Upgrades To Big Blue For Overlanding?

[Gary Lewis]

Thanks, Bill.  I think you may be right about the Delphi website being wrong.  Vernon bought those pumps for Big Blue, and somewhere someone said they are the right ones.  So, they can't have that much pressure.

I may call Delphi and see.  If they can't help I may just block the return on Big Blue so the hot-fuel handling orifice doesn't bleed off pressure and turn the regulator up to see what I can get with the current in-tank pump.

Thanks again!

[ArdWrknTrk]

Gary, I'm late to the party ( again ) because I didn't ask for notifications.

Plastic tanks were for C&C trucks. -narrower frame rails-
Metal tanks were for pickups.

So now I hope I'm subscribed.

[Gary Lewis]

Jim - I wondered where you'd gotten off to.  Ok, so the metal tank pumps are the ones I want to look at.  Thanks.

Didn't get Delphi called yesterday, but maybe today.  However, I'm wondering if it wouldn't be easier to rig up a test.

[ArdWrknTrk]

It's always easier to test and *know* the truth, than search and find some documentation that may (or may not) be accurate. .

[85lebaront2]

Jim, I fully agree with that, you can find any answer you want on the internet and at least half are wrong.

[Gary Lewis]

I agree, guys.  Which is why I didn't bother to call Delphi today.  My wife and I went to see Just Getting Started, which we'd give a 3 on a 5-point scale, went out to eat, visited someone in the hospital, went to Best Buy and Old Navy, and generally had a day out.

Maybe tomorrow I can test the pumps and see what I have.  But, I think I'd be a lot happier with 6 psi rather than 2 psi.  Perhaps the valve will switch more reliably with a bit more pressure.

Had another thought about the reservoir idea.  What about using one of the screw-on fuel filters between the 6-port valve and the HP pump?  That would provide probably as much reservoir as the reservoir/valve combo, and put a filter in ahead of the HP pump for its protection.

[85lebaront2]

The in-tank pumps have the sock on them that is all the newer pump modules use. The early (1985.5-1986) reservoir had a filter in it, the later ones do not. If you want to do that, I would get two regular large fuel filters and use one on each tank's supply to the reservoir. That way if you get some contaminated fuel you still have a clean filter for the other tank.

[Gary Lewis]

That's a good idea, Bill.  And, it should protect the 6-port valve.  

But, do you have a suggestion on the filter to use?  I keep finding diesel filters and not gasoline filters.

[85lebaront2]

I thought you were going with the reservoir rather than the 6 port valve? I had two in mind, one would be the standard old in-line fuel filter and use EFI high pressure hose and full circle clamps, the other was used by Ford on the high performance engines in the 60s and has a pretty good sized paper filter inside a steel canister and uses either 5/16" or 3/8" inverted flare fittings. A pair of those in the supply lines from the tanks could be checked and changed quickly if needed. Holley did sell them, they were also on a lot of Carter fuel pumps made for Ford, my Shelby had one, stuck down like an FE engine oil filter.

[Gary Lewis]

I was going with the reservoir-style valve since you said the high-pressure pump needed the reservoir to ensure it doesn't run dry.  But, if I put a screw-on filter 'twixt the LP pump and the valve then voila, there's a reservoir - right?

So, if that works then all I need is a Bosch HP pump as I have a new 6-port valve and two new in-tank pumps.  Sound like a reasonable plan?

Another approach would be to see if I can put 80 - 85 senders on the '90-style in-tank pumps which need no external switching valve nor frame-mounted pump.  But, if that fails on a trip then I'm probably out of luck getting replacement parts, where the way I'm going just replacement 1985/6 parts will work.

Thoughts?

[85lebaront2]

You would still need more capacity than just the filter, the reservoir has it's return to the tanks on the top so air drawn in by the LP pumps is purged to the tank supplying it. I believe it holds about a quart of fuel and the HP pump pickup tube goes to nearly the bottom of the bowl. I couldn't find the filters I was looking for, they would be easy to open and replace the elements in the field if needed.

