It is time to talk hydraulic clutch systems.

[ArdWrknTrk]

I replied to your WTB.

This is not impossible, I use a 351 slave w/ bleeder to pump a loop to the MC reservoir.
It fits right on.

But DO NOT waste your time with a T-18.
If you're going to swap Gearboxes go with a Zf-5 S42/7

[Haystack]

I pretty much have to keep the current t-19. Because the bucket part of the truck is powered by the PTO, the PTO gear can be modified, but from what I can tell, is not only specific to the 1st gear ratio, but likely to be different if I swap the transmission (such as the zfs trans, although I would love to have an OD gear).

I can add either a purely electric hydraulic pump, or a belt driven solution (magnetic clutch belt drive hydraulic pump, like an ac pump uses), but both would cost around 1k to replace, and I don't want to spend $1,000 to replace something that isn't broken, over a clutch fork, that I can't use the truck without anyways. Going to the zfs trans might help some with gas mileage, but the old 6 bolt pto is old enough, they no longer carry or stock parts for them. If the gear mesh is different for the zfs transmission, I would either need a spacer/shims, or I would have to replace the gear all together with a custom machined replacement, which again would cost about $1k. So it would not only be a zfs swap, but likely another $1k on top of that to make the pto or hydraulics for the bucket to work after.

For whatever reason, the bellhousing changed from 83-84 to the same one as the diesel for the 85-86 460. Rock auto lists the same clutch fork for the 83-84 years, but I have purchased two, one uses the za-110 style clutch fork, or the newer zfs style trans like the za-124. (Searching 1985 f-350 with diesel or 460 always says za-126, and is slightly different) one was from a 1985 4wd 460 t-19, the other was from a 1987 zfs 460, and neither match the correct clutch fork.

Or at least that is the theory.

I am finding a 1985-1986 f-250/350's to be difficult to find, and every junkyard truck I have found with the 4spd so far has been 4wd.

I don't see why they would have to change the bellhousing for 4wd, but a sure sign of the t-19 over a t-18 seems to be the dual PTO cover of the t-19 as an easy identifier.

Both 1985 4wd 460's that I have found, have a t-18 style transmission case, and seem to use the same clutch fork as every other 83-86 f-250/f-350. (The za-110 style if searching for a SBF)

Every dual PTO case has a casting for the hydraulics to mount to, but every single PTO case has the bolt on solution like the sbf t-18. I will see if I can add a picture for reference.

[Haystack]

Basically, because of the cab and chassis stuff, this is a 12klb gvwr truck. I am guessing the t-19 and bellhousing for the 2wd diesel was just used for the 1985-1986 model years for the heavier duty 2wd dually setup?

I honestly don't know. But if I cannot get the clutch fork (by far the easiest fix) then I am going to run the bellhousing off the 4wd 460 at the junkyard instead.

[Ifitaintbroke]

The ZF-5 is a good swap and fairly easy, but there are a few things you should know.

You will need a new flywheel, as the ZF clutch will not bolt up.

You will need a different trans crossmember, as the ZF's mount is in a different place.

You will need a different floorpan, as the ZF is taller.

Slave was not an issue for me, but my truck is an 86.

[ArdWrknTrk]

PTO's are kinda universal.
Is yours Chelsea, Eaton, what???

The same bellhousing 2 or 4wd.
It's the gearbox tailshaft that differs.

I can look up the 1st gear ratios if you like, but there's absolutely no reason to change the gearbox if all you need is a throwout arm.

[Haystack]

I know they are fairly universal, but the distance between the gears changes with gear ratios, meaning if a pto fits a 5:1 1st gear, it will not fit a 4:1 1st gear and will require a different to drive gear. Those are no longer available easily, I called a few places, and the cheapest quote I got for a PTO gear was around $1k.

It is a Chelsea.

Again, I do not want to swap to the zf trans, over a clutch fork. I just need the clutch fork. I have probably looked at over 1000 trucks, every junkyard in my area, and have been unable to find the right one.

I have purchased 4 different clutch forks, all of them from 85 460's, verified by VIN, and none of them have fit and are a different style.

