My 1984 F150 2wd Flareside Project "Blue Mule"

[Gary Lewis]

Beautiful!!!  Really well done.    And, at that price it is truly amazing.

[grumpin]

I agree, very nice!

[Rembrant]

I'm pretty sure my 34 year old master cylinder (and probably 34 year old brake fluid) was well beyond it's best before date! That is some filthy grunge right there.





Before I go to crazy ordering all new brake system parts, has anybody installed the pre-made brake line kits from Bronco Graveyard?

Has anybody installed their aftermarket proportioning valve kit (and used the suggested bleeder tool?)

I'm replacing the entire braking system, so I'm just making a list of where to order everything from.

[FuzzFace2]

Cant help on the brake lines as I took the best of what I had between the 2 trucks to use.
I am thinking JBGY gets the lines from 1 of 2 places, Inline Tube or Classic Tube. I did use one of them on my AMC Javelin but I don't remember who's, many years ago.
I did replace the rubber hoses, wheel cly., and calipers, lines were drained.

I don't think my master, master & booster from rolled over parts truck, was that bad but it did have some mudd in the bottom.
I cleaned it out the best I could before bleeding the system. I first used a vacuum bleeder that uses shop air and pulled some dirty fluid first.

I still had a low pedal and only pedal bleed did the trick.
That is when I found the master & booster were not 100% good so I will need to replace them before truck is on the road. You would think if the truck was being used they would have been good?
Dave ----

[Steve83]

The fluid is that bad because it never got changed.  Each time the brakes are serviced (or every ~3~5 years), the reservoir should be emptied (by squeeze bulb) and the fluid replaced with new.  That will eventually work its way down to the wheel cylinders, keeping their fluid relatively fresh, without the risks of draining/flushing.

Rembrant wrote

Before I go to crazy ordering all new brake system parts...

The '87-up (Aluminum) master cylinder & integral residual-pressure valve is a direct replacement for that cast Iron MC & remote proportioning valve.  The '87-up booster is a direct replacement for that booster, and it's an inch or so thinner.  So you could upgrade straight to the newer parts, and avoid some of the problems & limitations of the older system.  If you get a '94-96 cruise MC (with the black SCCDS in the port at the front), you can add the electronic cruise servo later.

[Rembrant]

Steve83 wrote

The fluid is that bad because it never got changed.  Each time the brakes are serviced (or every ~3~5 years), the reservoir should be emptied (by squeeze bulb) and the fluid replaced with new.  That will eventually work its way down to the wheel cylinders, keeping their fluid relatively fresh, without the risks of draining/flushing.

The '87-up (Aluminum) master cylinder & integral residual-pressure valve is a direct replacement for that cast Iron MC & remote proportioning valve.  The '87-up booster is a direct replacement for that booster, and it's an inch or so thinner.  So you could upgrade straight to the newer parts, and avoid some of the problems & limitations of the older system.  If you get a '94-96 cruise MC (with the black SCCDS in the port at the front), you can add the electronic cruise servo later.

Well, it is a 35 year old truck with less than 40k original miles on it, so it really never did see much in the way of service, because it was rarely used.

Interesting on the later master cylinder...hmmm.
I'm replacing the booster as well. So I would just order a booster for an '84, and a master for an '87, and they'll bolt together just fine with no further adjustments required?

And I wouldn't need to buy the external proportioning valve?

Is there a tee somewhere for the front brakes? There is only one port on the master for both front calipers, right?

I am also wanting to order a complete brake line kit. I wonder if I installed a 1987 master, could I also get away with ordering a 1987 full brake line kit? The calipers and drums would be the same between my 84 and an 87?...or at least the flex lines, etc would be the same...

I must go do some reading...

I was wanting to use original-ish stuff, but if this saved some money, then I'd be interested...

[Gary Lewis]

I agree with Steve - go with the later stuff.  And, there should be two ports on the master, although if I remember correctly the lines are reversed?  Anyway, that's the way I'm going to go.

But, on the lines, do not go to Inline Tube.  I did, and will not do so again.  The lines do not fit properly and every line had to be re-bent.  And, the first line they sent for the left rear had the wrong fitting on it so it wouldn't even screw in.  They made a new one and sent it out, and after re-bending it I got it to fit.

I called them and asked why the lines don't fit.  The guy said "We are basically a GM shop and don't do many Fords.  And there are so many different variations on the Ford's we can't get them right."  Variations?  There's a 9" and an 8.8" in the F100's or F150's.  That's variations?

Anyway, I can't recommend them.

[Steve83]

Rembrant wrote

So I would just order a booster for an '84, and a master for an '87...?

You COULD do that, and it would work fine.  But the '87-96 booster is thinner & interchangeable.  There is no appreciable improvement in booster performance, though.  It's just easier to find, more-modern, and smaller/lighter.

Rembrant wrote

...they'll bolt together just fine with no further adjustments required?

