It is time to talk hydraulic clutch systems.

[ArdWrknTrk]

Did the dealership give you a P/N that was unavailable?

I realize it's been the better part of 40 years, and that they sold for a reason (just like the firewall plate)
But I never expected that they'd be gone.
I'm sure clutch shops aren't going through what you are.
They might have a specialty source

[Haystack]

If I was home when I did it, I probably would have just replaced the stud. Working in a parking lot without even a full tool set, I basically just grabbed my 2lb sledge, hammered out the stud, pried the spot welds off with some pliers and then got a bolt. There was still some "slag" left over in the hole, and the hardened bolt I got fit snug and sort of "threads" into the hole without any real slop. Tighten down the nut on the other side, and it's solid.

The bronze busing was almost small enough, and I just so happened to have the same sized drill bit on the truck, so I lightly reamed the loop, and it's a good snug fit.

I don't care if I have to fabricate or replace everything as long as I can get it to work.

[Haystack]

Alot of the suppliers seem to have stopped replacing them.

The mechanic told me that the order all of their parts from a drivetrain shop in town. When I did construction full time as a kid, I often worked in the shop with the mechanics, usually as a gopher, go for this, pick this part up, drop this alternator off to be rebuilt ECT.

the shop the mechanic said was the same one I used to get flywheels and clutch sets from when I did construction. They told me the suppliers no longer carry them older then 1990 and they can't even order them.

I ran into alot of the same things with my 86 tbird. I daily drove mine, doing pizza delivery ECT. Alot of the parts are similar to both an 80's Ford truck and mustang. About 10 years ago, places like AutoZone stopped carrying all the parts.

Doing pizza delivery with a big heavy two door, I often wore out my door hinges and replaced them religiously. They were always on the shelf in the "help" or dorman section. They stopped carrying them, and dorman stopped making them.

[Haystack]

Been looking at the pictures I can find online, the newer (92-96?) trucks look to have a very similar pedal bracket. I have also found some close ups of the spring off ebay listings and the like.

I guess I never looked at it that close, but I thought that bracket on the clutch side was a bump stop. It looks like it is supposed to move with the pedal, and that is what does the spring actuation.

I am fairly certain that master muffler must have bent that bracket when they pried out the spring.

I am going to try to hit a junkyard in the next few days. If prices aren't ridiculous, I'll get a whole pedal assembly off a newer truck.

Unfortunately I don't seem to show any 80-86 trucks listed in any local junkyards. Closes one is a 1980 (and I know that may be different) and that one is 85 miles one way.

Looking at the newer pedal cluster, it looks like they added reinforcement for the clutch master cylinder, I think that is why the bolt pattern is angled on the newer trucks.

Does anyone know if I can just swap the pedal assembly as is from a 92-96 truck? They look to be much more plentiful then any of the 1991 or earlier trucks. I'm at the point where I don't mind drilling holes or adding spacers to make this work.

This would also make a pre bled assembly a drop in.

I usually find 5-10 automatics for every clutch.

[ArdWrknTrk]

I think Ford angled the holes so the firewall didn't take load directly across the two weak points vertically.
Newer (angled) master cylinders use a clutch safety that mounts directly over the nub that sticks through the firewall.
The casting is stronger/reinforced, the steering column hole is different and the column becomes a stub shaft with a universal joint inside the cab.

But I'm not sure exactly when.
I know Bill Vose has a '95 dash from "The Giving Truck" in Darth.
I'm going to tag him because he can help with the detail changes.

[mat in tn]

I know that I have a complete pedal assembly in storage from an 83 3 speed column shift. and we just stripped an 83/84 f250 with a t19 that is ready to haul off. the pedal assembly is still in it. I pulled the hydraulics as a unit but have not pulled the pedal assembly. I can at least get a picture or two if that helps.

[85lebaront2]

I can't help on the clutch pedal as Darth never had one nor did the Aeronose trucks I gathered parts from, all were AT models. The brake pedal on the 1992-96/7 (Aeronose) is primarily attached with the brake booster studs, There is a brace above that stiffens the area. It is not attached to the dash or it's support at all. The pedal support is visible over the casting.


The dash is attached, along with the stub column to the left side of the cab, two M10X1.5 bolts into the left A post and a further forward bracket welded to the side of the cab inner wall where two more M10X1.5 bolts are.


