My 1984 F150 2wd Flareside Project "Blue Mule"

[Rembrant]

Steve83 wrote

Where are you shopping?  I've only bought 1 or 2 MCs for these trucks from parts stores (they rarely go bad, so I normally buy at the JY), but I specifically remember the RPV was attached.  Maybe mine were reman, but I'd be amazed if you're actually finding them "new" w/o RPV.

Usually between Rock Auto online, and at the local CarQuest (Which is owned by Advance Auto Parts). The one I have on the bench now I bought from CarQuest, and it is new, but does not have the RPV. I did not see the RPV on any of the other aftermarket brands online either, new or reman.

However, I just went back and scanned them all again, and the only one it seems that actually comes with the RPV is the Motorcraft BRMC63 (#F4TZ2140E). I hadn't looked at this one previously because it was quite a bit more expensive than the others.



All of the other typical aftermarket brands, Raybestos, AC Delco, Cardone, Centric, etc, etc, new or reman, do not include the RPV.

Anyway, it's no big deal. I'll get this sorted out just fine now that I know what's going on. If I can find one at the Junkyard that isn't all corroded I'll grab it. Otherwise, I'll just order the Motorcraft MC and return the one I have. Thanks Steve.

[FuzzFace2]

Cory, did your master have the plastic tank on it?
When I went looking to see what all was needed to do this swap the pictures did not show a tank.
Between the line swapping the tank not on the master I decided to stay stock for now.
Dave ----

[Steve83]

Rembrant wrote

...Motorcraft BRMC63 (#F4TZ2140E). I hadn't looked at this one previously because it was quite a bit more expensive than the others.

I certainly understand about price-shopping, but on things like brakes, I always try to consider that maybe it's WORTH more.   Do you regularly check Amazon or Tasca for auto parts?
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B001CA76TU
https://www.tascaparts.com/oem-parts/ford-ford-bronco-master-cylinder-f4tz2140e
It's worth noting that this MC is for all '87-93 F150/Bronco, but not '94-96 w/cruise (front boss not drilled for the SCCDS).  I haven't found a source for the Ford/MotorCraft '94-up cruise MC (F4TZ2140FA), but I think BRMC38 would work if you swapped the smaller reservoir on.

[Gary Lewis]

Ok, I've looked this thread through and can't find it - what is an SCCDS?

[Rembrant]

Gary Lewis wrote

Ok, I've looked this thread through and can't find it - what is an SCCDS?

Gary,

I take it to mean some kind of Cruise Control Disable Switch, but that's just me guessing. If you do a Google search on "Ford SCCDS" all it brings up are forum threads, with a user named Steve83 using the term...lol.

I guess we'll have to wait for the official explanation from him.

[Rembrant]

Steve83 wrote

I certainly understand about price-shopping, but on things like brakes, I always try to consider that maybe it's WORTH more.  

Now wait a damn minute...LOL. You're killin' me here Steve. First of all, you recommend and suggest getting critical brake components from the junkyard. A junkyard where vehicles, often times with hundreds of thousands of miles on them are taken because they're not longer fit for the road. But then, when shopping for new brake parts, you put more consideration into what the actual "worth" is?...LOL.

Now, you don't even have to answer me, because I already know what your answer is. You probably prefer a Ford OEM part with several hundred thousand miles on it over a new aftermarket part. I get it.

As a guy who advocates getting brake components from a junkyard, you don't need to suggest that I was cheaping out on the new parts because I didn't consider the actual "worth"...LOL. I typically go for the middle of the road stuff...not the cheapest, but not the most expensive either. The extra $30 bucks for the Motorcraft master cylinder is hardly the point. Based on your suggestion that I install a later model master cylinder with the "integrated RPV", I mistakenly assumed that all new master cylinders included this RPV, and therefore assumed they were all similar, regardless of the price differences.

When looking at new master cylinders, there are no references that they include or do not include the RPV. I only noticed that the more expensive Motorcraft MC included the RPV because I looked at all of the pictures.

[Rembrant]

Ok, another trip to the junkyard, and I grabbed two RPV's. One to install, and another for a spare. They were around 2 bucks each. I'm back in business.

[Rembrant]

FuzzFace2 wrote

Cory, did your master have the plastic tank on it?
When I went looking to see what all was needed to do this swap the pictures did not show a tank.
Between the line swapping the tank not on the master I decided to stay stock for now.
Dave ----

Dave,

From what I can tell, if we're talking about the later style aluminum master cylinders, the reman units seem to come with NO plastic tank. You'd have to re-use the old one. If you buy a new unit like I did, they come with the plastic tank.

Staying stock is perfectly fine. For what I'm doing with my truck, I don't expect the later master cylinder to perform any better. The only reason I opted to do it was because it won't rust, and it saves me a few bucks by not having to buy a new external proportioning valve.

If your proportioning valve was fine, and your lines are fine, I'd see no real reason to switch to the later master cylinder, other than it is plastic and aluminum instead of cast iron and steel, so it won't rust.

(Preventing rust is always a consideration here...)

[Gary Lewis]

In my opinion there are several advantages to the aluminum/plastic master cylinders.  One is the ability to see how much brake fluid you have w/o taking the cap off.  

Another is a cap that seals well - unlike many of the cast iron units I've had.  Yes, you can file them and get them to seal, but why when there's "a better way".

And, speaking of the cap, you can actually use one of the power bleeders on the aluminum/plastic units as you can seal to the threads in the neck.  Try that on the cast one.

Plus, there's the much lighter weight.  Every little bit helps.  (Yep, I'm the guy w/a 460, dual batteries, winch, and soon-to-be big rear bumper.  )

Anyway, good score at the "shopping mall", Cory.  

