New Brakes

[Matt Wood]

Hi all,

Looking for some advice for my brake upgrades, Lets assume i have no prior knowledge on what can be done and what cant (as i am very new to the whole braking system with disc / drum proportioning)

Basically i want to make the truck actually stop rather than slowing pre-emptively at junctions. The truck passes the MOT here in the UK which means it has got over 55% breaking efficiency (weight of the vehicle / breaking force). My current situation is that i have a sticky calliper that if you stand on the brakes hard will bind - i plan on replacing both so this isnt an issue really. If you really press them hard they do work 'ok' but im looking to make them more modern. I dont really want to convert the rears to discs as the cost of doing that in the uk would be about £1500+ after shipping + taxes. so that leaves me with very few options... other than braided lines is there anything else i can do to improve performance? or am i stuck with just accepting that its 35 years old  

Question 2 - I want to change the brake booster and the master cylinder, i would like to make both chrome but have zero idea on what i could make fit or where to start with what makes them not all fit, i know the bolts could be in different places and the throw on the rod could be different but where can i start in finding a replacement, Mustang parts are very readily available over here so maybe a chrome mustang booster and master will fit? any guidence or input on this would be greatly appreciated!

Thanks

Matt

[Rembrant]

Hi Matt,

I can't offer all that much help, but one I've done that I'm very happy with is install one of the later F150 aluminum master cylinders.




The main reason I did this was because I was sick of looking at the old rusty cast iron master cylinder. Others have had issues with the covers leaking, but that wasn't a particular problem of mine.

The braking performance is the same as the old Bullnose master cylinder. No change there.

The later master cylinder has a fluid level float, so I made use of this since I also removed my prop valve at the same time. I re-routed the wires to the float switch so the Brake warning light in my dash will still work if the fluid gets low for any reason.

It's a nice little upgrade imho. I ordered one for a 1991 fyi.

They do fit the Bullnose brake booster just fine, but the front and rear brake ports are reversed from the Bullnose master cylinder.

[Gary Lewis]

I second that recommendation.  I hated the rusty, leaky cast iron master cylinder, but love the plastic/aluminum one.  No leaks, I can see how much fluid I have, and I have a home-made cap that allows me to put air pressure on it to bleed the brakes easily.

Another thing I did is to put a hydroboost booster on.  Runs off the power steering pump and really helps get the brakes to work NOW.  Makes the brakes seem very modern.

[Machspeed]

Corey, as I was loading up pictures of your truck the other day I was admiring that master cylinder mod. I have the rusty looking master cyl look. Also have the paint peeling/fading/rusty looking power boaster look as well. Every time I open the hood, my eyes go strait to it. Is this mod done up somewhere on our forum? I like it!

[Rusty_S85]

Rembrant wrote

Hi Matt,

I can't offer all that much help, but one I've done that I'm very happy with is install one of the later F150 aluminum master cylinders.




The main reason I did this was because I was sick of looking at the old rusty cast iron master cylinder. Others have had issues with the covers leaking, but that wasn't a particular problem of mine.

The braking performance is the same as the old Bullnose master cylinder. No change there.

The later master cylinder has a fluid level float, so I made use of this since I also removed my prop valve at the same time. I re-routed the wires to the float switch so the Brake warning light in my dash will still work if the fluid gets low for any reason.

It's a nice little upgrade imho. I ordered one for a 1991 fyi.

They do fit the Bullnose brake booster just fine, but the front and rear brake ports are reversed from the Bullnose master cylinder.

Looks good.  I might end up going that route if I make the switch to late 80s F-Superduty Hydraboost brakes.  Have to wait and see how my vacuum brakes feel with the cam I picked out for my engine build

For mine I have the prop valve still but my sensor broke off in it when I tried to remove it to replace it.  So I have no functional brake light as of now would like to get it working how ever but think my only choice is to source a NOS valve just havent seen any come up on Ebay lately.