The casting is attached to the dash HVAC ducts that form the bulk of it's structure. The actual dash is mostly a "skin" over the ducts and actually only the 4 screws across the base of the windshield attach the skin to the body. On the right end, there is a tab (frequently broken) that attaches the duct assembly to the right A post. In the bottom center there is a tubular brace from the dash ducts to the upper portion of the floor hump for stiffening.


The stub column is extremely ridgedly secured to the left side of the cab through the casting, the EEC is between the casting and side wall and just in front of the casting are the two wiring harness female plugs in the firewall. a 76 pin for the underhood harness and a 24 pin for the chassis harness.

[ArdWrknTrk]

Clutch or not, we want to know the mounting differences between the Bullnose pedal box and a later one.

I know the steering wheel supports are different and the hole in the firewall with the boot is different because of the universal joint.

[85lebaront2]

Jim, on the aeronose, there isn't so much a pedal box on the automatics as there is just a pivot that is mostly contained by the brake booster studs.


To the right side of the column, the two nuts with the dark circular gasket between them, is where the 1986 clutch master cylinder would mount. I would imagine on an aeronose cab, the pedal support would be wider, with the clutch pedal on the left and a cross shaft to the clutch master cylinder doubling as a brake pedal pivot would be there and the clutch master cylinder would be bolted in that area.

Steel line is my trailer brake controller hydraulic connection.

[ArdWrknTrk]

Right, so this is good info and reason NOT TO mess with the pedal assembly .

[Haystack]

Okay, I guess I am just looking for another bull nose pedal assembly.

I almost pulled the complete unit when I got the pedal bracket, now I really wish I did.

Might see if I can find an easy to get to aero nose setup and see if any major parts are easily interchangeable.

For instance, if I could simply swap the clutch pedal with that spring bracket, it may fix my over centered spring issue, or at least give me an idea how mine might be bent with them side by side.

I am going to mess with the pedal cluster first, then I think I am just going to spend the coin on a pre bled newer setup and just drill the firewall.

What's another $100 after all....

[ArdWrknTrk]

I don't think those castings are going to bend, at all.

The spring overcenter mechanism is really simple, but a little fiddly to get back together.

Somewhere along the way the clutch spring should be pushing on the throw out arm, pushing on the slave, pushing on the master cylinder piston+pushrod, which pushes on the little arm attached to the cross shaft through the four fingered plastic retainer bushing.
You're sure the cross shaft bushings are good?
I've seen where the bushings are completely gone and the steel shaft has eaten the pedal support oval.

[Haystack]

Although I have not completely disassembled it, the bushings look newer. They are bright green and do not look to have any wobble when moving the clutch pedal.

The truck is actually relatively low mileage (I rolled it over 100k miles on the way to Oregon) and was owned by a mechanic. It was last registered in 2007 and the mechanic retired and owned a tree orchard and used the bucket once or twice a year to trim trees. He said it was a "service truck" for a power company, who sold it to a local tree trimmer. The mechanic did some work on it and the tree trimmer went bankrupt and he got the title through a mechanics lean.

All the emissions stuff was deleted, and it has obviously sat outside most of its life. But it had a brand new master cylinder, several new brake lines and they had welded up holes in the floor where they like to rust out. They even replaced a few of the cab mounts.

Being as he did not drive the truck on public roads, he didn't care for things like seatbelts or the heater. It was just a farm truck to him. I believe all the wiring was either degraded or maybe rats chewed them and then they grounded out and burned.

Even when the clutch disc blew apart on me, it looked like the clutch friction material just fell apart over time, there was still plenty there. I think it was fairly likely it was the original 40 year old clutch disc and the glue or whatever holds it failed.

I am pretty sure something is bent. It does not "over center" the spring at all. It only pushes down at about the half way point, at no point does the pedal get pushed upwards. It will stay in place upwards, but snaps to the ground if you barely touch it.

[ArdWrknTrk]

Okay, I'm perfectly willing to believe that your low mileage truck's cross shaft bushings are in fine fettle.

Having the pedal snap to the floor just isn't right.
They'll do that if there's no fluid at all, but you've bench bled the master and the crank arm to master pushrod is tight
The master pushrod is properly adjusted..
Your firewall isn't torn.
You're getting fluid through the line to the bleeder.
The slave pushes out on the throw out arm 3/4" or so

I'm as dumbfounded as you, right now.  
Unfortunately, I'm not in Colorado to come look at it.

[Haystack]

It only "snaps to the floor" when the master cylinder is not connected. The spring pushes the pedal down, but does not seem to assist pulling up at all. I can see that it is an "over center" type spring, but it definitely doesn't not pull the pedal back up, at all.

