New Tires For Big Blue

[Gary Lewis]

I'm now thinking about what tires to put on Big Blue as his Cooper DISCOVERER S/T MAXX tires are toast.  So I'm asking for your input.  But first I need to 'splain what I'm looking for.

As BB is for overlanding the tires have to be good offroad.  Last fall my brother and I took BB to Ouray and ran most of the Jeep trails there.  This fall my son and I are going to New Mexico overlanding.  So while the offroad capabilities have to be good, the onroad capabilities need to be decent since it is a long way to Ouray or Santa Fe from here.  In other words, I don't want a noisy tire.

At this point in time I think I'm looking at these tires, but would look at others if you think I should:

YOKOHAMAGEOLANDAR M/T G003:  This is said to be an offroad tire, but its onroad #'s seem to match those of the others.  And this link takes you to the Tire Rack test results.

FALKEN WILDPEAK A/T3W:  This link should take you to the Tire Rack test results on this tire.

BFGoodrich ALL-TERRAIN T/A KO2: Link to Tire Rack test results.

So I'm looking for any and all input I can get.  Even if you've given it to me before I'd like to have it here in one thread to make it easy to get my head around.

Thanks!

[grumpin]

I have the BFG All Terrain KO/2 on my Suburban and my Bronco. And I will put them on my GMC when the time comes.

I like them, not noisy to me, and the big plus for me is how they handle on ice and snow. They wear good, last IIRC, 65k to 75k.

[HBF84]

Gary,

I agree with Grumpin/Dane… I’ve put two sets of them on my Jeep TJ and will continue to do such.  And, now that HBF has arrived to Hawaii and I have the limited slip in the rear end, I’ll be putting them on the rear wheels for better traction.

[Gary Lewis]

Thanks guys.  But everyone please keep the cards and letters coming.

Also, I'm going back and editing my first post in this thread with links to more info on each tire as I find it.

[Nothing Special]

I've heard good things about the Falkens, but no experience with them, so take that for what it's worth.

I've mentioned this before, but after 5 sets of BFG A/Ts, my first set of KO2s was my last.  They are the loudest  non-mud tires I've ever had, and they tended to pull back and forth in grooves on the freeway.  I know others love them, and I'm not saying they're wrong, just offering another perspective.

edit to add:  I should say that with a bunch of years 'wheeling with BFG A/Ts I'm generally happy with them there.  There have been a number of times I've wished for something more aggressive (generally when I'm in mud or on Colorado rocks).  But they're good in most conditions, and (prior to the KO2 in my experience) were a good compromise between good off-road performance and really good on-road performance.  Now that the on-road performance isn't what I want I'm less willing to accept the compromise off-road.

Milestar Patagonia tires are one that I've started seeing a LOT on YouTube in the last couple of years.  The M/T is a pretty mild tread for a mud tire and seems like a pretty good all-around tire (that's the one I see the most).  There are also progressively milder M/T-02, X/T, A/T Pro and A/T R.  People seem to say it's a class A (or at least really high class B) tire at a class C price.  But again, no personal experience.


Not suggesting these for you, but I went with ProComp Xtreme M/T2 on my Bronco the last time I got tires.  The jury is still out on their highway performance.  they aren't horribly loud, but they definitely aren't quiet.  And I haven't got rid of the vibration yet (I'm hoping balancing beads work).

And unless the ProComps pan out well I think I might go with BGF M/Ts the next time my Bronco needs tires.  But I don't have any experience with the KM3s either.  And again I'm not saying they'd be a good A/T for you.

[Gary Lewis]

I went through Tire Rack's decision making guide and got these results: FIRESTONE DESTINATION X/T; GENERAL GRABBER A/TX; & TOYO OPEN COUNTRY A/T III.  But in watching the video about the Firestone they mentioned a high-pitched whine and I didn't like that.

So I called Tire Rack and the gentleman I drew was less than helpful.  He was polite but really gave me no help to speak of.  For instance, when I asked about the Geolander's on-road performance he said "You have to pick your poison.  If it is a good off-road tire it won't be as good on-road as a street tire."  

I was expecting him to say something like "That tire is designed for max off-road traction and isn't really good on-road."  Or "That's a really good combination tire but it is noisy."  But instead I got nothing definitive whatsoever.  

[Gary Lewis]

Thanks, Bob.  I'll follow up on those other tires.

