New Guy here, anyone seen my paddle

[26ftcobraBBF]

Hello all,
I feel so greatful to have found this forum. I come to you from the odd state of Oregon. I've owned my 1985 Ford 7.5L for about 2 years now. Just recently ive been working hard at getting her running how she deserves to. I stumbled upon your forum trying to sort out a fuel problem that this one guy tryed to fix. You may know him, first  
name Jerry last name Rigged. Well to make a long story short Mr Rigged failed at his attempt of a repair. So what I have is this...
-1985 Ford Cobra E350 Econoline class C 26' motorhome with a carbureted 460.
- Hot Fuel handling package, inertia switch, fuel/ vapor seperator, duel tanks with electric fuel pump in each.
The observations/issues/ my assumptions
The issue is I'm having a hard time keeping the float bowls on the carb full on medium to heavy acceleration. If I get into the throttle any more than halfway she falls on her face.
I've observed a cheap looking no name inline 12V fuel pump on the frame rail just upstream from the 6 port tank transfer switch. Also the rear tank fuel tank guage don't work.
I'm assume at some point the pump, or pumps quit working and instead of trouble shooting a wiring issue , or dropping the tank to replace the pumps, Mr Rigged just did what he knows best.
So I'm here today because I'm a carpenter, not a mechanic. I'm hoping to be pointed in a direction that would help me to trouble shoot my issue from start to finish.
Thank you for reading, I'm looking forward to being apart of this forum and will help where I can.

[myrl883]

Welcome to Oregon. It's a great place, except for her highness Katie...

The most common fuel starvation problem that affects carbureted 460s with electric pumps is a failure of the vapor separator. Located directly in front of the carburetor, there should be a small metal part with 3 fuel lines attached to it. If you need one, try to find a E3TZ-9N176-B, as it was the most effective one available. These were a very common failure on this application. Make sure that it hasn't been eliminated or relaced with a fuel filter - I've seen that more times than I can count!

[1986F150Six]

myrl883 wrote

The most common fuel starvation problem that affects carbureted 460s with electric pumps is a failure of the vapor separator. Located directly in front of the carburetor, there should be a small metal part with 3 fuel lines attached to it. If you need one, try to find a E3TZ-9N176-B, as it was the most effective one available. These were a very common failure on this application. Make sure that it hasn't been eliminated or relaced with a fuel filter - I've seen that more times than I can count!

Ooops, I just noticed the one I provided a link for is: -A, not-B.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Ford-OEM-Fuel-Shut-Off-Valve-E3TZ-9N176-A-NOS/324363989887?epid=1424840248&hash=item4b8599b37f:g:6KMAAOSwaAdfpcfS

[Gary Lewis]

Personally I'd use a return-style fuel pressure regulator to replace the vapor separator.

[ArdWrknTrk]

It's the Tee fitting just to the right of the distributor in your photograph.

Leave it soaking in lacquer thinner for an hour and blow the sludge out with compressed air.
The screen gets blocked up eventually.

There are no moving or wear parts inside.

[kramttocs]

myrl883 wrote

 If you need one, try to find a E3TZ-9N176-B, as it was the most effective one available.

This is the smallest one, right? So higher pressure?

[26ftcobraBBF]

I've been looking for a new one, there hard to come by. When I seen your link I clicked immediately shot over to ebay, clicked by now...... Then back to the forum to continue scrolling then seen your next post saying it was the wrong one Then back to ebay to cancel as fast as I purchased. Haha...
Thank your all for the words of wisdom, the vapor seperator was an issue at one time, but it's free and clear now and still having fuel starvation issues. The screen inside of it is rattling around inside from I guess somewhat of an agressive cleaning. So I'm looking for another if anyone has as link or know where to purchase a blue dot.
What else could it be. Would it take much effort to pull fuel through an inoperable pump? A mechanic told me,"there called pumps, not sucks, so your pump should be as close as possible to the fuel. It's made to pump the fuel forward not suck it through as transfer switch, and 5 foot of fuel line."
Makes senses I suppose. Thoughts?

