Dad's Truck Build

[Ford F834]

Steve83 wrote

Ford F834 wrote

I keep hearing this... that the 1356 is stronger... but is it?

Yes.  The 1356 was used in 7.3L PSTD F350s & heavier.  None of the older t-cases could stand up to that.

I have to disagree. Ford needed a heavy transfer case for its F350 diesels and 460 4x4’s in the Bullnose years. The BW1345 was that transfer case. The 1356 is heavier, but not by a lot... and the slip yoke is a weak enough point that 4x4 shops sell a very expensive slip yoke eliminator kit to remedy it. When you say the 1356 was used in F350 “and up”... was there a F450 four wheel drive? Not from Ford I don’t think in the F-Superduty/F450 format.

Steve83 wrote

Ford F834 wrote

...it has a rear slip yoke which is weaker and more prone to wear and problems.

The pickup version has a rear slip yoke, but Broncos have both fixed yokes.

Yes, I know a fixed yoke 1356 existed but they are quite rare. I have never seen one in person, all the Broncos I’ve encountered had much lighter duty transfer cases in them. If you can find one, then great... but good luck...

Steve83 wrote

Ford F834 wrote

Personally I wouldn’t rate the 1345 as inferior in terms of strength.

BW seems to, since it was never supplied for F350s.

Absolutely not true! My ‘86 diesel F350 came with one, and the MPC and dealer facts book will verify that is what most 80-86 F350 4x4’s we’re equipped with... a few had the NP208. The 1356 wasn’t in production until 1987.

http://www.garysgaragemahal.com/transfer-cases.html

Steve83 wrote

Ford F834 wrote

I have read that the 1356 shifts more smoothly on the fly...

Than what?  I can't tell a difference in the 2H-4H shift from the NP208F to the BW1356.  I've never driven a 1345.

Supposedly the 1356 has smoother on-the-fly shifts than the 1345. My 1345’s have always shifted fine on the fly. Not as smooth as a synchronized transmission shift but smooth enough.

[Steve83]

Ford F834 wrote

...a fixed yoke 1356 existed but they are quite rare. I have never seen one in person, all the Broncos I’ve encountered had much lighter duty transfer cases in them. If you can find one, then great... but good luck...

The ONLY t-case used in '87-96 Broncos was the BW1356, as that chart shows (and it shows no F350 1345s, but it begins at '87).  I have at least 5 of them (only because I don't need more), so I wouldn't describe them as "rare".  From '80-86: ONLY the NP208F.  I think all '78-9 Broncos got the NP205, but I'm not nearly as familiar with them.  '66-77 got the Dana 20.

Ford F834 wrote

My ‘86 diesel F350...

An '86 diesel's torque doesn't really compare to the 7.3L PSTD's.

Ford F834 wrote

The 1356 wasn’t in production until 1987.

From what I've seen in the JYs & read in Ford documentation, the 1345 came out in '86.  But I don't usually look for or notice them, so that's really just my impression.

[Gary Lewis]

Not to enter into the discussion re strength, since I don't know, but the BW1345 was in use by 1980, as shown here: Driveline/Transfer Cases and on the Applications tab.  And the 1356 was introduced in '87 and appears to have been used on everything, including F150's and Bronco's.  But the 1345 was still in use as well, although not used on the F350's as of '87.

[Gary Lewis]

Yesterday I mentioned that my wife, Janey, had eye appointments.  And, that there'd be more on that later.  Well, now is "later".

Over the past several months she's been noticing that her eyes get very tired by the end of the day, especially when she does a lot of what she loves to do - sew and quilt.  Then last Sunday in Bible class she was having trouble reading what was on the screen, so closed her right eye and looked through her left eye.  And everything was weird.  Curved.  Blurry.

Fortunately she had an appointment with our eye doctor for yesterday, and when they checked her out they realized that she has a problem that needs to be addressed ASAP.  So they sent her to a specialist, who happened to have an opening yesterday afternoon.  The specialist said it will require surgery, and they had a cancelation for Monday.  But, they need pre-surgery lab work, and they can do that today.  Plus, there will be frequent post-surgery checkups.