[Gary Lewis]

I'm getting a bit frustrated with Tire Rack, both their customer support awa their website.  On the website you can compare several tires, but you can't get more than 3 on the screen at a time.  And if you try to print that screen you get a floating banner that covers some of the results and I can't figure out how to get rid of it.  But then I realized that the comparo info is from customers, and it isn't likely that any one of them has good quantitative information regarding two different tires, so when they rate a tire as low in noise or high in off-road traction it probably isn't kosher to compare that rating to someone else's rating on another tire.

However, a bit more poking around on their website found a page like the one below where they compare the tire you selected with two other tires.  But two other tires they picked, not ones I picked.  

However there appears to be quantitative info on those pages, or at least is info from people who apparently test tires for a living and not average users like us.  So hopefully the data will be something that can be compared.  Anyway, I'll poke around some more and see if I can come up with comparable data for the tires we mention on here and try to create a spreadsheet that allows us to see them in one go.

[Gsmblue]

I have KO2's on my Bronco, but the worst it sees is gravel road. The noise does not bother me as the exhaust is pretty loud.

My friend put Falkens on his Sprinter and said they are the best tires he has had on it. Does great in the dirt and snow according to him.

I have Wrangler Duratracs on my F150. Rubbish in the ice, great on dirt and snow. I prefer the KO2's

[Machspeed]

I have KO2's as well. Can't vouch for them off road, but they a quiet on the highway. For my needs, they are perfect.  

[Rusty_S85]

KO2`s for me, only draw back for me is I hate the aggressive shoulder which hits my suspension when turning lock to lock which I never had with the now discontinued KO1`s.

But for an all terrain tire they have got to be the quietest and softest riding all terrain tires Ive seen to date.  Other brands you can hear the howl of the tires rolling down the pavement but Ive never heard it with the KO1s or the replacement KO2s.

As far as lasting goes, I dont put enough miles on any of my vehicles to wear them out before they age out and start to get hard and need to be replaced.

[Nothing Special]

I've got about 50K miles each from about 8 sets of the BFG tires I've had on 4 different trucks.  The original M/T and all three generations of A/T, mounted on an '85 F-250, a '95 F-150, an '02 F-350, and a '97 F-250.  They've all given me 50K.

On the Bronco I haven't done as well, but I'm not going to blame the tires for that!

[Gary Lewis]

Ok guys, lets see what this looks like. Hopefully you can see it, but it is surely going to take a true computer and not a cell phone to make it work for you. Sorry.

This is mainly from Tire Rack as that's where all of the ratings came from. And in digging out these ratings and creating this spreadsheet I learned a bit. First, that there are two categories: On/Off-Road All-Terrain, or A/T for short, and Off-Road Maximum Traction or M/T for short. And the M/T tires don't do as well on the road, but do better off the road.

However, that's really not quite fair as none of these ratings are for true off-road conditions. So I started looking at reviews elsewhere, and have started including links to those at the bottom of the sheet, and will continue to work on them as I can.

At first blush the Yokohama Geolandar A/T GO15 looks to be the hands-down winner. But then looking at pics of that tire several times I'm thinking it looks much more like a street tire than others, like the KO2 for instance. Given that, I started looking at the Geolandar M/T G003. Unfortunately I've not found any tests on Tire Rack to get the rating #'s. But the reviews I'm finding like it a bunch and say it is relatively quiet. So I'm still looking.

Please continue to provide input, and tell me what you think of the spreadsheet as well.

[Nothing Special]

It doesn't surprise me that the Geolandar A/T scores highest on the street since, as you point out, it looks like a street tire.  It might be fine for some off-road use, but it doesn't look like something I'd suggest for what you are looking for.

On the other hand, the Geolandar M/T looks more aggressive than I'd have suggested for you.  Looks can be deceiving with modern tire designs, but that doesn't look like a quiet tire to me.  Maybe it is, but I'd be concerned that people are saying "it's quiet for a mud tire" rather than "it's quiet".  That said, it looks like a tread I'd be interested in, so if it's good enough on the street for you it should be fine off-road.

Saying that, I don't know much about Yokohama, and I really don't see YouTubers running them.  That may not mean anything, but then again, maybe it does.

[Nothing Special]

... and I saw that in your "... Transformation" thread you paraphrased my first post in this thread as "anything but KO2s."  I get that was likely some hyperbole, and don't think I'm at all offended.  But that isn't what I meant to convey.  I'm not a fan of the KO2, that's definitely true.  And I can't see my getting them again.  But as I noted above, I know that others love them and I'm not saying they're wrong.  They are a really popular tire, and that's got to be for good reasons.  But they didn't work out for me.  My experience is real, but it doesn't negate everyone else's.

