Old Blue - 1984 XL Flareside

[Gary Lewis]

If that's the bolt I think it is and goes all the way through the timing cover and into a little open spot on the back, how about using a longer bolt with a nut on the back?  It isn't the factory way, but tension is tension.

[Machspeed]

I replaced my original OEM water pump this past Summer. In the process broke one bolt off in the block and another in the timing chain cover. I got lucky on several of the other bolts, working them slowly after soaking with PB Blaster and even using heat. Lots of corrosion in there. Having said all that, I always chase the threads and use an anti-seize product as Jim mentioned.

Another thing, there are like 5-6 different bolt sizes that go into the water pump to secure it. You don't want to mix those up. If you look on the web, you'll find lots of chatter on that subject with pictures of the specific bolts and their respective sizes and locations.

I'm curious as to why you just didn't go ahead and remove the timing chain cover and inspect the timing chain while you were there? Maybe I missed that in another thread.  

[ArdWrknTrk]

John, when I'm replacing a water pump I flip open the lid and make a rough sketch with sharpie, then poke a slot with a utility knife at each bolt location.

As the bolts come out I stick them through the cardboard lid.
I run them through the wire wheel one at a time so they can't get mixed up.
Then they get hit with Primer-T before Loctite PST on reinstall.

[Machspeed]

Jim, that is exactly what I did, step by step!  

[ArdWrknTrk]

Saves any confusion about which bolt goes where.  

[ckuske]

So I used a longer bolt from the previous set, and it grabbed.  Same thread pitch as the new bolt, just longer.  It sticks out about 1/4" past the hole in the timing cover, but there's nothing there so that's OK.

I did keep them in order (or at least I thought?!), so I'm not sure what the deal is. All I can figure is perhaps it was installed incorrectly last time???

I've ordered some longer stainless bolts, so I'll swap this out later before I install the fan, etc.  Next step is painting the frame where the Rad support goes with some paint I have coming from Eastwood.

I feel a lot better now than where I was last night.

[ckuske]

John,

Good question, I guess two things for me.  

A) The engine was rebuilt about 25,000 miles ago, so I figured it should be fine.

B) I'm still a bit nervous in the service about taking things off that I don't have to.  This is the first water pump I've ever done. First gasket ever, too.  Gotta start somewhere, but I thought taking the timing cover off and trying to get it back on and sealed up tight was something else that could go wrong and I didn't want to take the chance.  I'm getting more confident, but still being conservative for now.

Thanks for the asking the question, it's totally valid.  These are the things I'm learning as I get more proficient, and I know for next time.  

[ArdWrknTrk]

Chris, I'm really glad you've got it holding now!  
I'm not sure why the other one wouldn't, if you could feel it from the back side?

Those frame horns where the radiator support bushings go are always a weak spot.
Good you are getting after them while you can.

[ckuske]

I couldn’t feel that bolt from the back side. On the hole that *did* bite, I couldnt feel it from the back either I don’t know. 

I just ordered a bolt 1/4” longer than the stainless one I had, should do the trick. 

On Sun, Feb 14, 2021 at 10:52 AM ArdWrknTrk [via Bullnose Enthusiasts Forum] <[hidden email]> wrote:

Chris, I'm really glad you've got it holding now!  
I'm not sure why the other one wouldn't, if you could feel it from the back side?

Those frame horns where the radiator support bushings go are always a weak spot.
Good you are getting after them while you can.

 Jim,
Lil'Red is a '87 F250 HD, 4.10's, 1356 4x4, Zf-5, 3G, PMGR, Saginaw PS, desmogged with a Holley 80508 and Performer intake.
Too much other stuff to mention.

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[ckuske]

I got my bumper and miscellaneous trim off, so I'm getting ready to start prepping the frame before painting with Eastwood Chassis Primer/Paint.  I was hoping you guys could help me with a few questions:

Is there any inside knowledge I should know about removing the fender aprons?
Do they come out pretty easily if you remove the screws in the wheel well and near the door?
Also, has anyone painted these?
Any suggestions on a recommended paint to spruce them up?
And finally, my screws have been painted over so it's hard to tell if they are screws with a straight screwdriver slot or need a hex driver.  What tools do I need to remove them?

I also just thought I'd post a progress photo, still cleaning and dressing up the engine but it's looking better.

[Gary Lewis]

There are usually several things attached to the fender liners, like the ignition module, battery tray, vacuum reservoir, etc.  So those have to come out/off first.