The reason I bring this up is twofold: First, and most importantly, please add her to your prayer list.  Second, and a distant second it is, I'll not be getting as much hands-on work done on Dad's truck for a while, nor even be on here as much.  So, I need your help holding the fort and helping others.

But, I will be on as I can, and I will also be working on the "book" that is to summarize all that's been done on Dad's truck.  And, while you won't get notifications of the changes, you can check it out in the first post on this thread from time to time.

[1986F150Six]

I will pray for her, and you, Gary.

[Gary Lewis]

Thanks, David.  She had her pre-op lab work today, so we are ready for Monday.

[Ford F834]

Oh my gosh Gary... I am so sorry 😥. I will keep Janey in my prayers. Please let us know how she does.

Regarding the transfer cases...

Steve, I did not mean to come across as argumentative. I would like to see a torque rating for both and know what each was engineered to handle, but I cannot seem to find that anywhere. I am well aware that my ‘86 diesel does not equal a 7.3 PSD... but the stock 460’s come close.

The 1345 came in F150-F350 from 1980 to 1990/1991. I pulled mine from a 1989 F250 with a 460 EFI that should have put out 245 hp and 400 tq

The 1356 came in F150-F350 from 1987-1998. The early 7.3 PSD’s put out 210 hp and 425 tq. The ‘99-‘03 7.3 Powerstrokes made more, but they were paired with a ZF-6 with its own special t-case or a 4R100 with a BW4407?

I wouldn’t call 245/400 vs 210/425 all that different. The t-case sizes and weights are similar. The only thing I see parroted over and over is that the 1356 is “much” stronger because of its magnesium case... but no specifications to go with that. I’m sure it is stronger, but I’ve never heard of a grenaded case unless one crashed on a rock or the pump spun.

I will say that the 1356 is a very stout case. Justin Anderson has done dirt drag racing in his Bronco that dyno’d over 400/800 at the wheels, and sled pulling with his 350/600 F250. I hate relying on anecdotal evidence, but unfortunately that seems to be what we have.

Also, I appreciate the info about the later Broncos having the fixed yoke 1356. That might be helpful to me. I can’t find a 1345 speedometer drive gear and if the length is the same I can probably do a transfer case change and keep my driveshaft. That may be the easiest way to fix my problem as wasteful as it is.

Gary, sorry for the thread diversion. This probably does not help you much regarding Dad’s truck. And I feel a little callous carrying on about gear boxes while your mind is obviously with your wife. My thoughts are with you both.

[Steve83]

Gary
Good luck to you & Janey.

Ford F834 wrote

Steve, I did not mean to come across as argumentative.

No sweat, even if you did.  I promise you I've been accused of being argumentative 1000x more than you ever will, which tells me I might be.   But I just enjoy an interesting discussion - passionate, heated, argumentative, or otherwise - as long as it's a topic that interests me.

The note about the 1345 being used in '80-86 F150s is particularly interesting since, in general, Broncos used the same running gear as F150s.  But I've never seen or heard of a Bronco with a factory 1345.

Ford F834 wrote

...later Broncos having the fixed yoke 1356.

ALL Broncos of all years with all t-cases have a fixed rear yoke.  That makes the absence of the fixed-rear-yoke-only 1345 even more interesting...

[Ford F834]

All 1345 are fixed yoke. I have no idea why they were not used in Bronco’s either, but you are right. I’ve never seen one in a Bronco. Maybe it had to do with GVWR? My ‘81 F150 is a surprisingly healthy 6100 lbs. maybe the NP 208 were shorter? Or didn’t hang down as far? I can’t remember if Bronco’s got the skid plate or not. Maybe I should buy one 😈

[1986F150Six]

Ford F834 wrote

 I can’t remember if Bronco’s got the skid plate or not. Maybe I should buy one 😈

Skid plate or Bronco???

[Ford F834]

1986F150Six wrote

Ford F834 wrote

 I can’t remember if Bronco’s got the skid plate or not. Maybe I should buy one 😈

Skid plate or Bronco???

Well, hypothetically speaking.... if I were to go buy a skid plate it could possibly have a Bronco attached to it...
😇

[Gary Lewis]

Guys - Thanks for the prayers and thoughts.  We are told, by people we know and trust, that the doctor that's doing the surgery is one of the best there is, so that's comforting.

And, I'm not at all concerned about the "thread diversion".  Nor having the discussion go on while I'm thinking of other things.  I'm happy that you are having the discussion.

On the question of ratings, it would sure be nice to find them, someplace.  But I just checked and neither the Ford nor the BW manuals I have include that info.

As for buying things, I vote for buying a Bronco to find out if it has a skid plate.  But, just one sample won't adequately answer the question, so maybe each of us should buy one?  

[85lebaront2]

Prayers for Janey, hope everything goes well.

[Ford F834]

Gary Lewis wrote

As for buying things, I vote for buying a Bronco to find out if it has a skid plate.  But, just one sample won't adequately answer the question, so maybe each of us should buy one?  

Good plan Gary... partners in crime in the name of scientific rigor! I’ve been drooling over this one but looks like it has title issue and I can’t get the seller to message me 😔

https://mohave.craigslist.org/cto/d/lake-havasu-city-1980-ford-bronco/6834900963.html

[Gary Lewis]

Bill - Thanks!

Jonathan - I could easily justify $800 for that!  Go for it!  

All - My brother just called to check in, and in the course of the conversation he said he wants to come down to help install the engine and tranny in Dad's truck.  So that's a bit of impetus to get the sway bar and tie rods painted and installed.  And boy, do I need some impetus.  Right now the truck isn't all that high on my priority list.

Anyway, I'll head out in a few to see what I can get done today.  

[Steve83]

Ford F834 wrote

Maybe it had to do with GVWR? My ‘81 F150 is a surprisingly healthy 6100 lbs.

This is what my '83 Custom 300ci (IOW: exceptionally LIGHT for a Bronco) Bronco's VC label originally looked like (except the VIN):



BTW
Its current CURB weight is 1/4-ton heavier than its original GVWR:

Ford F834 wrote

maybe the NP 208 were shorter? Or didn’t hang down as far?

That's possible, but I don't think the difference would be significant enough to exclude the 1345.  The 1356 hangs down MUCH more than the 208.

Ford F834 wrote

I can’t remember if Bronco’s got the skid plate or not.

Yes, it was standard on '80-96 Broncos, and possibly '78-9.

Ford F834 wrote

Maybe I should buy one 😈

Uuuhh...  EVERYONE should!

Gary Lewis wrote

I could easily justify $800 for that!

That seems pretty steep for a Bronco in that condition.   I've never seen a floor console do that.

[Ford F834]

Geez! That’s a HEAVY Bronco! Why so much? My 4x4 straight six F150 I think was 4,460?

The brown Bronco looks really straight and no cancer even on the tailgate and fender arches. It has factory AC. Looks pretty original and not wheeled to death. With the rising prices on these I’d say $800 is a good deal... if it could be titled. Otherwise it’s a headache I don’t need. Does not matter I guess, the guy won’t message me.

Edit: re the console, that’s the curse of living in the UV belt. Not much rust cancer but the plastics can take it in the shorts! Luckily that’s easy to remedy compared to welding in new sheet metal.

Gary, I REALLY wish you were not so far. I would absolutely love to come help you and your brother get that engine in. Not that you need the help necessarily, but I would selfishly enjoy being there for it!

[grumpin]

They need to flip that Bronco, it's done on top!

Why is that heavy? My 1992 label says 6300 lbs. Front 2800, rear 3770.

[1986F150Six]

Ford F834 wrote

Gary, I REALLY wish you were not so far. I would absolutely love to come help you and your brother get that engine in. Not that you need the help necessarily, but I would selfishly enjoy being there for it!

Or, he could wait until September and there would be many hands to assist!

[Frank Wyatt]

My 2WD F 150's GVWR is 6100 lbs and rides like a log wagon as they say. Prayers for you and Janey, Gary.