[Gary Lewis]

In that case I'll probably just use the reservoir/valve combo and be done with it.  Lots fewer connections and I can get factory lines if I want.

Speaking of lines, do you recommend the Dorman kit, or go with EFI hose and clamps?

[Gary Lewis]

Ok, I think I've come to a decision - I'll use the Delphi FE0127 in-tank pumps that Vernon sent, and from there I'll use the 1985.5/86 5.0L EFI plumbing.  That means I'll use the reservoir/valve combo, the HP pump, and filter, just as Ford designed it.

Turns out the Delphi catalog is way wrong on the FE0127 in-tank pumps.  I have two of them NIB and one puts out 5 psi and the other closer to 7 psi - way off from the 36 psi their catalog shows.  So, I'll use those as the in-tank pumps to drive the reservoir/switching valve.  And they'll be on the sending units from LMC, with the 43-4084 shown on the right, below, with the little bracket for the pump just above the float for the much bigger high-pressure in-tank pump for the later trucks, like Huck.




Note that in the picture above the sending unit for the later model pump is laying to the side.  That's because I was investigating the possibility of swapping a Bullnose sending unit onto the Bricknose pump.  And, as shown below, that appears to be possible.  Both are retained by three tabs that are the same size and in the same location, as shown here:




And, if you do that you could probably also swap the float arms as they are held in the same way, as shown here.  But, I think that is too fiddly and would prefer to use the complete pump/sending unit instead of having to piece things together.

[85lebaront2]

If you want to do the nylon lines that Ford used, I would get one of the Dorman kits, that's what I did on Darth, something about needing 35 more inches of line on both supply and return.

BTW, in that picture, you have one bricknose front pump and one bullnose rear pump, interesting combination. This also begs the question, what are you going to do on dad's truck for fuel supply, if you want to keep the early gauges you will need to do the same thing there.

[Gary Lewis]

Which Dorman kit did you get?  There seems to be a million of them.

As for the pic, I pulled the front pump and sending unit out of Huck's tank today and compared it to the new one I have from Vernon.  What a difference in size!

And, I told you that I'm using Big Blue as a learning exercise for Dad's truck.  Whatever fuel system I come up with for Big Blue, assuming it works well, will go on Dad's truck.  Progressing on multiple fronts.  

[85lebaront2]

I will look tomorrow and get the number off it. BTW, the front pump from the huck tells me it originally had two tanks, the valve was a recall to cure cross fueling. If you aren't going to use any of it, it would make a nice spare for Darth. Go here: https://www.dormanproducts.com/p-27520-800-300.aspx?origin=keyword

[Gary Lewis]

Yes, Huck had two tanks and I have both of them.  But the rear pump doesn't work.  Anyway, if I don't use them, and I'm pretty sure I won't, they are yours.

As for the kit, that's the big one - $200.  But, it may well be worth it.  There are something like 10 of those connections on the reservoir/valve, they pump, and the filter.  I assume since there are both 3/8" and 5/16" that the supply is the 3/8 and the return is 5/16?  Also, I don't think those connectors work on the sending units that I'm going with, so is there a hose/nylon line conversion?

[grumpin]

I'm pretty sure that on everything I've worked on the supply line is smaller and return line is bigger.

[Gary Lewis]

Interesting.  I just assumed that the supply would be larger than the return as there would be more volume in the supply.  But, if they want to keep the pressure high then I could see a smaller line there, and then a bigger one to make the return easy.

Thanks.

[85lebaront2]

Gary, it has the Ford connectors if I remember correctly. I know the stuff can be a royal PITA to get together as the line doesn't want to stretch enough to get over the fittings. If nothing else you can salvage the old fittings by carefully cutting the line off them. You also, on Big Blue only need to modify the area that connects to the present 6 port valve. Did you get all the fuel lines with the huck?