As for the little screws, Big Blue has hex headed screws on the driver's side and Phillips on the passenger's side.  Go figure.  And the hex head is small, and I'll confess I never really figured out what it is.  But a 7mm socket worked.  

Haven't painted them, yet, so can't recommend anything.  But I'd assume that version of SEM black would be good.

And, things are looking GOOD!  But while you are that far in I'd recommend that you pull the steering box loose and check behind it.  In Dad's truck's case the frame was cracked and I didn't know it.  So I'd check it out.  And while you are there check the Huck bolt where the engine crossmember meets the frame right behind the steering box.  But of my trucks had a loose Huck bolt that was probably the cause of the popping I was hearing on Big Blue.

[ckuske]

Thanks Gary, it feels good to step back and look it over, you don't notice the changes always as you're going!

Yep, I got the windshield washer reservoir out, and the battery/tray.  

The driver side is clear now, just gotta liberate the some stuff on the passenger side.  (Vacuum reservoir, the coffee can thing... the name of which escapes me and a few other miscellaneous).  I might as well pull out the original bottle jack and tire iron out (never been used to my knowledge) and try to fix those up as well.  I've been using this rust remover called Evaporust.  It's knocked off a lot of rust and it doesn't have a bunch of harsh stuff in it... wasn't sure if I believed it at first but it did great on my water pump pulley for instance.

I have some SEM Trim Black that I used for my radio bezel (I'll post pictures of that soon), so maybe I'll give that a go.  I'm not sure how it will deal with heat, but at least it's on the periphery of the engine bay.

Thanks for the tip on the socket, I'll order one from Amazon (~$3).  And I'll check out the steering box area and make sure all is secure!

[ArdWrknTrk]

Yes, 7mm
There are a bunch of them in the radiator and dash support too. (At least in my Bricknose)

[Gary Lewis]

Good to know I wasn't crazy, Jim.  That was my remembrance, which came from when I ran the hot wire to the inverter recently.  (But I guess being right once doesn't really mean I'm not crazy.  And I am here, which may negate that.)

Evaporust works pretty well if you can submerge the part in it.  I have a gallon jug of it and have used it a few times.

And that SEM Trim Black might be just the thing for the fender liners.  I'll be anxious to see your results.

[kramttocs]

Was at a truck show last summer and there was a 90 F150 where the kid had painted the liners the same color as the body (metallic green). It looked really good but I didn't ask what kind of paint was used and how long it had been that way.

[Gary Lewis]

Did he also do the pulleys and mounts in that color?  Did the truck have a shell what was painted like a ... shell?  

[kramttocs]

I wish! The motor was a mix of the green and chrome. He'd done a good job on the detail.

[ckuske]

A small update... I got all the bolts and screws out for the two fender aprons haven't tried to remove them yet for the reason below:

When I bought the truck back, I noticed the right front fender had a weird shape.  Since it had been so many years, I wasn't sure if this was new damage of not (but I didn't remember this damage when I had it)

When trying to remove the RH fender apron today, I tried to pull it forward (is this the right way?) and saw it was still hung up on a screw.  Ran my hands under the wheel well - hmm, it feels like they're all out.  I don't understand!

Here's the picture of the suspect fender from a few different angles.  I wasn't sure if the fender was misshapen, not reinstalled properly, or just plain dented:





Now the kicker... the screw I couldn't find?  I crawled underneath and peered underneath.. I can see the screw going from the fender into the apron.  But the screw head isn't there, and the fender is all warped and I think was Bondo'd...



This picture right above this text shows approximately where the screw is that is obscured.



I guess I have to get a Sawsall between the fender and apron to get the screw out?  Or try to scrape away the Bondo or whatever covered it up...

When I eventually get it to paint/body, do you guys think I should get a replacement fender, or let the shop try to fix it?  I see Dennis Carpenter has OEM ones, but the shipping is crazy.  I may try local salvage yards to see if any are in good condition.

[Gary Lewis]

I don't see a lot of issues with the fender, so I'd ask my paint and body man if he can sort it out instead of buying a new one.  Some of the new ones don't have very thick metal.

On the screw, might the head be under the Bondo?  I'd worry that getting a Sawsall in there would tear things up.  Can you get to the screw to twist it and see if it'll break free of the Bondo?

[ckuske]

Yeah, the head of the screw has been completely covered.  I suppose I can try to chip away a bit and see if I  can expose the head of the screw.  I'm not keeping this paint, so who cares, right?


That'd be better than the Sawsall approach, I agree.  My main goal is to not damage the fender apron