Either way, I am still not past the bleeding stage, So I have decided that I will just order the prebled system and drill holes.

I do need to get the pedal to retract properly if I am going to drive it though.

[ArdWrknTrk]

Okay, that's normal, if the linkage is disconnected.

I can't say why there's so much trouble bleeding the clutch.
It has always been a problem with the ones that don't have any bleeder, and that's why I got the Excedy slave* for the 351 trucks that had a fitting.

When I fed the bleeder back up into the reservoir, and was able to pump without having to refill I got enough pedal to drive it and within a mile it had sorted itself.

I'm sorry that you've had nothing but bad fortune with yours!
It shouldn't be such a problem (in my experience)

Please keep us informed!  

[Haystack]

I don't like to give up, it's just bleeding a pedal after all.

But I started thinking about it, and I have spend more on brake fluid then the new prebled system, I have spent hours trying to bleed it, both by myself and with others, and what I really want is the truck to work.

I may have another job lined up in Arizona. Not that I want to be in 110°f heat, but it's 500 miles closer to home. Much more travel friendly, fewer passes and maintains as well.

It's basically downhill to las Vegas, so I might be able to average more then 35mph.

I hate to say it, but if I can get a couple of months out of this truck and make some money, I fully intend to replace it and make this the back up truck.

Just not worth the gas mileage. I found an f-650 Cummins semi locally and they only want $6k for it, and supposedly it's at 100k miles and has much bigger and beefier bucket. 16k lb hydraulic lift, bit strong metal boom and bucket (mine is fiberglass, I'd much rather have metal). The last cummins f-650 I drove was fun to drive, quick, and got over 12mpg, that's double what this this gets.

[ArdWrknTrk]

. I've just noticed the last line of your sig!
CTTH is fast disappearing, but I learned how to polish fiber back when that was a crude undertaking.

Hard to beat a Cummins, but I wouldn't want to be the one paying their $2 Billion fine! 😂
F-650 was a good truck 30 years ago. I have no idea what they're like today, but it sounds like quite the upgrade for you.

I wish a lightbulb would go off in my head and I came up with some magic answer, but alas.......    

[Haystack]

We did a full fiber rebuild here in Utah around 2005 or so. Most everything was ran off of individual localized satellite dishes. We ran fiber optics basically from one end of the state to the other. We ran a 144ct fiber, broke off one fiber per city. It was supposed to be a 50 year upgrade. This was my first "cable job".  

I was back about 10 years later running a 432 in-between every city, using most at each splice point.

Copper is pretty much dead for internet usage. That sucks, because I was a Comcast coax splicer for the first 5 years. Really enjoyed it, and made pretty good money. Comcast did all the fiber splicing in house, so we just ran the cables, so I never actually learned how to splice it.

I learned pretty quickly that there is a ton of money in it. If I can get stuff off the ground, I average between 5-10k ft of fiber in an 8 hour work day. 3 or 4 years ago, we ran 4 miles through the grand canyon in a week.

I'm getting to the point that I am sick of killing myself for pennies while the owner drives a Ferrari every morning, only to get "laid off" in the slow season every winter.

When I was 21 they sent me up to Oregon. Bought a truck in California, had the guy drive it up. First guy they hired was there for 2 months, 4 man crew and only put up 20k feet and walked off the job, skipping every difficult line or major road crossing.

I came in, and in 4 weeks we ran roughly 500k ft. When we finished the project, one of the bosses let it slip that we ended up making $450k in that 4 week period, after wages and hotels. That pissed me off because they freaked out when I turned in my timecard at 16 hour days, and limited us to 8 hours and no weekends after. The next week I asked for a raise, which they denied. I put in my two weeks and bounced from company to company for a few years trying to find a good fit.

That big f-650 Cummins would be perfect. You can run the supporting strand, and a fiber real, and string it all up and together in one contained unit without even a trailer when running fiber.

Gonna try to get through the summer season and see where I end up. Not as young as I used to be, and want to see if it's still worth it.  

[Haystack]

Got the prebled system, looks like the same master and slave, except the bottom hole is slightly lower (less than a half inch I would guess, and the backing plate is plastic instead of metal.

I may find some metal to cut up just to reinforce it a bit (the newer trucks seem to have a metal bracket with studs that go thru off the pedal bracket).

Gonna try to swap it either later tonight or tomorrow morning and see what we got.