776.html

Edit to add this, I got one at Autozone, but I think this will be fine. Gives you better control while changing cans and such.

https://www.harborfreight.com/r134a-self-sealing-ac-refrigerant-can-tap-valve-58638.html

[viven44]

Watch out while replacing the orifice tube (filter). The filter installs onto a long neck and while removing the nuts to that next oftentimes the neck is bent just slightly, and it makes removing and installing the filter more difficult than it needs to be.

Oreilly has the best deal on that orifice tube. 10 pack for $8!! I wasted like 2 of them trying to install once

https://www.oreillyauto.com/detail/c/murray-climate-control/air-conditioning---heating/orifice-tube/9fafe9a5178b/murray-climate-control-blue-a-c-orifice-tube/mryp/621/v/a/5316/automotive-truck-1984-ford-f-250?q=orifice+tube&pos=3

[AmericanSavage]

Thank you to everyone who commented!

[dirtymac]

My husband found this video on Youtube and we've watched it a couple of times.  Overall, I think the content is great but it may be lacking a few details or specifics.  We have an 82 F250 and the setup looks basically the same as the 86 in the video.  I'm not sure about yours, but the video explains a lot of the parts under the hood.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?app=desktop&si=UsbeOt0ncWQu78i7&v=gEl-cjawiGI&feature=youtu.be

[FuzzFace2]

Wow you think I know a lot

A little of a lot of things

But when it comes to the AC I dont know if you want me to help as I cant seam to keep mine working more than a year
I am almost to the point of farming out the AC so if it fails again I can take it back for them to fix again right this time.

I will say use oil on the O-rings when installing them, check and recheck all fittings if tight.
I have pulled vacuum many times for an hour and let sit the same and it held but still loss charge as I did not re-check the fittings

I also had the charge ports leak so use caps with seals on them.
Dave ----

[AmericanSavage]

Hi Dave,

Thanks for the advice. I really appreciate.  

Here is where I am so far:

Got the brace today, and it seems like it bolts into the water pump.  

I am not sure of the belt position going forward.  It LOOKS LIKE I will need a 2-3 groove pulley on the water pump/fan.  Can anyone confirm that?  I think 351w and m are same pulley in this regard.  NO a/c pulleys from what I can tell from the MPC, is only a single belt.  I think the with A/C/ pulleys are at least 2?  And, mine is a single belt pulley.  But, just imagining how it will all fit it looks like I need a 2-3


The tension pulley is on the way.


I have found 2 hoses--from Evap to condenser (widely available even from LMC!) And the compressor to the condenser---with High pressure valve built in.  The hose from compressor to Accumulator/dryer I CANNOT find.

I have decided to change the condenser--it is rather rusty, so off it comes.  It looks like I can pull it from the grill side????

OK, that's as far as I have gotten for now.  

[FuzzFace2]

Sorry to say I cant help on the brackets or pulleys for a v8 motor.
But on the 300 6 the water pump is a 2 groove. Lucky the crank was a 3 groove.

On the hoses I also had a little issue because I am using a newer type compressor but older drier / evap and the hoses are different both the fitting ends and how they run in the engine bay.
I looked in to having hoses made but would have needed to come up with the fittings.

I then looked into buying a hose kit, hose & fittings.
That brought up the need to crimp the fittings onto the hose.
The tool was not that much but to only use it for 1 time just did not seam like the way to go.

I was able to find hoses that worked even if 1 did not run the right way.
I did have to reused 1 hose. Forget what one but 1 end is on the condenser.
Dave ----

[mat in tn]

I seem to have the same truck. mine is all original and all intact. if need be I can try to get pics of mounting points and brackets for reference.
as to sealing and charging that's a different matter. rare it is that one does not leak. these are a very compromised design. refrigerators are soldered sealed at the factory. central home systems are soldered sealed at the factory all except test and service ports. window a/c units are also factory soldered sealed. ironically this is a requirement due in part by epa and dot regulations yet the truck carrying the equipment does not have to meet the same. hoses crimped onto ridgid aluminum tubing to allow flex then held in place with a threaded fitting holding an o ring. along with a semi hermetic compressor with a seal akin to a    water pump seal to hold high pressure vapor. too many chances for a leak.
if you are starting with a new compressor then I suggest replacing the entire sealed system. compressor, condenser, evaporator, accumulator drier, all hoses etc. also the cycle switch is a component screwed onto a Schraeder valve service port. these are sealed by a very thin o ring and are known for leaks. not to be a downer just that there are so many places for a vapor as thin as refrigerant to seep.
 now comes the fun part. how to charge an r12 system with a substitute. a fellow a/c tech recently gave me a raving review of one something like "enviro safe" although he did mention "flammable" on the label.

