Upgrades To Big Blue For Overlanding?

[Gary Lewis]

Yes, I got the fuel lines with Huck.  But they are really just a big Y, with the supply of both tanks Y'd and going to the supply side of the filter, and from the filter to the regulator.  And the return side Y's from the tanks and goes to to return from the fuel rail.

So I can cut off bits an pieces from that to use and then graft on.  For instance, if the reservoir/valve was properly placed I could cut the supply and return lines just after they Y and put new connectors on to go from the reservoir/valve to the high-pressure pump.  But, that may only save a fitting or two and a few feet of line.

What were you thinking?

[85lebaront2]

Just exactly that, if you can place the pieces on dad's truck you may be able to simply buy some repair splices at a parts store rather then needing to run the whole thing. On Big Blue, if you can extend the existing lines (they will unbend with hot water) to where the reservoir will mount then you will only need the lines to the HP pump and filter and to and from the engine.

I had a set of lines like those, that is what I added the 35" to from the Ys forward to where the filter connected and the return came down.

[ArdWrknTrk]

Supply is 3/8, return is 5/16.

[grumpin]

ArdWrknTrk wrote

Supply is 3/8, return is 5/16.

Interesting! Thanks. Must be the low pressure.

[Gary Lewis]

Bill - Good thinking.  A quick check on Big Blue shows that all of his plumbing is there, meaning for both tanks and the 6-port valve, and it is using the nylon lines.  And the 6-port valve sits at the front edge of the front tank, about 27" back of the cross member.

It looks to me like the best bet would be to find a 1985.5/1986 5.0L or a 1987 - 89 truck with an EFI'd 4.9, 5.8, or 7.5L engine in a salvage and get the lines, reservoir/valve, pump, and filter - along with their brackets and shields.  I'll probably replace the pump, filter, and reservoir/valve, but the brackets, shields, and lines would be very helpful.

And, if not:

Tank to Reservoir/Valve: I'll use Big Blue's existing tank to 6-port valve lines from both the rear tank and the front tanks, although there may be a problem as one set of lines comes in from the bottom on the 6-port and I don't know where they come in on the reservoir/valve combo.  So I may have to cut the 90 degree ends off and put straight ones on.

Reservoir/valve to Pump: I'll probably have to make new lines for this application if I don't find them at a salvage.

Pump to Filter/Pump To Engine: I should be able to use the existing lines to the engine from Huck as I'll want to go up the back side of the engine just like on Huck to connect to the regulator and rail.  So I'll want to try to position the filter right where it is on Huck to facilitate that.

Does that make sense?

[85lebaront2]

Yes it does, the only reason I couldn't do that, the repair lines only come up to 24" so I would have had to go 24" + 11" (not available so 12") on each line between the Y and engine feed. I now have the 1995 supply and return (thanks Jim) so I can get them on the correct way.

[Gary Lewis]

Guys - I'm sorting and putting things away since I'm literally knee-deep in parts, and have come up with a question re hydro-boost brakes.  (This may be specifically to Jim.)  In the pic below I've connected the hydraulic lines to the pump from the 1995 F450 and am pretty sure I understand what each does.

But, just to make sure, all I need is a replacement line for the one that is crimped over, which is from the hydro-boost system to the sector box.  Right?




And, for posterity, here's the whole system:




And, here's the difference in the pumps - apparently just an extra return:




And, here's a plug for getting LOTS of parts.  The bracket from Huck is on the left.  

[85lebaront2]

Gary, I had several GM Diesel cars with hydro-boost systems. Plumbing was pump to hydro-boost, hydro-boost to gear. One return from hydro-boost to reservoir and one from gear. I would suspect that the extra nipple is the hydro-boost return and the gear uses the normal return port. Looks like all you need to use it is the hydro-boost to gear hose.

[Gary Lewis]

That's what I'm thinking as well, Bill.  The only difference is that the hydro-boost return goes where the gear usually returns as that's where the hose fits.  So the gear must return to the extra return port up on the neck.

