Old Blue - 1984 XL Flareside

[Gary Lewis]

What I found here says:

Here’s another example of legacy term confusion. Sometimes it is necessary to use a tap with extended length. The added length may be used to add “reach” to the tool, or to allow tapping to a depth longer than the thread length of the standard blank. Maybe it’s necessary to accomplish both! The confusion lies in what to call that style of tap.  “Pulley” taps were originally designed to tap threads in a pulley assembly. Length was extended, but shank diameter was approximately the same as the thread major diameter. The shank was used as an alignment guide to reach through the pulley hub. Thread depth could not exceed the thread length of the tap. Today, the term is rarely recognized by recent generations.  

“Extension” taps provide additional length for reach just as pulley taps do. However, the shank diameter is reduced to allow tapping beyond the ground thread length of the tap. The shank diameter “clears” the drilled hole.

So, if you can't find a pulley tap then maybe you can find an extension tap?  (I'd never heard of it, either.)

[kramttocs]

Learned something new
One could also take a grinder and cut flutes in a bolt that is long enough. Essentially a long chase giving the crud somewhere to go. Oil, thread, remove, clean, repeat.

[Gary Lewis]

kramttocs wrote

One could also take a grinder and cut flutes in a bolt that is long enough. Essentially a long chase giving the crud somewhere to go. Oil, thread, remove, clean, repeat.

That's a good idea, especially if you have a cutoff wheel so you can get a sharp edge on the cut.  

[ArdWrknTrk]

I've never known that difference.  💡

But I've rarely encountered a situation where I needed to tap longer than the threads available on the tap.

I have had situations where I needed a bottoming tap in a blind hole, but only *had* a taper tap.
So I just tap as far as I can, back it out, blow it out, cut the tip off with a .045" disc and go until I bottom again. Then I back it out and cut more off, until I get threads close enough to the bottom.

Scott's trick with an old bolt is pretty effective for chasing threads.

[Gary Lewis]

Until I took the course in machine work I didn't know there are different types of taps.    What I learned is:

[grumpin]

“Pulley tap” Never heard of them either, that I can remember. Heard of the three you showed. Cool!

Interesting!

[ckuske]

I started doing what you suggested - going a few more turns, backing the bolt out and cleaning it off, and repeating. It’s getting there, I had to go back to tea life later in the day but I think I’m ready to install again soon.  

Thanks for the advice - I try to not force things out of fear I’ll damage something that I’m not able to fix, but I’m learning they are sturdier than I give it credit for. And following Jim’s advice, I’ll use thread sealant on the ends.

[Gary Lewis]

Keep on keeping on, slowly, carefully, and you'll get there.

[ckuske]

Will do!

PS - Dang autocorrect!  I meant “real life” not “tea life” :)

On Sun, Jan 31, 2021 at 6:42 PM Gary Lewis [via Bullnose Enthusiasts Forum] <[hidden email]> wrote:

Keep on keeping on, slowly, carefully, and you'll get there.

Gary, AKA "Gary fellow": Profile

Dad's: '81 F150 Ranger XLT 4x4: Down for restomod: Full-roller "stroked 351M" w/Trick Flow heads & intake, EEC-V SEFI/E4OD/3.50 gears w/Kevlar clutches
Blue: 2015 F150 Platinum 4x4 SuperCrew wearing Blue Jeans & sporting a 3.5L EB & Max Tow
Big Blue: 1985 F250HD 4x4: 460/ZF5/3.55's, D60 w/Ox locker in front & 10.25 Spicer/Trutrac in back, & EEC-V MAF/SEFI

---

If you reply to this email, your message will be added to the discussion below:

http://forum.garysgaragemahal.com/Old-Blue-1984-Flareside-tp17808p87177.html

To unsubscribe from Old Blue - 1984 Flareside, click here.
NAML

[ArdWrknTrk]

I think you'll be fine if you continue slowly, or find another long bolt and slot it as Scott suggested.

Autocowrong, or auto-incorrect is amazingly frustrating!  

[ckuske]

I believe I do have an extra bolt, that is a good idea Scott had. I don’t have a grinder but perhaps a Dremel would work?  I don’t know how a grinding disc would do against grade 5 steel - I’ll try to find a softer bolt lying around. 

On Sun, Jan 31, 2021 at 6:55 PM ArdWrknTrk [via Bullnose Enthusiasts Forum] <[hidden email]> wrote:

I think you'll be fine if you continue slowly, or find another long bolt and slot it as Scott suggested.

Autocowrong, or auto-incorrect is amazingly frustrating!  

 Jim,
Lil'Red is a '87 F250 HD, 4.10's, 1356 4x4, Zf-5, 3G, PMGR, Saginaw PS, desmogged with a Holley 80508 and Performer intake.
Too much other stuff to mention.

---

If you reply to this email, your message will be added to the discussion below:

http://forum.garysgaragemahal.com/Old-Blue-1984-Flareside-tp17808p87180.html

To unsubscribe from Old Blue - 1984 Flareside, click here.
NAML

[kramttocs]

It would work but will likely go through a number of the discs and the slots will be smaller (not ideal).
Did the thickness of anything change?
Can you stick a punch all the way through the hole to ensure they are going into the water jacket?
If not, did these have acc brackets under them perhaps? Sorry, I don't know which are through holes or not so just trying to think of other causes.