[ArdWrknTrk]

Then you need to ask yourself why YOUR 460/T-19 combo is wearing some unique freaking throw out arm, because every 460 from '83-'87 has a T-19 and uses one that's commonly available, if not new, (but I think Pioneer makes one)

[ArdWrknTrk]

Maybe, just maybe your truck has the wrong one now, and that's why it doesn't work right?

What does the engineering number say?

[Haystack]

I pulled two clutch forks off of two separate 4wd 460's. Both had a t-18 looking transmission (only passenger side PTO provision) and appear to be regular t-18 clutch forks.

The two I ordered online were listed as correct for the truck (ordered for an 85 460), but both were the newer zfs external clutch fork style used from 87 up.

If you can find me a diesel t-19 clutch fork, I would gladly buy it. Every diesel I found at the parts yards were either already gone or automatics, and every online listing I have found for then are out of stock (including rock auto). When researching part numbers (googling the part number) I found posts as old as 2006 from guys saying they were no longer available and best bet was used at a junkyard.

Like an idiot, when I got the first junkyard clutch fork that looked right, I threw away the broken clutch fork it has thinking it was the same, I should have looked closer.

I don't see why ford wouldn't use the same clutch fork in a 4wd 460, both both I found were wrong at looked like a t-18 trans. One truck was very minty looking, had low miles, good paint and a full interior.

I have not been able to find a single t-19 trans truck in the junkyard, or I would have just done that.

The t-18 style fork looks almost exactly the same, but the pivot ball mount is too far in, and hits the bellhousing when installing.

The t-19 clutch fork has nearly the same profile, but is clearance on the back side and has a slight forward curve while the t-18 style is basically flat with no bends.

If you can find me an online t-19 clutch fork that is in stock, let me know. I even emailed two different suppliers that showed out of stock, and they both said the part was discontinued and no longer in production.

[ArdWrknTrk]

T-18 (single PTO) was never factory fitment beneath ANY 460, 2 or 4wd.

There is a difference between 2 & 4wd 1st gear ratios, but the gearbox remained T-19.
I will have to dig all this crap up from my phone because I don't have my books here, while recovering from the hospital at my brother's.

I've got some time before the sun comes up and I can start beating on stuff or using an impact gun in this neighborhood.
Let me see what I can find......

[Haystack]

Here's some pictures of the difference of Jeff's bronco graveyard.

T-18 style
Screenshot_20240410-014424.png

T-19 style, the one I need Screenshot_20240410-014756.png

And the newer 87 up zf style
Screenshot_20240410-014434.png

The t-18 fork is essentially flat. The t-19 has a bit of forward and back angle to it with a relief cut behind the pivot for bellhousing clearance, and the zf fork is the wrong shape, angles backwards, and the pivot ball mount is so deep that it will not even go into the transmission.

[ArdWrknTrk]

To insert an image you need to use the "big size" button in the insert image drop-down menu. (This software is antiquated and frustrating, sorry! We're working on it)

I (obviously) have retrofitted a Zf to my T-19 truck.
While I HAVE fixed plenty of Windsor 4x4's, I've never had the forks side by side.
If it's any consolation, I am running a 351 external slave, with bleeder!

I'm going to round up parts numbers and screenshots from the manuals Gary has available online and head over to parts voice + rear counter and see what shakes loose.

Please give me some time.
I'm in excruciating pain.

[Haystack]

I have looked long and hard for an nipple bleeder external slave, and have not been able to find one.

I am sure my original slave cylinder problem has to do with the different bores in the slave cylinder. They are not documented in anyway, with reference to what should go where. I figure I am getting half the actuation I need, and the 19mm bore should give me about double the travel. The clutch never felt right from the first time I drove it.

I did finally find a way to completely submerge the slave and bleed it where I can get all of the air out, but I still wasn't getting the actuation that is needed.

I had thrown in the towel, decided I'd let someone else figure it out (cold and snowy with limited time) and gave up. The shop has good reviews and worked on larger commercial trucks, so I thought I was in good hands. They had it for a week, then told me the brand new clutch and pressure plate were bad.

Brought it home, and when I took it apart, the clutch fork was Infront of the throw out bearing and one of the two fingers was broken off.

Shined a light inside, and sure enough, it needed a pressure plate, because they broke off and bent up the fingers. So I dropped the transmission and again swapped the clutch (broken metal was jammed in the disc from the drive home) and thought the new clutch fork would be a trivial, order a new one part.