[85lebaront2]

I will bet once you position it on Big Blue, you will probably find it fits better up top. Darth has the power steering return "cooler" on the cross member and the outlet goes right up into the bottom of the reservoir.

[Gary Lewis]

The problem, albeit minor, is that both the brake return and the steering return want to use the bottom return port.  I know the brake used that one on the 1995 F450 from whence the equipment came because that's exactly where the hose wants to go.  And the current return on Big Blue goes there as well.  So, one of those will need to change, and I'm sure it will be the steering return.  That's because it is just a simple hose while the brake hose is molded onto a metal line that screws into the hydro-boost system.

Anyway, that's a very minor problem.  

[grumpin]

Just a comment, My wife's 98 Suburban has Hydro Boost.

It was a long time before I even realized it!  

[ArdWrknTrk]

As do a lot of passenger cars like Lincoln's and Mustangs.

Gary,  You are going to really like having brakes that work.

Speaking of which, I noticed that my parking brake cables were frozen the other morning.
I have to address that and adjust those drums soon.

[Gary Lewis]

I wasn't aware that vehicles other than diesels and big trucks had hydro-boost.  But, thinking of that, I wonder what my wife's GLK has since it is diesel?

Anyway, I am looking forward to better brakes.  Big Blue's are just OK, but nothing to write home about.  This should make a big change - when the time comes.  I'm just planning at this point as I don't want to have him down for reconstruction when my son and I decide to take a weekend trip to try out this overlanding idea.  But, once we've done that and are committed then I'll tear into him.

[Nothing Special]

I've been out for a while (took my wife on a Caribbean cruise) so I'm behind on the threads here, and haven't read all of this one yet.  So I apologize if what I'm saying is out of date.

With a 3/4 ton truck you will want to air the tires down on the trail.  It really helps keep the suspension from beating you up.  I used to run 15 psi in 235/85-16 load range E tires on my CJ5 (yeah, not the best choice of tires for that vehicle).  That worked pretty well, but you might want to try 20 or so on Big Blue.

The main point of that is you will want on-board air to get the tires back up to road pressure.  I have a Viair electric on my Bronco.  I don't recall the model, but I'm pretty sure it's rated for 100% duty cycle (I know I think that's important and I don't think I'd have ordered this one if it wasn't).  it takes 15~20 minutes to bring four 33x10.50-15 tires from 15 to 35 psi, so it's not fast, but it works.

An air tank helps for a while, but then it slows you down.  I've got a 2.5 gallon tank on my Bronco.  If I get it up to 100 psi before I start airing up, the first tire gets to 35 psi very quickly, but by the second it's slowed down a lot, and then you're trying to fill the tire and the tank.  What I often do is fill one or two tires, then drive a little farther until the tank is full again before stopping to fill the others.

I've thought about a York, but the install does get more complicated, and as noted earlier in the thread, if you have trouble with it it can affect the engine.

There are better electrics, but the cost goes up a lot to get a really good 12V compressor.

Another interesting option is a CO2 tank (like PowerTank).  Not that cheap to buy, and you can only get maybe 12 - 16 tires filled before you need to get it recharged.  But really fast, and not that hard or expensive to get recharged (from what I hear).


And on the size, I took my '85 F-250HD on a fourwheeling / camping trip back in '94.  I took it over some pretty serious rocks, and on some really tight switchbacks (check out the road up Mount Antero in Colorado on YouTube).  It was a handful compared to my Bronco or my old CJ5.  But you need to get into really serious stuff before the size becomes a real problem.

[Gary Lewis]

Bob - Welcome back!  Hope the cruise was wonderful, and good plan to take your wife on a great vacation.  

Yes, I agree that I'll need to air-down, and had wondered how far down I would need to or could go.  But, there's always the airing back up.  Assuming your Viair system is the 10007, which is their constant-duty one, the CFM @ 30 PSI is about 1.5.  But the York is between 6 and 8 at even higher pressure, so would cut the time by a factor of 4 or more.