[Gary Lewis]

Bob - I'm right there with you.  The A/T isn't what I'm looking for, and the M/T may be too much.

So I'm still researching.  My son reminded me about Expedition Portal, and it dawned on me that it made sense to listen to people who do what I'm planning on doing.  So I went there and they had exactly what I was looking for - except that it was done in 2014 and most, if not all, of the tires they tested have been replaced.  However, there was a note in the middle of that test that said they'd just gotten in the KO2 and would be doing a test on it.  Sure enough, I've found a couple of reviews on Expedition Portal and some elsewhere.  So here goes:

Inside Expedition Portal I found these two.  You may not be subscribed to EP so I'll capture some of their statements here:

NMBR's Long-term BFGoodrich KO2 Review: 15,000 Mile Report:

Summary: "As mentioned in the (May) 2,000 mile KO2 review (LINK:) the tires provide exceptional traction in a variety of challenging conditions and terrain while still maintaining excellent pavement manners. These strong characteristics have remained unchanged over the past eight months and 15,000 miles."

Sidewall Durability: "In technical off-pavement driving situations where the tire tread is not in full contact with the terra firma, and using the sidewalls for traction is necessary, the BFGoodrich KO2’s sidewalls hold strong."

Traction, Tread & Mileage: "It is official, the BFGoodrich KO2 has equal or better overall traction characteristics as the BFGoodrich KM2."

Pavement Manners: "The BFGoodrich KO2 remains predictable and stable. Cornering is excellent for a 37-inch tall tire. Since the May 2,000-mile review, the preferred street air pressure has come down to 28 PSI. This puts all but a quarter inch of the tread in contact with the pavement while providing a decent ride on New Mexico’s pothole riddled byways. While the tires were fairly quiet rolling down smooth highway when brand new, they produce slightly more noise with 15,000 miles of use—not really a concern or complaint, just an observation. The KO2’s are still quieter than a new set of KM2’s. Balancing has been undramatic; no tire cause wandering, negative feedback or vibrations can be detected."

Tire Wear Characteristics: "While keeping the basic overall interlocking tread block appearance of the previous KO all-terrain tire, BFGoodrich has heavily modified the tread rubber compound of the KO2 to provide a 100% longer on dirt tread life expectancy with the new KO2—a figure derived from extensive Baja development and third party testing. Given the hard life the NMBR Rubicon’s BFGoodrich KO2 tires have lived in a relatively short period if tune, the treads are in good condition."

BFGoodrich All-terrain KO2s:

"These tyres are warranted for 50,000 miles and that’s pretty impressive, especially when that’s near enough exactly what I got out of mine. They are a premium option, yet I can say with absolute confidence that they’re worth every penny (or dollar for my American friends)."

"I know a number of individuals who opted for a more aggressive tyre (such as BFGs mud-terrain), with the hope that the chunkier tread would translate as better performance on technical trails. However, this is wrong-founded, as a more intricate tread pattern will often find grip where big knobby tyres will not. The MT may marginally outperform the AT on mud, but the trade-off will be significantly increased road noise and compromised traction on almost every other surface. I’m in no way discrediting the ability of an MT in the correct environment, but I would make the case that most overlanders travel on widely diverse surfaces. Subsequently, an AT tyre is superior. I’ve found my KO2s to be surprisingly quiet during highway miles, very impressive when aired down on mud/sand/snow, and in 50,000 miles, I’ve not conceded a single puncture."

Elsewhere: These reviews don't require a subcription:

Dirt Lifestyle: BFG KO2 Long Term Review!:

Mud: "Probably a 4 out of 10.  If you are an overlander and just occasionally see mud ... these are fine for that."

Road Manners: "To me that is the most impressive part about this.  These are a legit off-road tire and they are still so quiet after all these miles..."  "These are like a 9 out of 10 as far as far as a road tire."

Sand: He took the family to the beach and he was "very impressed".  But he admits that's not the best test, although that is the best test he could do.  "I think this is between a 6 and a 9."

Snow: "Snowy roads, these are outstanding."  "At least a 6 out of 10."

Rocks: "I am not being overly generous when I say this is a great rock tire." 8 out of 10.