[26ftcobraBBF]

Might be my only option. I can't seem to find one. I talked to some ole boy who has done just that and is happy with the results.

[ArdWrknTrk]

kramttocs wrote

This is the smallest one, right? So higher pressure?

I think this is the medium (blue dot) one.

There are three.

Red dot= .045 orifice
Blue dot= .065 orifice
White dot= .090 orifice

White is indicated for cases of extreme vapor lock.
Pressure is lower (easier boiling) but more cool fuel is circulated from the tank

[kramttocs]

Found this on a TSB article. Wouldn't the psi increase for E3TZ-B mean it's the smaller one? I've never looked into these much. Just cleaned/blew mine out and reinstalled.

If previously tested pressure at the carburetor was below 3.5 psi., install one of the following vapor separators to increase the fuel pressure.
E3TZ-9N176-A gives 1.0 psi. increase at the carburetor (RED DOT).
E3TZ-9N176-B gives 2.0 psi. increase at the carburetor (BLUE DOT).

If the fuel pressure at the carburetor was too high or the concern still exists, replace the vapor separator with vapor separator E0TZ-9N176-B.
If the pressure is still incorrect, check the fuel return line for blockage. If the return line is clear, it will be necessary to replace the pump/sender assembly.
After service is completed, recheck pressure at the carburetor to confirm correction of the concern

[updated - was confusing myself]

[ArdWrknTrk]

Cool scott!
I hadn't ever seen the numbers associated with the different vapor separators, just knew of the three colors and that white flowed the most in order to circulate more fuel.

But it makes total sense that the more restrictive ones would be used to boost pressure to the float valve.

Thank you for that!  

[kramttocs]

Me neither!
For reference (and if Gary wants to pull it into the TSB page ) it was from here [link removed - please see the Hot Fuel Handling tab here]

[Gary Lewis]

kramttocs wrote

Me neither!
For reference (and if Gary wants to pull it into the TSB page ) it was from here

Why not use our own?  I have all of the TSB's, just don't have them scanned in.  So I scanned this one in and put it on the Hot Fuel Handling tab at Documentation/Fuel Systems/460 Fuel Systems.  

[kramttocs]

Even better! Thanks for adding it.

[Gary Lewis]

I try not to put things like that from All Data on here since it isn’t legal as you are supposed to pay a fee to get to it. And since I have all the TSB’s why not?

Now I need to go add it to the TSB’s set of pages so, eventually when Google indexes it, people can search and find it here. And I put in key words, like the part numbers, to make it easier to find.

[kramttocs]

Good to know. I removed my link and referenced the internal page

[Gary Lewis]

It isn't illegal to link to something that's on the internet.  So your link was fine, but what you did is even better.  

However, for me to post the All Data page isn't kosher.  They could demand that it be taken down.  So it is safer for us to put copies of the stuff we own out there.  Then the only people that could possibly complain is Ford, and they aren't going to do that.

[26ftcobraBBF]

I was able to take a look before you removed the link. And I noticed there were page numbers to some of the other tsb that I'm interested in looking at. I am the new guy and am getting use to navigating the forum. Can you point me in the right direction to find the documentation on fuel system electrical check. That would help a bunch.
Thank you

[kramttocs]

Sorry about that. I likely made that whole bit unnecessarily confusing with my edit
If you look at Gary's post where he quoted me you can still click on the original link. You are right - I noticed a few references to other articles and tsb's that would be interesting to read through.
I would jot down the ones you are interested in and check out the TSB section under the Documentation menu at the top of the forum. If they aren't there (or aren't hyperlinked) post them here and Gary might be able to add them.

For most electrical stuff, I head to the EVTM (under Doc > electrical and available for various years). It contains invaluable schematics but also some troubleshooting steps.
If that doesn't address it, that is when the shop manuals come into play. Gary has some of these posted on relevant pages throughout the documentation section.

I would see if the evtm helps but if not, let us know. We can either talk through it or can find/add the doc needed.
Fortunately there isn't a shortage of 460 owners here 😀

[kramttocs]

Gary - do you happen to have 84-24-14?
I don't see it on the TSB index page.