So, I'm interested in the York, or Tecumseh.  In fact, I have been interested in it for quite some time since Luke did it.  And, with what I found the other day I think it will be easy to make a bracket for the 460's with serpentine belt systems.  And, since I have a compressor and a portable air tank it should be a fairly inexpensive project.  About all I need is a new clutch with a serpentine pulley, some hose, and an oil trap.  

As for the mobility of the long-bed F250, everything I'm reading says that starting out with a Bronco, like I wanted to do, isn't the way to go.  Yes, they are certainly more nimble.  But, their GVWR doesn't allow loading them up like most people do.  In fact, what I've read says most people have their vehicles overloaded before they add passengers and fuel.  Don't think that'll be a problem on Big Blue.  And, apparently the roads or trails we want to take aren't technical enough to cause a problem.  I think we have a winner!

[85lebaront2]

Gary, a long time ago I was reading about using a York or Tecumseh twin for an air compressor, The suction chest on those goes into the sump so yes you would need an oil separator, but I seem to recall there was a way to block the passage, since the crankcase pressure would be pretty static due to being a vertical twin and just put a breather in place of one of the fill plugs and use motor oil in the sump, probably a slight overfill so the rods actually splash it around.

Get an old electric air compressor tank that will stand 90-100 psi, use a pressure switch to cycle the clutch off and on as needed once you activate it. Stick the tank outboard of the frame on the right side and you could even plumb air to both sides and ends.

[Gary Lewis]

Mine is the single cylinder, and should be the 10 ci version, not the 6 or 8, as the 10 is supposedly what Ford used in these trucks.  It is said to be extremely capable.

As for the tank, I had the perfect one.  A friend donated a compressor that would no longer pump up pressure.  But, a little research showed that the likely cause was broken reed valves.  So, for $15 I fixed it and will be taking it to my son.  However, I have a portable air tank that I never use and it is plenty big enough.  And I've been eyeing that exact spot on the right side.  As you say, a pressure switch to control it, and a switch in the cab to enable it.

As for the bearing on the clutch freezing and causing problems, I'm not changing the alternator's position at all, so I'll carry the original alternator belt and it'll fit over just the alternator if needed.  Problem solved.

[Nothing Special]

Gary Lewis wrote

....As for the mobility of the long-bed F250, everything I'm reading says that starting out with a Bronco, like I wanted to do, isn't the way to go.  Yes, they are certainly more nimble.  But, their GVWR doesn't allow loading them up like most people do.  In fact, what I've read says most people have their vehicles overloaded before they add passengers and fuel.  Don't think that'll be a problem on Big Blue.  And, apparently the roads or trails we want to take aren't technical enough to cause a problem.  I think we have a winner!

Yep, the cruise was great!

As to trails not being technical enough to cause a problem, they can be a lot more technical than you might think and still not be an insurmountable problem.  This is a picture of my old CJ5 on a trail in Colorado called Spring Creek Trail.  I drove my '85 up it as well (but don't have pictures of that).  And that was with stock size tires, no lift, open diffs and no winch.  It was an adventure!  But we did make it.  I don't see any overlanding in my future (we just bought a 28' motorhome a year ago), so I like the smaller size of the early Bronco.  But you can do an awful lot with an F-250.

(I guess I don't know how to post pictures here directly, but I think this link works to get the picture)

https://cimg7.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.ford-trucks.com-vbulletin/640x480/80-picture_php_pictureid_125617_b47ba984adbdc12a637d2a7b71e198293fa8a20f.jpg

[Gary Lewis]

Nabble doesn't like that pic's URL from FTE, so I down loaded it, hit Insert Image, then Choose File and picked it, then Insert Image and there it is.




Yes, that's technical.  But the '85 made it with open diff's. Here's a link to a trip several took to Utah, and this is the kind of country we are wanting to tackle.  Here's the toughest spot they got into, and they all made it - with open diff's.  So, I'm thinking that Big Blue's Trutrac diff's will help a lot in conditions like that.

However, one thing that has me wondering is the stiffness of the rear springs.  Maybe by the time we get the truck loaded there will be some give in the springs, but there sure isn't much now.  I'm wondering about removing a leaf or two and going with air bags since we will have on-board air.