Rethinking The 3G Conversion Pages/Process

[ArdWrknTrk]

R&D is never free in the real world. 💡

If someone doesn't have a business plan and hobbles themselves with inadequate equipment it doesn't mean a product can't be profitable.

There's a reason Shapeways charges what they do.
It's better process, better equipment, better material, all the overhead of a shop and staff to fettle them and package for shipment.

[ArdWrknTrk]

Hasn't Deren bought a bunch of switch bezels from the Blue Truck guy there in the PNW?
Isn't he a member here answering questions about some of his offerings?

Maybe you should tag him about the possibility of creating a plug n play 610 to 3G harness?

[grumpin]

Gary Lewis wrote

It would be great if someone would make them.  I designed the adapter that Tim Meyer is selling to put a ZF5 behind the M-block and am happy he's doing that.  And I'd be thrilled if someone started making a 3G harness for the Bullnose trucks.  I don't need nor want any recognition from it.

But I need to make a proof-of-concept first.  Hopefully I can get the two projects I'm doing on Big Blue at present, the new seats and relays for the HVAC blower, done soon and turn to this.

However, I'm drawing a blank on the Blue Truck guy.  Can someone remind me who that is?

I can't remember his user name, dang it!

He is Blue Truck Parts on eBay.

[dirtymac]

I'm liking the idea of dealing with this in the engine bay versus in the dash.  My harness is not great, but if I could source or make my own replacement harness, I would probably opt for that.  The dash is a very tight space and on an older truck that's just asking for things to brake, the less I open the dash, the better.  

Another observation I've made is that the wiring going into my cab around the brake booster doesn't look that bad.  The further you get from there the worse things get, especially anything going over or around to the battery side.  I don't know how many folks are in the same position.  I can certainly see myself splicing new wires from the booster area to the starter relay well before I took the dash apart for the nth time.

[dirtymac]

I bought his gear shift cable and have been very happy with it.  I've already had to disconnect it 4-5 times and it goes back just right each time.  I did have some issues with the included 3-D printed clip but it worked well enough with my one original clip that I've made no complaints.

[ArdWrknTrk]

Perhaps it was you that I tried to help by pointing out C-610 on the EVTM diagram.

It would be great if I could locate the right connector (for 610) in the Motorcraft pigtail catalog.

Then it would just be a matter of figuring out the correct lengths to reach the fender relay stud for Y 37 and the 3G for the LG/R exciter* wire. (Damned autocorrect)

Unfortunately my truck never came with a plug like that, because it never came with an ammeter.

Gary????  😉

[Gary Lewis]

His screen name is thisoldpart and I've sent him an email asking if he'd join us in this discussion.  And I'm going to tag him in this post to give him a link right here so he doesn't have to read everything.

But what we are looking for is someone to make up a replacement cable to plug into the C610 spot and connect to a 3G alternator.  That would make converting to a 3G much easier and require the user to only source: a charge cable; a megafuse holder & fuse; a voltmeter converted from a Bullnose ammeter by Rocketman.  In fact, whomever makes the cable could sell the other bits as well.

We should note that this only works on the trucks which actually have gauges, which was an option on Broncos up through 84 and on pickups through 85, and became standard thereafter.  But that's a whole bunch of trucks.  (We haven't addressed the trucks w/o gauges, but it looks like going to a 3G on one of those would be easy.)

If we can find someone willing to do this, and if we can find a source for the C610 connector, then I'm willing to make a prototype, although it may be made out of an existing harness for simplicity.

And I'll try to get a closeup of the connector later today and see if I can find it in the pigtails catalog.

[ArdWrknTrk]

Look at pgs 20-23 of the 2016 catalog for 4 cavity connectors.
The later 2020 catalog does not include many of the older ones

[ArdWrknTrk]

Having a spare ammeter sitting with RCCI (like Cory said he did) would make it so members could do this all at once, rather than shipping the instrument out and waiting for it's return.

[Gary Lewis]

Thanks, Jim.  I was using the 2015 catalog (we have both the 2015 and 2016 on the page at Documentation/Electrical/Connectors), but it looks to have the same options, just starting on a different page.  I'll look to see if I have a harness and get a good pic of the connector when I go out to the shop in a bit.

As for the ammeter, whomever builds the cable could have a deal with Rocketman.  But I actually sent him a spare years ago, although he won't remember it.  Still, I'm sure something could be worked out.

[dirtymac]

Jim, you and I discussed in another thread my issues with my Duraspark II harness.  That is a mess that I would not want to try and rebuild from scratch.  The alternator harness, on the other hand, I think is a better candidate since it can be more easily removed and is somewhat less complicated.

In my case, my C-610 connector is in ok shape.  The rest of the wiring is a different story.  I haven't opened it up yet because it's a mess of electrical tape and several cut/bare wires that I have not identified.  I think the connector has enough good wire on it that I could splice it into what is needed for the 3G.  With all of that said, if a new harness was available or easily built, I would go with that option.

On a side note, my Duraspark harness from Painless arrived this week.  I'll send pictures on the other thread when I can.

[Gary Lewis]

Painless might be another option for a vendor.

[ArdWrknTrk]

I know I asked Big Brother/Jeff in that discussion for his NAPA part number for the harness side of the DSII distributor connector.

Hopefully Gary will turn up the engine side of C-610.

If you have 610 it should be as easy as bringing 37 (Y) to the fender relay or megafuse and bringing the exciter wire to the 3G's regulator plug.

[Gary Lewis]

Ok, here's a photo dump of the engine-side C610 harness I pulled off an '85.

First is the whole harness with the tape removed and callouts for the connections.  Then a closeup of a failed S203 - yikes!  Then several shots of the connector itself just to document it, and that includes the ID # of D3AB 14489-CB.  Unfortunately my 1980 cross reference's closest match is D3AB 14489-TA, which crosses to PN D3AZ 14489-T, and I can't find any hits on that so I don't know that it is correct.  Nor can I find anything like it in the MPC or the pigtails catalog.  Maybe someone else can?

[ArdWrknTrk]

That looks like the DS-II connector

[Gary Lewis]

It is similar, but they are keyed differently.  I am guessing that the connector itself was never sold separately.  The terminals aren't removable - at least I can't get the rubber on the back side of the connector to let go from the wire and slide back.  It acts like it was molded on.

And with the listing of the harness from the alternator to the regulator, shown below, I think that you replaced the whole thing.  (It also looks like we've found a few more errors in the MPC as an ammeter and an oil pressure warning light combo wasn't offered from what I can tell.  Surely that should read "XX alternator and warning lights".

[ArdWrknTrk]

Like I said the distributor connector is keyed different than the module.....
But you can lop off the key and fit them together.
Maybe we would kill two birds with one stone if we found the right plug?

Someone must make them

We need a closeup of the Painful connector so we can look for die marks and/or the actual manufacturer ID.  🧐

[dirtymac]

So the keyed portion you're referring to is the connector ears that keep the two sides attached?

I had a look at the harness Painless sells.  It sounds like they bypass the C610.  They do mention the ammeter situation with higher amp alternators and how to bypass it.  They do not mentioned the electric choke from my situation.

[ArdWrknTrk]

No
Look closely
Gary has one at 6:00 and the white one is at about 8:00

[BigBrother-84]

ArdWrknTrk wrote

I know I asked Big Brother/Jeff in that discussion for his NAPA part number for the harness side of the DSII distributor connector.

Jim, I looked everywhere and do not find my NAPA bill.
I plan to stop there and check with the guy if he could find my history.