[Gary Lewis]

I knew "tea life" wasn't right, but couldn't come up with what it should have been.

On the bolt, if you are careful you could groove it with a hacksaw.  The groove will be deepest at the end, but it won't take much.  And a sharp edge will cut through the junk that's in there far better than just a nice smooth thread.

Just don't cut all the way through as you want the bolt to be full-sized and not deflect in.

[FuzzFace2]

Gary Lewis wrote

Hard to tell from the pic if that is just a hanger for the wire or if it is tab, meaning that it is connected to the conductor of the wire.  If it is a hanger then that's the wire going to the starter and it got replaced.  But if it is a tab then that's a ground wire.

I think on the 302 motors that is just an inslated cable holder to keep it from the exhaust pipe.
On the 300 six there is the same holder for the power to starter but there is also a ground cable with a tab bolted to the same frame bolts to ground the frame.
Dave  ----

[Rembrant]

kramttocs wrote

Learned something new
One could also take a grinder and cut flutes in a bolt that is long enough. Essentially a long chase giving the crud somewhere to go. Oil, thread, remove, clean, repeat.

Yup, that's a handy trick. I used to do it every now and then if I didn't have a tap or a thread chaser. I use a zipcut disk and cut it on an angle so that I end up with a sharper cutter (as opposed to cutting perpendicular to the threads).

Another handy tip is to buy a Refrigeration Ratchet Wrench to keep in your tap and die set. I have used mine for tapping threads many times. It has 4 different square hole sizes, and while it doesn't fit every tap size, it fits most of them. Great for tight spaces where you can't fit the big tap handle or get a good turn on it.

[Gary Lewis]

Cory - Thanks for the tip on the angle to cut the bolt.  That makes sense.

But thanks even more for the suggestion of the refrigeration wrench.  Someone has recommended that before, probably you, but I didn't follow up on it then.  But I did today 'cause I've recently had a need for that as the tap handle was a pain where I needed to use it.

So I bought this Klein Tools ratchet from Amazon for $17.50 inc tax.

[Rembrant]

Gary Lewis wrote

Cory - Thanks for the tip on the angle to cut the bolt.  That makes sense.

But thanks even more for the suggestion of the refrigeration wrench.  Someone has recommended that before, probably you, but I didn't follow up on it then.  But I did today 'cause I've recently had a need for that as the tap handle was a pain where I needed to use it.

So I bought this Klein Tools ratchet from Amazon for $17.50 inc tax.

Yes, I've mentioned before. You'll be surprised how often you'll reach for it once you have it. Like I said, it doesn't fit every size tap, but it's fits often enough that it's worth having imho. I find a lot of times you need a little more leverage than the small fit in your palm tap handle, and the large tap handle is just too big to use in a lot of areas on a vehicle.

[ckuske]

Yep, there are brackets that need to go on (alternator, AC/idler puller, and PS), but the bolts started getting hard to turn before I got near.  Good point.  But you're right, there will be less travel needed for the bolts when I put the brackets on.

It's been so long since I had stuff assembled, I spent a good chunk of time going through old pictures on my phone so I could refresh myself where stuff went.  I always think I take enough pictures and then without fail I later wish I had take more!

[ckuske]

So, I got some time and put the water pump on!  I worked the bolts over the past few weeks (probably about 10 mins of real work really), and I got lots of gunk out and I'm happy with the fit now.  Everything went well... almost.

I did hit one snag though, and I'm not sure if it's a big deal or not.  I mentioned awhile back that when I removed the water pump, I noticed some bolts were only hand tight...

All the bolts went in nicely, I put the pump on (with gasket and a little insurance Permatex around the sides of the pump where the water circulates in and out) and let it sit hand tight for an hour then torqued the bolts to 15 ft/lb.  All went well, except for one bolt (of course)  Pics below.  Thankfully it's an "upper bolt", I'd assume the lower bolts near the inlet/outlet are the most important.

Essentially, I can get that one bolt past hand tight, but only about one revolution past, then the bolts "pops" for lack of a better word and it loses grip.  If I back out the bolt and hand tighten again, I can feel it grip the threads and I cannot pull the bolt out, but if I go past that point where it "pops", I can't pull it out but it doesn't tighten anymore. If I put my finger on the back side of the timing cover, I can't feel anything odd, or metal filings etc.  (No bolt either, but I wouldn't have expected that anyway)  I have a feeling this damage was done in the past, but I'm not sure what could have caused it.

I'm guessing the advice is to tap a new hole for this bolt or getting a new timing cover?  Or since it was like this before (although I was unaware of this behavior of this bolt) is it worth seeing if it's ok?

[ArdWrknTrk]

I've always chased all holes when replacing a water pump, but that's mostly because I use Loctite PST on all the bolts and bee a a clean and primed surface.

You could throw a Helicoil in there.
I'm sure the new stainless threads would hold the water pump on.

I'm just not familiar with Windsors having bolts that are way out beyond the block like that I guess.