Last, who is going to write the how-to?  I'd love to have an in-depth one, including an explanation of the acronyms.  I learned a lot by reading along, but didn't follow it closely as I was playing with powder and parts, as well as TSB'ing.  So I still have a lot to learn.

[Gary Lewis]

Since Ford calls cruise control "speed control", perhaps it is Speed Control C Disable Switch, with "C" TBD?  

I would have said "Clutch", but it is on the brake system.  Perhaps "Cruise"?  That makes sense!

[grumpin]

Gary Lewis wrote

Last, who is going to write the how-to?  I'd love to have an in-depth one, including an explanation of the acronyms.  I learned a lot by reading along, but didn't follow it closely as I was playing with powder and parts, as well as TSB'ing.  So I still have a lot to learn.

I agree!

[Gary Lewis]

grumpin wrote

Gary Lewis wrote

So I still have a lot to learn.

I agree!

I wouldn't have expected you to agree so vociferously.  

[Rembrant]

Gary Lewis wrote

Since Ford calls cruise control "speed control", perhaps it is Speed Control C Disable Switch, with "C" TBD?  

I would have said "Clutch", but it is on the brake system.  Perhaps "Cruise"?  That makes sense!

I just went back and looked at the image Steve posted, and I'd say that SCCDS is Servo Cruise Control Disable Switch. We'll have to wait for Steve to confirm.

[Rembrant]

Gary Lewis wrote

Since Ford calls cruise control "speed control", perhaps it is Speed Control C Disable Switch, with "C" TBD?  

Also...Just to clear something up, I think we may have gone off the rails a bit here talking about the SCCDS. The reason it came up was that earlier in this thread I asked about a device that was part of the rear braking system mounted on the frame of a 1992-1996 F150 at the Junkyard, and Steve said it was a frame mounted SCCDS (only on the 1993 model).

I think Steve and I were talking about two different things here, because after a little more digging around the junkyard, I found this same device on other year f150's. What I was looking at and asking about earlier appears to be what Ford called "Valve - Brake Skid Control", part numbers E7TZ-2B373-A, up to F5TZ-2B373-A.

Now, we'll have to wait for Steve to confirm, I'm guessing this is what is known as the RABS module? Rear Antilock Braking System? Steve?

It's mounted on the inside of the frame, almost directly below the master cylinder. Looking back at Steve's image posted earlier, it looks like the SCCDS was mounted in almost the same location, but on top of the frame rail.

From the little bit of reading I did, it seems this RABS module is a universally disliked device...lol, and it was common to bypass them when/if they failed.

[grumpin]

Ha! I meant about the write up!

Gary Lewis wrote

I wouldn't have expected you to agree so vociferously.  

[Gary Lewis]

[Steve83]

Gary Lewis wrote

what is an SCCDS?

You guys never look at the pics I post, do you?  Turns I've been misspelling that abbreviation for years.   I'm using it to mean "Secondary Cruise Control Deactivation Switch" (which I'd have sworn I got from Ford documentation).  "Secondary" because the primary kill is the brake/clutch input; if those don't work and you get scared that your vehicle isn't slowing down & stomp the brake harder, that switch cuts power to the clutch inside the servo, disconnecting it mechanically from the throttle as a secondary failsafe kill.  But after looking back at the FSA, it's supposed to be "Speed Control Deactivation Switch" (SCDS).

Rembrant wrote

You're killin' me here Steve.

Yeah, I know I can be confusing sometimes.   I was only talking about the generally-high-quality Ford/MC parts vs. the unknown-quality of all other aftermarket replacements; when their price difference is relatively small.

But my first preference is always OE (assembly-line original equipment) parts, no matter how many miles they have (which, by itself, I don't view as a worthwhile gauge of a part's condition).  And they're usually cheaper because almost everyone else considers high-mileage parts to be worth LESS than new imported junk (and I include Ford/MC imported parts in there).

I wasn't calling you cheap - I was commiserating because I've been unemployed for years, so I have to shop frugally for my hobby, too.

Rembrant wrote

I think Steve and I were talking about two different things...

That's possible - I couldn't actually see ANYTHING in the shadows of your pic - I just assumed it was the SCDS based on location, and because you didn't correct me after I posted that diagram & pictures of it.  But if this is what you saw:



...then you're correct now , and the SCDS discussion was irrelevant.

[Rembrant]

Steve83 wrote

You guys never look at the pics I post, do you?

But after looking back at the FSA, it's supposed to be "Speed Control Deactivation Switch" (SCDS).

LOL...I admit, that I didn't look at all of them, and if I had, I wouldn't have been as confused as I was. I'll hang my head in shame for that.

PS: I did see the term "SCCDS" in your attachments....maybe it was a typo from Ford?



All confusion aside Steve, you've been a great help.

[Gary Lewis]

I actually thought I'd looked all of them as well.  In fact, I got lost exploring.  But, I missed that.

Anyway, thanks for the explanation.  (And here I was thinking one of the "S's" was for "Steve".)

[Steve83]

Rembrant wrote

maybe it was a typo from Ford?

Maybe - I still think I got it from a Ford document, but it's been too long ago for me to remember which one, where, or when.

But the one you spotted is something I put in that diagram (like the watermarks behind it).  I recognize the font as Arial Bold, which I often use to overwrite blurry, missing, or incorrect text.  I frequently start with several Ford diagrams, and combine/correct/customize them.  When I do that, I usually put my watermark behind them; if it's a raw diagram I got from somewhere without changing it (much), I usually don't.


So back to the topic of the thread...
Which one did you NOT get a picture of?   Was it the little red 2-wire SCDS, or the big cast 4-wire RABS valve?