Overland Site: BF Goodrich KO2 Review":

Pros:
Staggering Traction capability
Longer tread-life
Suitable for all season and all roads
Ruggedly built sidewall
Comes with chip, cut, and tear-resistant tread compound
Very quiet and comfortable on both on and off-road
Comes with 6 years of warranty

Cons: Might be pricier compared to other brands. But, the quality justifies the high price.  Limited Compatibility.

Given all of that, if I had to buy today it would probably be the KO2's.  But I don't so I'm still researching.  And, Bob, I'm keeping everything you've said in mind.

[Gary Lewis]

Nothing Special wrote

... and I saw that in your "... Transformation" thread you paraphrased my first post in this thread as "anything but KO2s."  I get that was likely some hyperbole, and don't think I'm at all offended.  But that isn't what I meant to convey.  I'm not a fan of the KO2, that's definitely true.  And I can't see my getting them again.  But as I noted above, I know that others love them and I'm not saying they're wrong.  They are a really popular tire, and that's got to be for good reasons.  But they didn't work out for me.  My experience is real, but it doesn't negate everyone else's.

Sorry - Just saw that.  And thanks for clarifying things for me.  I sit corrected.

And you are right, it is a very popular tire so there must be a reason for that.

I've just spent most of the day researching tires when I intended to be researching trails in New Mexico.  So I think I'm going to cool the tire search a bit and move on trails.  I really need to figure out which trail(s) we are going on in October.  

But, I'm still wanting input!  Please!

[Rusty_S85]

Another thing about the KO2`s, they have a self cleaning tread, if you get rocks in the tread they will be thrown out when you go down the road at speed.  They are not like other AT tires Ive had in the past where I have to use my pocket knife to dig rocks out.  Since I got the KO2`s Ive never had to dig a rock out again.

That might be a consideration for you seeing as the thrown rocks will hit the under side of your truck from time to time if it doesnt get slung straight behind you.

Another thing I noticed which I cant get photos online as they are all stock photos but if you get the KO2 in a P-Metric size like say P265/75R15 the tire will look completely different style wise than the similar sized 31x10.50-15 tire.  I noticed this when I saw another truck get KO2s as I was getting mine and theirs were similar size but P-metric and they just looked way less aggressive in the tread.

[Machspeed]

Look closer at the Faulken Tires. When I was looking at tires for my truck, I had this narrowed down to the KO2's and Faulkens. The Faulken tires I was looking at, at the time, had great reviews. I went with the KO2's because I could get them easily and cheaper at Discount Tire, where I get all my tires. If I'm on the road and something happens with a tire, it's easy to find a dealership.

Back to the Faulkens.....the other Doc I work with put a set on his 2020 GMC and I really liked the look of them. They were also relatively quiet which is a must for me. Dropped his fuel mileage down a bit, though.  

And that's another thing, I'd be looking at fuel milage. You are going to be driving that truck far more on the road than you are on the trails. With gas at $5/gal that is something to consider. It may be meniscal between all terrain tires, but I'd be looking at it. That, and road noise. No way I want to hear those noisy tires on a long road trip.    

In regard to tire issues, I had a set of very good Michelin performance tires on my Focus ST. They were pricey but I loved them. When they went bad, I replaced them with the exact same tires, which turned out to be horrible. They started out great but within a few thousand miles they made all kinds of noise and such. Ultimately, I had Discount Tire pull them and put their brand tires on it and I've been pleased with them. Gave me a nice refund on the Michelin set too. Another reason why I use Discount Tire. Having said that, I suppose one can get a lemon even in tires. So far, l like my KO2's.    

[Gary Lewis]

Rusty - I do get rocks stuck in the Coopers, so I'm glad to see the KO2's don't seem to do that.  

And I wasn't aware there are two different, but similar, KO2's.  However I'll be going with the LT285/75R16's, which are 33", so that shouldn't be an issue.

John - I've not ruled out the Falken, but now realize that the way I was searching didn't really include it.  So I'll do some more searching to see what I find.

Looking at Tire Rack's data in my spreadsheet the Falken didn't do quite as well as the K02 in most categories, but bested the K02 in both G-Force dry and wet.  Also, I note that at Tire Rack it cost $32/tire more than the K02.

As for MPG, only one of the several-tire tests that Tire Rack did includes MPG, and it didn't include the Falken.  So I can't compare the K02 to the Falken.  But here's what they said about the group that includes the K02: