Big Blue's Transformation

[Gary Lewis]

Probably true.  And the tiny port is part of what keeps it so quiet - sound can't get out for the air coming in.

[Nothing Special]

Gary e-mailed me and asked me to weigh in again on the current plans for Big Blue's on-board air.  As I understand, the current plans are for a Harbor Freight (Horrid Fate?  Hardly Great?) 110V air compressor powered by a 3000W inverter.

Capability-wise it seems really good.  Gary's estimate of 3 cfm at 40 psi is double the 1.45 cfm rating of my 12V compressor, and my compressor is only rated that at 0 psi.  I can't put a number on how much faster this will be than what I have, but it will be well over twice as fast, probably over 4x.  And since my setup is almost adequate (~15 minutes to air up 4 tires from 15 - 30 psi) 4x or more faster seems really good.

Also capability-wise, having 110V available will be nice.  I have a tiny inverter that plugs into the 12V power port (aka cigarette lighter for us old folk) that I got to recharge a camcorder battery back before everything came with 12V charging cords.  I've also used it to recharge my laptop battery when on a Scout trip.  And I've heard of people really liking being able to use electric drills and angle grinders when they break a steering knuckle on the Rubicon (but the on-board welder they use to power those tools has another use in that situation as well).

That said, I don't think that I'd go this route.  Not saying that you shouldn't, but I don't think I would.  The killer issue for me would be fitting it all on a Bronco.  That would be made worse by the fact that I'd still need a lower draw 12V system for flat towing, so I'd have to add the inverter and 110V compressor to my current setup.  You've got a lot more room and don't flat tow Big Blue, so you have different constraints.

The other issue for me is simply that it's not a common approach.  This isn't a very overwhelming reason, and if it's working well for Jim, that's certainly some track record.  But without a lot of people using something that was really designed for the purpose....  Again, I'm not saying that it's a bad idea, or that you shouldn't do it.  I'm probably just being overly conservative.  And also again, fitting it in is the killer for me, so I don't really get to decide on this last issue.  Who knows, maybe I'd come around too.  But you asked what I thought.


And by the way Gary, although I haven't posted on this thread in a while, I do log in pretty much every day, and I always look in on your build threads.  So feel free to call me out there too.  My wife and I now have separate computers, but still share an e-mail account.  We manage that by only having e-mail on her computer, so while you can still send me e-mail there, I won't necessarily get it any quicker than I'll see something on the board.

[ArdWrknTrk]

Welcome my fellow 'no bullnose' compatriot!

I use my 2000W (4K peak) to occasionally run my California Air compressor but I use it most any day in winter to run a 1100W Samsung microwave.

The inverter is intended to provide 120V.
The compressor is intended to make pressure, with a much higher duty cycle than any 12V unit I've seen.

The 6x16" tank will easily fit in the space above the frame rail that Gary has, and the pump is about the same size, mounted on four rubber isolators.

I believe Gary's plan was to bolt it inside the tool box and run a braided stainless line to the tank/regulator/cutoff module.

I don't really have any question it will work as it always has for me.

Having regular outlets and a USB charger is icing on the cake.

[Gary Lewis]

Bob - Thanks!  I understand the constraints on where to put things in a Bronco, especially an early one.  But as Jim said, I plan to put the compressor, and maybe the inverter, in the tool box where there is both room and protection from the elements.  So I have the room.

As for why others aren't doing it, part of that may be the fairly recent advent of these smaller 120v compressors with decent spec's.  When Jim first proposed this solution I did some checking on the older style compressors and the running and in-rush spec's were so high it would take a really big inverter to run them.  But when he pointed me at the California Air unit he runs on his inverter it was a whole different world.  The HF compressor pulls only 7 amps while running and 16 amps on in-rush which equates to 840 & 1920 watts, respectively.  Easily doable on the 3000 watt inverter I'm going to use.

But my main reason for asking you to weigh in was in the airing-up issue as you are the one that does that on a frequent basis.  Would this be enough air to make that exercise reasonably short in your estimation?  And it appears that it will be.  Great!

And I understand about the email and computer situation.  Janey now has her own email address 'cause I get so much "Ford stuff".  Anyway, I'm glad you are following along.  You've helped so much many times and I value your input.  So thanks!

[ArdWrknTrk]

Gary, that inrush is below the constant wattage my cheap HF 2000W Jupiter delivers.  

With a 3,000W inverter that has 6,000W surge I can't foresee ANY issues.

Of course, it will start squaking and shut down if the trucks battery runs low.

IGBT has changed welders and all types of transformers.
It's truly a new world out there.

And yes Bob, I thank you for sharing all your personal experience.
You've certainly opened my eyes to some things I hadn't even considered.

[Gary Lewis]

Jim - Having the regular 110v outlets and a USB charging port certainly will be icing on the cake.  But that has me re-thinking where to mount the inverter.  Perhaps behind the seat would be a good place.  That way I could run the USB power to a port on the dash, maybe replacing the ash tray, and could lean the seat forward to access 110 volts.

That would minimize the big 12v cables to run it, although I may not run cables big enough to provide the full 3000 watts when I don't need that much power.  But I'm on the fence on that.

And, as we've discussed, I may utilize the remote port by having a switch in the row of them above the radio to switch the inverter on and off.  It only pulls 1.2 amps while idling, so that's not an issue, but it might be handy to bring the compressor on that way.

[Gary Lewis]

Yep, I agree there shouldn't be problems.

As for the battery running low, my plan is to use the relay that currently parallels the two batteries to power the inverter since it is getting replaced with the Smart Isolator.  I could leave it wired such that it comes on in either Acc or Run, or I could wire it to the switch on the dash and just not power the inverter until I want it.

[ArdWrknTrk]

Yeah, I would want it in the cab.
The cable run is shorter, and there's a lot of flexing between cab and bed.

It's 6 1/2x 9 1/2x 12".
You could mount it outlets up and put the cables on the floor.
But I don't think I have 6 1/2" behind my seat.

[ArdWrknTrk]

The inverter is failsafe it CAN'T let you kill the battery with it.

[Nothing Special]

Gary Lewis wrote

....  But my main reason for asking you to weigh in was in the airing-up issue as you are the one that does that on a frequent basis.  Would this be enough air to make that exercise reasonably short in your estimation?  And it appears that it will be.  Great!

I haven't looked that much at air-flow specs of very many options, but I'm thinking that the only semi-reasonable option that might out-flow what you are looking at is a Power Tank.  Those are supposed to be incredibly fast.  But they aren't compressors, so once they are out of CO2 they are out until you get it recharged at a welding supply or dive shop.  They are supposed to give you several air-down / air-up cycles on a single charge, so they aren't as unthinkable as that first sounds.  But still, having the likelihood of running out at some point makes them unacceptable as an only system for me (and likely you).  Still, it's the secondary system that I might try to squeeze onto my Bronco if I get too annoyed by my current flow rate when I get bigger tires.

And no, I'm not saying this to get you to reconsider your current choice!

Gary Lewis wrote

....  Anyway, I'm glad you are following along.  You've helped so much many times and I value your input.  So thanks!

You're welcome!  I'm enjoying it too!

ArdWrknTrk wrote

....  And yes Bob, I thank you for sharing all your personal experience.
You've certainly opened my eyes to some things I hadn't even considered.

I'm glad I seem to be a net positive here!  Like most of us, I have my opinions.  I also realize that they are just that, opinions.  They aren't facts, and while they have some value, they don't make other, differing opinions wrong.  So I try to make it clear when I'm talking about opinions, and I try to give my basis so others can decide how much weight, if any, to give them.

By the way, I used to be on a different board where someone as a signature line had "If we have facts, let's use those.  If we only have opinions, let's use mine."  I was amused by it so I remembered it and thought I'd share.

[Frank Wyatt]

Gary, I found these people, http://aircompressorsdirect.com, while looking up submersible well pumps. They have the oil type and oil less type both with and without tanks. Maybe something like this, http://https://www.aircompressorsdirect.com/Puma-PD1012A-Air-Compressor/p82520.html?icn=RichRelevance&icl=product+page or there are others and they have all the pertinent information on the web site. You may have seen some of these before but on that site they have several brands to compare specs against. They also have 110 volt compressors as well as inflaters in both 12 volt and 110 volt. I'm going to be looking into a portable 12 volt compressor once I get other more pressing matters taken care of. My needs in a small compressor aren't as demanding as what your needs are in a small air compressor.

[Gary Lewis]

Frank - Thanks, but I've already purchased a compressor.  Having said that, I didn't get what I went for.  (Pour a cup of coffee, pull up a chair, and get ready for a tale.)

I went into Harbor Freight fully intending to buy the one Jim and I've been talking about, their 2 gallon Ultra-Quiet 1.2 HP unit that puts out 2.2 CFM @ 90 PSI into a 2 gallon tank and generates 60 dba of noise doing it.  And it has a max PSI of 135.  The list price is $170 and with Jim's help I had a coupon to get it for $150.  They had one in-box so I loaded it into my cart, which took a bit of doing.

