New Brakes

[ArdWrknTrk]

Matt the Hydroboost system uses pressure from the power steering pump to augment* your pedal effort instead of engine vacuum acting on a diaphragm the size of a dinner plate.

Fluid pressure also compresses a piston in a reservoir (small cylinder beside the master cylinder) that will give you some braking if the engine cuts out.
This is because you always have atmospheric pressure, but hydraulics work on the principle that liquids are uncompressible.

Fluid comes from the high pressure side and is metered to act against the brake master cylinder piston.
When fluid is usually flowing straight back through the return, stepping on the pedal creates restriction which raises the pressure and pushes harder on the brakes.

[Gary Lewis]

Jim is right, you either need to source a hydroboost pedal from another Ford truck or move the pin where the hydroboost attaches.  That is because of the leverage difference.  And given your lack of availability moving the pin might be best.

And he's right that you don't want an F450 master.  But the Astrovan approach works.  But Hydrotech might have one as well.

On your drawing I've added the cooler, the one on the frame crossmember, but otherwise it is correct:

[ArdWrknTrk]

Gary, you haven't replaced the O-ring in the hose connection of your clutch master yet?  

[Machspeed]

Gary Lewis wrote

Matt - The best writeup is on the page at Documentation/Driveline/Brakes and go to the Master Cyl's & Boosters tab and then the Hydroboost Upgrade tab.  The instructions there are from Hydratech, and they sell kits for upgrading trucks.

And yes, you can use your C-II pump.  The pump supplies the pressure to the hydroboost system, which has two outlets - one is pressure to the power steering box and the other is the return.  The return from the power steering box goes to the cooler on the frame and then the two returns, the power steering and the hydroboost, merge and go back into the pump.

Need a diagram?

http://www.hydratechbraking.com/Ford_80-96_F_Series.html

Starting price $690. I'm thinking for my needs, my factory set up is just fine.

[Rusty_S85]

Matt Wood wrote

I think i got the idea, here is what i got from your description... I appologise in advance for how poor this drawing is lol, its hard to draw with a mouse haha



Does this seem about right? By cooler do you mean the ally hard line that curls round the cross member?

That is one way of doing it.  If you use a tee on the return side make sure the power steering gear box return to pump is on the straight leg and the tee leg the hydraboost.  This way the constantly flowing fluid will help direct the hydraboost return back to the pump.  If hooked up the other way the powersteering gear box return can flow left and right on the tee and create back pressure on the return side of the hydraboost which will cause the hydraboost to try and engage at idle without touching the pedal.

The option I am looking at if I do it is to get the plastic can off a late 80`s diesel with the hydraboost return built in, the pumps look identical as well as the cans so I feel I should be able to swap the later model hydraboost can with my '82 pump and hook the hydraboost return directly to the can itself.  This way I should in theory be able to buy hydraboost lines and they should fit without having to make custom lines.

[Rusty_S85]

Machspeed wrote

Gary Lewis wrote

Matt - The best writeup is on the page at Documentation/Driveline/Brakes and go to the Master Cyl's & Boosters tab and then the Hydroboost Upgrade tab.  The instructions there are from Hydratech, and they sell kits for upgrading trucks.

And yes, you can use your C-II pump.  The pump supplies the pressure to the hydroboost system, which has two outlets - one is pressure to the power steering box and the other is the return.  The return from the power steering box goes to the cooler on the frame and then the two returns, the power steering and the hydroboost, merge and go back into the pump.

Need a diagram?

http://www.hydratechbraking.com/Ford_80-96_F_Series.html

Starting price $690. I'm thinking for my needs, my factory set up is just fine.

$690 for Hydratech and you still have to custom fit the push rod or 88 - 97 F-Superduty Hydraboost for $287.46 with $66.67 Core charge.

https://www.rockauto.com/en/moreinfo.php?pk=1781500&cc=1446057&jsn=943

This is the route im looking at then source the reservior can for a 88 - 97 with hydraboost for $17.36

https://www.oempartsource.com/oem-parts/ford-power-steering-reservoir-e5dz3a697a?origin=pla&gclid=CjwKCAiAoOz-BRBdEiwAyuvA67yP2Oal0PvGwgnakpr6LaKmayC9hiqwEvYHa0BW6HSPu6oag6k34hoC3L0QAvD_BwE

Then in theory which I plan to try if I go hydraboost is seeing how 88 - 97 Hydraboost hydraulic lines fit.  Should fit just fine I feel.

[ArdWrknTrk]

I really wanted the Hydroboost from that F-450 welding truck, but Gary called dibs as I was tearing it down.
I think it would serve me well, and I would get used to 21st century braking.

The junkyard can offer a bunch of compatible vehicles.

[Rusty_S85]

Gary Lewis wrote

Jim is right, you either need to source a hydroboost pedal from another Ford truck or move the pin where the hydroboost attaches.  That is because of the leverage difference.  And given your lack of availability moving the pin might be best.

And he's right that you don't want an F450 master.  But the Astrovan approach works.  But Hydrotech might have one as well.

On your drawing I've added the cooler, the one on the frame crossmember, but otherwise it is correct:

Ideally you would want to relocate the pin or have the hydraboost pedal.  But it is not technically needed though.  Ive installed many hydratechs using the OE power brake location.  But if you talk to Hydratech they recommend you bringing the push rod pin to where the push rod is level.  If you dont do this it just makes the brakes a bit touchy but you can get use to it.

Me I would just hunt ebay and source a hydrabrake pedal from a 88 - 96 truck should drop right in on the pivot pin

[Rusty_S85]

ArdWrknTrk wrote

I really wanted the Hydroboost from that F-450 welding truck, but Gary called dibs as I was tearing it down.
I think it would serve me well, and I would get used to 21st century braking.

The junkyard can offer a bunch of compatible vehicles.

You can buy reman Hydraboosts for way cheaper than the Hydratech setup.  Its the route I would go cause the Hydratech setup is nothing but a GM hydraboost mounted on a custom mounting plate with a universal push rod you have to adjust.

[Matt Wood]

thanks all, i definitely dont want to be paying $700 just for the cylinder lol, doing that i may as well put discs all round as it will come to the same price! i will look into getting a hydraboost off a bigger newer f series truck and going down that route, are the pedal assy's interchangeable (bolt right up?)

I will still likely need to fly over to get all these bits as rock auto and all other places charge massive amounts for the shipping. right now the shipping for a standard M/C and Booster is about $130 plus 25% tax on both the cost of the parts and the cost of the shipping lol. Silly money!

[ArdWrknTrk]

Matt, you don't want Hydroboost from a 450 truck.
The ratios are all wrong for a 150/Bronco with their smaller calipers.

Ford has a number of vehicles (Mustangs, Lincoln's) that have similar diameter caliper pistons to your Bronco and these Hydroboost units are better suited to your truck.

With the bigger bore of a SuperDuty master, the caliper pistons will move a lot, but sensitivity and power are compromised.

[Gary Lewis]

The pedal itself will swap from a '95 truck to a Bullnose truck.  But the housing the pedal goes into won't swap.  So you pull the shaft out of both housings and just swap the hydroboost pedal in.

Or, if you have access to the equipment, remove the pin from a standard pedal, drill a new hole higher up, and tack weld it in.  I'm pretty sure the dimensions are available on here for where the pin goes.

Doing it that way would be my recommendation for you in the UK for two reasons.  First, you don't have to find the right pedal.  But second, the right pedal doesn't work well with the vacuum dump valve for the speed control.  Start reading in Big Blue's thread here for a discussion of that.  So if you just move the pin you won't have that problem.

[Gsmblue]

On both of my trucks  I replaced the booster, put in braided lines, new pads all around, rebuilt the rear drums with new springs and slaves.  Then flushed the old brake fluid out and put new stuff in.

That was enough of an improvement for me. Both vehicles stop really well and have good pedal feel. I have locked them both up under controlled testing!

It is not that expensive to do and it is very straightforward.

[Matt Wood]

I think that is my short term plan, we still have a good 4-5 months of 'winter' here so dont want to do anything too major. Im planning on making my own braided lines and hoping that will make a good enough difference in the short term, who knows it might end up good enough and ill stick with it for good!

Gary, i completely forogot about the vac speed ocntrol switch! thanks for the heads up, i will do some more research and maybe revive this thread a few months down the line when / if i am able to order all the parts and such, at the momnet lots of companies are 'halting' shipping from europe as we finalise the brexit deals and all parts that come over from the states stop off in cologne therefore would never arrive  

Jim, thanks for that, my original thoughts were to look at the mustang setups as i believed they'd be a lot closer to my set up than a larger F truck, do you know what years id be looking at for a hydroboost from a mustang or lincoln?

[Gary Lewis]

Matt - Having seen the pics of the lorries backed up in Kent due to France having stopped all Chunnel traffic from England, and with Brexit negotiations not going well, you may be a long time getting anything from this side of the pond.  So I think it wise to take your time.  Do the research.  And then pull the trigger on whatever the plan is at that time.

[Gsmblue]

Matt,

Where in there UK are you? I am from London - Enfield specifically. Been in the US since 2006.

[Matt Wood]

Gary, I always choose the best time to do anything  i had the truck shipped over when trump closed all exports and stopped paying the TSA or whatever he did  Now i want to do an entire brake and exhaust setup when our govenmnet have done the same haha

[Gary Lewis]

In case he doesn't see this quickly, he says Stanstead.  And if you are from Enfield you might know where we lived - Moor Park.  Few do.

[Matt Wood]

I am about 40 minutes from enfield, im off at J8 on the M11, Bishops stortford!

[Gsmblue]

Some good pubs up your way :)