Customer at work how ever that we dropped the Coyote in, he keeps pestering us about brake upgrades for calipers and rotors cause the truck doesnt stop that good.  Tried telling him its a 80s ford truck not a race car and not to build it up the way he did since there is no aftermarket in brake systems for our trucks.  lol Guy really wanted to have us put slotted and drilled rotors and I told him that wont help his truck stop faster like he thinks.

[Rusty_S85]

Gary Lewis wrote

I second that recommendation.  I hated the rusty, leaky cast iron master cylinder, but love the plastic/aluminum one.  No leaks, I can see how much fluid I have, and I have a home-made cap that allows me to put air pressure on it to bleed the brakes easily.

Another thing I did is to put a hydroboost booster on.  Runs off the power steering pump and really helps get the brakes to work NOW.  Makes the brakes seem very modern.

You did like I was thinking didnt you?  Source a late 80`s F-Super Duty hydraboost?

I wont do the Hydratech, those aftermarket units are insanely priced when one can buy a late 80s F-Super Duty hydraboost reman for under $300 on rock auto and as far as I can tell should bolt right in and fit the brake pedal without any changes.

[Gary Lewis]

Jein.  Mine has a hydroboost and master cylinder out of an 1995 F450 and a 1995 E-350 Saginaw pump.  Good fit with the 1995 D60 front axle.  Combo stops on a dime and gives change.

[Rusty_S85]

Gary Lewis wrote

Jein.  Mine has a hydroboost and master cylinder out of an 1995 F450 and a 1995 E-350 Saginaw pump.  Good fit with the 1995 D60 front axle.  Combo stops on a dime and gives change.

Oh yeah thats right you went very late model using 90`s parts I remember now.

I dont know if I want to do that, I am more of a bolt on kind of person and with how long my truck has been down for a engine I dont want to get too involved with custom work anymore.

Wish I could get the F-Super Duty hydraboost locally so I could test fit it and verify it will fit and work vs ordering online but something like that has to be ordered anyways and every local place I checked only can get the cardone reman which Ive never had luck with at work on hydraboosts.  At least with rock auto I can pick up one reman by someone else.  Just wish there was more info on differences between the F-Super Duty and regular F150 trucks as far as pedal and firewall goes.  I looked last year on this but couldnt find much but looking at the photos it looks like the hydraboost mounts and the pedal rod look identical to the vacuum booster.

[kramttocs]

I am running the stock setup but just wanted to mentioned that besides chrome, don't forget you can powdercoat pretty much anything you can get down to all metal.
I powdercoated the master cylinder mirror black and then used Eastwood brake paint on the booster. Just an idea of you want to go with a custom color.

[Rusty_S85]

kramttocs wrote

I am running the stock setup but just wanted to mentioned that besides chrome, don't forget you can powdercoat pretty much anything you can get down to all metal.
I powdercoated the master cylinder mirror black and then used Eastwood brake paint on the booster. Just an idea of you want to go with a custom color.

Honestly I am going to use the Eastwood Brake gray on my truck.  I used it on my 56 and very happy with the results.

This is when I did a new master cylinder back in 2015.  This stuff has ground up stainless steel in the paint.


Same master cylinder December 2019.


Looks a little discolored and there is some rust staining but the cool aspect is a rag with some WD40 on it for example will buff the rust stains off and bring it back some.

When I do my truck if I throw hydraboost on I am going to do the new master cylinder the same way or if I just replace my old master cylinder without the conversion I will paint it just like I did this one.

[ArdWrknTrk]

Hydroboost works great and eliminates the massive vacuum can altogether.
I imagine this leaves you more space to change plugs 7&8 as well as unwrapping the fuel pump/trailer relays.

The later alloy MC plastic reservoir is pretty much a direct swap except front and rear are reversed, and you need that residual pressure check valve for drum brakes in the rear.
Be aware they come in different bore sizes with different flange bolt patterns as well.