Then I heard "Sir!  Sir!" and looked up and the lady at the register was motioning me over.  She whispered that they had the exact same unit back on the open-box table for 1/2 price.  A gentleman purchased it, got it home, and decided he needed a bigger one so brought it back.  The only downside was that it has no warranty, but I would have 5 days to return it if it didn't work.  So I hustled back and got it, placing it on top of the one in my cart and then put the other back.  Sure enough, when I checked out it was $88.  (The penny didn't drop at that point.)

We just got home and as I unloaded it I discovered that it is NOT the 1.2 HP unit.  Instead, it is its big brother that is rated at 1.5 HP and it puts out 4.0 CFM @ 90 PSI into a 4 gallon tank and generates 80 dba of noise.  Plus, it has a max PSI of 200.  I'm not sure whether to be elated or disappointed.  

I've done some measuring and the compressor will fit neatly into the tool box.  Yes, it is 9" wide as opposed to maybe 6" wide for the smaller one, but 3" isn't much to worry about.  And the tank is 7 1/2 tall by 18 1/2, so should fit under the fender from what I remember.  Plus, the 3000 watt inverter should handle it easily as it only pulls 14 amps when running, although the inverter should be here tomorrow so I can check it out.

One downside, other than the noise, is that the tubing that serves as the frame is welded to the tank as opposed to the tank having tabs and being bolted to the tubing on the smaller compressor.  Yes, I can cut the tubing off pretty easily, but it isn't quite as elegant.  On the other hand, there's no warranty to worry about.

So, what do y'all think?  This one looks like it'll work pretty nicely and has not only twice the CFM but it pumps up to 200 PSI into a 4 gallon tank.  So at full pressure it has 3 times the energy of the smaller one [(4 gallons x 200 psi)/(2 gallons x 135 psi)].  Keep it or return it and get the smaller and quieter one for almost twice as much?

[ArdWrknTrk]

Gary, if the tank is that small I'd say keep it.

It looks like a much longer stroke single stage compressor, with Teflon rings, so it might wear out faster, but who knows?
It's not as if you're going to be running it eight hours, five days a week.

Tank diameter and length fit within your envelope.

The Fortress compressors are a new line (Best) of HF' new good-better-best merchandising strategy.

Reducing your fill time and being able to use it for a burst of lug wrench or something certainly is a plus.

[Gary Lewis]

Jim - I think I agree, but am still working through things and taking input.

As said, the inverter should get here tomorrow and that will let me determine that it'll run the compressor - including re-start it under pressure.  And I'll test how long it takes to air up tires from 15 to 30 PSI with the larger tank and higher starting pressure.

Overall, this seems serendipitous.  I went in for one thing and wound up getting the next bigger one for roughly half the price.  And it appears to fit.  

[ArdWrknTrk]

The switch should have an unloader.
Compressor will never have to start under load.

I'm a bit uncertain what the use case is for this spot in the lineup.
Too much for just a trim gun or two, and not enough for nailing off sheathing.

200 psi is impressive!
Lug wrenches actually work when they're seeing 175.
With my portables usually regulated to 105 they don't work at all.

[Gary Lewis]

Yes, this thing seems to be an odd duck in the lineup.  It is branded Fortress, but isn't quiet nor light, like the others.

But it went right up to 200 psi w/o struggling.  In fact, it shut off a lot earlier than I expected it to.  I'm wondering if it might pump very well in the middle psi range.  I'll be checking that out on Saturday as tomorrow we'll spend helping at that funeral I mentioned.

[Frank Wyatt]

Good find there Gary.

[Gary Lewis]

Yes, I think I got lucky.  That unit lists for $220 on-line.

I'm hoping that part of the tubing can be used to mount the tank.  And that I can mount the control panel in the tool box above the compressor so everything is handy when you pop the lid.

But I'll have to relocate the on/off switch.  For whatever reason it isn't on the control panel but the compressor itself.  In fact, in the reviews on the HF site there were several comments about that being a problem.  So I'll move it or some other switch to the control panel.

[grumpin]

I agree, seems too good to pass up.

If it fits that’s great and more compressor than you planned on. As Jim said, you won’t be running it a lot so the noise should be tolerable.

[ArdWrknTrk]

Furnas were always the standard of industry for portables.
I know I DON'T have a spare one ATM.
Should be on the tank inlet.
Anywhere else seems out of place to me.