[AmericanSavage]

Dave,

Thanks for this.  I am at the point, where I am going to have to figure out something to do about the hoses.  I looked again today and the hoses I thought were for F series, were for the E series.  ONE might work—the compressor to condenser hose (with the high pressure valve).  

All I know if I am going to have to be creative.  What a mess I got myself into!

My crank pulley is 3 groove. But there are options for not all that expensive for the pump pulley if I need to switch it out.  

Everything will be new, and so all prepared for R134—Depending on the hoses, I may need an adatper.  But I see those fittings are not too scarce…if I recall.  

I hope you figure out your system Dave.  I remember how much you put into it, and with experience like you have, comes a wealth of info

Matt:  thank you for the helpful words.  I would love to see your set up.  Do send if you get a chance.  The MPC and LIGHT are helpful, but not exactly conclusive in the diagrams.  I found one for the Clevelant, and if that is the setup of the 351m, then I do not need a multi belt pulley, but I just cannot see how that will work at the moment.  It might take getting it mostly put together.

[mat in tn]

I keep that truck at the shop and if the rain allows, I will try to get pics Wednesday.

[mat in tn]

if you would like I can email the pics that I took today and get more specific it that helps too. if I send directly from my phone then you could edit or zoom better than posted here.

[AmericanSavage]

mat in tn wrote

if you would like I can email the pics that I took today and get more specific it that helps too. if I send directly from my phone then you could edit or zoom better than posted here.

Do you need my number?  I can send.  Should I post it here?  I know Gary has it.


You are the best Matt!

[Gary Lewis]

I'll email the two of you so you are connected.  (Another reason we must MOVE!)

[AmericanSavage]

UPDATE:

OK, so I have hit a wall on many of the hoses.  I am considering building my own.  However, this one looks promising for the compressor-condenser.  

That leaves the suction line from compressor-Evap.  

Either way, I have to be creative. I am thinking I will have to create the lines.  So, I went to Vintage Air and started to look around--I had no idea they had brackets for our trucks, and not just for A/c but for the Saginaw pump conversion.  Pretty sweet.

The A/C bracket they sell looks like a modified DEALER bracket from the MPC.

Anyway, will be looking at refrigerant hose, and fittings now.  What a hot, but fun, mess I got myself into.

Cheers Everyone.

[FuzzFace2]

I came relly close to doing the same thing with my truck.
Mine being a 81 with factory AC but I swapped compressors to the newer type and that made the hose fittings not work.

I was able to get hoses from Auto Zone to work, had to reuse 1 old one, condenser to evap IIRC, but the rest were new.

The thing that stopped me from making my own was crimping the fitting on as I would need to buy the tool and only use it the 1 time. It was cheap enough but .....
Dave ----

[AmericanSavage]

FuzzFace2 wrote

I came relly close to doing the same thing with my truck.
Mine being a 81 with factory AC but I swapped compressors to the newer type and that made the hose fittings not work.

I was able to get hoses from Auto Zone to work, had to reuse 1 old one, condenser to evap IIRC, but the rest were new.

The thing that stopped me from making my own was crimping the fitting on as I would need to buy the tool and only use it the 1 time. It was cheap enough but .....
Dave ----

Hey Dave,

Have you seen the new EZ Clip version from Vintage Air?  I am going to make 1 or 2 hoses with that!  Very easy, crimp tool is not as expensive (knock offs are cheap on the Jungle site), and you can reuse the clips and reorient the fitting.  Check it out!

[AmericanSavage]

Today I got the condenser in, and the A/C bracket on.  

Let me just say, they sure don’t make things like they used to.  The compressor I took off had to be the original.  It was beefy, and had support brackets around the fittings.  This one?  Really wimpy by comparison.  No place to reinstall the brackets.  

Oh also, since I was there, put the new fan shroud in I picked up from Dennis carpenter.  Supreme fit.

Anyway, here are a couple pics:

[AmericanSavage]

So last night I did not sleep well.  The A/c compressor set up bugged me.  I could not stop thinking about it.

Did not want to do lazy crap work……..

So instead of getting to the evap cannister tear and replace, I took the old brackets and fabbed them a little to brace the compressor fittings areas.  Here is what I did.  The driver wide is far more sturdy than pass side.  But it helps.