[Rembrant]

Machspeed wrote

Every time I open the hood, my eyes go strait to it. Is this mod done up somewhere on our forum? I like it!

I was doing the exact same thing! Even the nice mint expensive trucks for sale on Ebay will have a beautiful engine bay and all you can see is that rusty master cylinder lol.

It's a pretty straight forward installation. There are really only two issues:

1. Is that the front and rear brake ports are reversed from the Bullnose master cylinder. I was running all new brake lines at the time, so it was a non-issue for me. However, I did see a guy on Facebook a month or two ago do the swap with a used master, and all he did was grab the two brake lines and bend them around each other to fit the new master.

2. The later master cylinder requires a residual pressure valve for the rear brakes, and it is NOT included with the purchase of a new master cylinder. They are readily available at the junkyard though, so I grabbed a couple of them...one to install, and another for a spare. I'm pointing at it in the picture below:



It bolts right up to the Bullnose brake booster no problem. I did have to adjust the booster pushrod a little bit, but I think that's a given anyway.

I did away with the prop valve on the frame...the later trucks didn't have them anyway. I took the wires that used to connect to it and connected them to the float switch on the later master, so my low-brake-fluid warning light in the dash still works. If you go to the junkyard to get a residual pressure valve (or the whole master itself) also grab the plug and wiring for the float switch.

A former member on here put me on to this and I'm glad he did as I was re-doing the whole braking system anyway. Otherwise, I think Scott's powder coating method noted above is also an great idea.

[Gary Lewis]

There is another way on the reversed lines.  As said, I used a '95 F450 master but used the master-to-proportioning valve lines from a '90 F250.  The '90 had the later master so had the lines reversed, and they still had the proportioning valve on the frame.  It all bolted up like it was meant to be there and I didn't have to have the residual pressure valve.

[Machspeed]

Thanks for posting that up, Corey! I like the master cylinder change on your truck and I may eventually go that route. I have the Eastwood stuff for which I was going to use on my Mustang master cylinder so I may just go that route for now. When I pull my booster, I'll spray it with some black SPI epoxy which is unaffected by brake fluid. I paint everything with that epoxy.  

[ArdWrknTrk]

Gary, can you post what Big Blue looks like from the same perspective? (hood latch, I presume)

That might show how compact Hydroboost is compared to a vacuum booster.

[Gary Lewis]

Jim - What booster?  

I cropped it to match Cory's shot, using the windshield wiper motors and the DS-II modules as the references.  Note where the clutch master cylinder is and how close the vacuum booster comes to it in his pic.

[Matt Wood]

Thanks everyone for all the brilliant methods!

Gary i think i want to go down your route as it just seems like the best way to bring the brakes out of the past  Do you have a write up on what you did exactly? or any modifications you needed to do? I still have the standard PS pump as i seem to have been lucky and its quiet as a mouse lol. Am i still able to use the hydroboost system? How exactly does the hydro system work?

[Gary Lewis]

Matt - The best writeup is on the page at Documentation/Driveline/Brakes and go to the Master Cyl's & Boosters tab and then the Hydroboost Upgrade tab.  The instructions there are from Hydratech, and they sell kits for upgrading trucks.

And yes, you can use your C-II pump.  The pump supplies the pressure to the hydroboost system, which has two outlets - one is pressure to the power steering box and the other is the return.  The return from the power steering box goes to the cooler on the frame and then the two returns, the power steering and the hydroboost, merge and go back into the pump.

Need a diagram?

[ArdWrknTrk]

But note that you need to move the pivot pin on the brake pedal, and need the correct bore to have the right ratio for the smaller brakes found on 150's.

If you swap a 450 master into a 150 the ratio is going to be way off.
This is why I've used the setup from an Astrovan in the 150's.

[Matt Wood]

I think i got the idea, here is what i got from your description... I appologise in advance for how poor this drawing is lol, its hard to draw with a mouse haha



Does this seem about right? By cooler do you mean the ally hard line that curls round the cross member?