I didn't need the truck right away by this time, so on my early days and weekends, I hit junkyards in my area until I couldn't find anymore, and didn't come up with a clutch fork.

I was looking at it today closer, and it looks like the bellhousing is also cracked from the clutch fork getting jammed.

Not that I want to, but I found a t-19 in southern Utah (about a 4 hr drive) for less then $500 with a clutch fork and bellhousing. I messaged the guy about it a week or two ago and he just got back to me, so I will probably just go pick that up.

That should solve both my cracked bellhousing and clutch fork issue, hopefully, and give me a spare trans, just in case. I beat the piss out of it getting it home with no clutch, so I don't see a spare trans as a bad thing to have laying around just in case.

For now, I am just going to yank that clutch fork when I get it home and see if anything has changed with the slave cylinder effectiveness.

Maybe the old clutch fork was all bent up, or maybe the bellhousing was already cracked and was causing my issues. Either way, I think I will know a bunch more tomorrow afternoon. If I am still not getting the actuation I want and the bellhousing doesn't look damaged compared to the spare, I am going to order that smaller bore slave and hopefully have this stupid thing done.

[ArdWrknTrk]

I'm using an Excedy SC886 slave cylinder.

EXEDY SC886 Clutch Slave Cylinder https://a.co/d/9ptuNOC

[ArdWrknTrk]

This is all I can find, here. Gary may have more info, but I don't always see where he puts things.
The star for the '83 release arm indicates superceded (by the '84-'87 arm below it)
Note: the bellhousing change from 83 to 84 for the 7.5/460.  This is because the slave boss is the Achilles heel of those bells.

Now we have information!
Time to go track down what I can.....

[ArdWrknTrk]

We want:  E6TZ 7515-A. (marked E4TA 7515-CA, E6TA 7515-AA)

https://atpautomotive.com/clutch-fork-za-126

https://fortwayneclutch.com/product/1984-1987-ford-truck-6-9l-7-5l-4spd-clutch-release-fork-e6tz-7515-a-sku-t837/

[ArdWrknTrk]

If you want to search eBay use the engineering numbers, because most people who strip vehicles only know the number they see, not the actual part number.
Good luck!  

[Haystack]

Thank you, I have tried various parts numbers (it's nice to know I have the correct ones), but none of them have pulled up anything on eBay. I am sure I have searched the same ones previously, and no dice.

Also, both of the links that you show, are out of stock, and the za-126, I called two different "OEM suppliers". One said the za-124 (the 87 zf fork) was a direct replacement, the other said that the za-126 was discontinued.

I also called my local "heavy duty truck center" Ford center, where I used to take my dump truck back in the day, and the guy laughed at me, and said I would never find one in stock for a truck over 10 years old. He then gave me a list of random first dealerships who "may have old stock", one if which was in Tennessee, and none of them had any either.

AutoZone, O'Reilly's and Napa all show the za-124 zf style clutch fork as a "1983-1997" part direct replacement. So did car quest and the commercial Napa when searching by VIN number.

I don't think that the manufacturers realize that the 83-87 t-19 specific fork is unavailable and believe that the newer zfs style clutch fork will work.

My plan if I didn't find the clutch fork was to steal that bellhousing and clutch fork for the 85 460 4wd if I couldn't find the proper clutch fork, but now that this semi local guy got back to me with a complete t-19, that is the way I am going to go.  

Definitely not the cheapest option, bur I don't mind spare parts.

[Haystack]

Hmm... The bellhousing for the 83 cracking... I wonder if that is what I was seeing on the 460's at the junkyard because they had the bolt on slave cylinder mount rather then the cast in version like my truck. They still looked like a t-18 trans, but I would imagine the t-19 would be more expensive when the trucks were newer if you wiped out a gear box, and maybe the 83 bellhousing was more common?

Idk, I can't imagine a t-19 getting destroyed easily, specifically after what I did to mine to get it home from Oregon.

[ArdWrknTrk]

I snapped the input shaft of my T-19 like a twig. 🤣

Hopefully the bigger 10 spline input of the Zf-5 S42 holds up.
It should, it is the same part # as the later S47 (470 foot pound) version.