Yes; any '80-96 F150 /Bronco MC will work with any '80-96 F150 /Bronco booster.

Rembrant wrote

And I wouldn't need to buy the external proportioning valve?

Not with the later RPV, but you WOULD have to change the front 3 brake lines.

Rembrant wrote

Is there a tee somewhere for the front brakes?

At the LHF flex hose, for most '87-96 F150s.  But for some years & applications, there's a T-block on the frame.

Rembrant wrote

...a 1987 full brake line kit?

Not "full" - you only need to change the front 3 sections (LHF, RHF, & forward section of the rear line) from the proportioning-valve configuration to the RPV (Aluminum MC) configuration.  '87 would work, but so would any other year up to '96.  Just pick ONE.  I'd either shop around, and see what year is most-common, most-available, and most-affordable; or I'd browse the JYs for whatever configuration was used on '96 F150s (probably '94-96), and get a good used set (from any number of donor trucks, as long as the lines matched).

Do not get any hard lines from a '93-96 Bronco.  But you can get MC, booster, flexible hoses, calipers (IF they fit your steering knuckles), drums, & e-brake cables from any '80-96 1/2-ton Ford truck.

Rembrant wrote

The calipers and drums would be the same between my 84 and an 87?

Probably not, but I'm not sure what year they changed from the bolted spring key...



...to the rubber-filled stainless key:



I'm also NOT sure if the rubber-keyed caliper will fit the bolted-key steering knuckle, so you need to check that before buying "wrong" calipers.

Rembrant wrote

...or at least the flex lines, etc would be the same.

Not necessarily, depending on year & options.  Just pick one year, (or style) and make sure the 3 front lines you get match each other (fit together), and you get the LHF hose that matches those lines.  It's easiest if you find a good JY donor, and get the front lines off 1 truck.  The rear-rear line can be an '80-86 of your truck's wheelbase; you don't want to add RABS or that valve on the frame, so just use the older rear-rear line.

Rembrant wrote

I was wanting to use original-ish stuff...

You get no points for that - it just makes parts harder to find, less-reliable, and less-engineered.  There are MANY reasons Ford improved these parts over the years, so keeping the old tech won't give you a good daily-driver or work truck.  It only gives you a museum piece (something to be parked & showed, but no one gawks at an '80s F150).

Rembrant wrote

...if this saved some money...

It won't necessarily save money RIGHT NOW, but it will pay off in the long run; in lower maintenance & more reliability.

[Gary Lewis]

Steve - That's really good to know.  So changing the three lines then lets the later master bolt right in w/o any magic of reversing the lines and using an adapter.  Cool!

But I got lost about the left front hose.  Does it need to be changed?

[Ferdinand]

For what its worth, I replaced most all of my brake lines and took my time fashioned mild wire templates then using a few different benders they came out great. I also used the stone guard sleeves. (They look like a spring coiled around your lines)

Anyway, at least this way you get them exactly the way you want them with the right fittings and you can custom route them if you feel you see a better path.

I bought a pre-bent line set for my transmission from LMC and it went about as well as Gary's experience.



So, I ended up bending extensions myself anyway. I put the splices down under the fan shroud so I could get to them should they ever start to leak. I also wanted the lines as close to the radiator as I could get so I used 90 degree brass fittings coming out of the threaded inserts in the cooling bank.

[Rembrant]

Steve83 wrote

Not "full" - you only need to change the front 3 sections (LHF, RHF, & forward section of the rear line) from the proportioning-valve configuration to the RPV (Aluminum MC) configuration.  '87 would work, but so would any other year up to '96.  Just pick ONE.  I'd either shop around, and see what year is most-common, most-available, and most-affordable; or I'd browse the JYs for whatever configuration was used on '96 F150s (probably '94-96), and get a good used set (from any number of donor trucks, as long as the lines matched).

I need a "full" kit because I'm replacing all of my brakes. My truck current has NO brake lines on it. I'm not just doing a master cylinder change here...I'm doing all of it.

Steve, you must be in the south? Getting brake lines from a junkyard?...that's something that's just not possible here.

Technically speaking, making all new lines is not a problem for me at all, and I'll probably end up doing that. My problem currently is a bad rotator cuff, so I have limited mobility of my right arm, and I'm trying to find ways to get this project moving along without having to spend too much time under the truck bending and fitting lines.

In any case, the '87-up master/booster sounds like a good idea. Thanks for the suggestion on this. I just need to figure out how/where to tee that front line.

[Steve83]

Rembrant wrote

I need a "full" kit...

What I'm saying is I don't think you'll be able to buy a pre-made "kit" with all the lines you need because it'll be custom - not factory.  All the trucks with the Aluminum MC/RPV had ABS, and you don't want to add that.  So the front 3 lines will be the later configuration; the rear-rear line will be early.

Gary Lewis wrote

But I got lost about the left front hose.  Does it need to be changed?

Rembrant wrote

I just need to figure out how/where to tee that front line.

Just get the LHF hose that matches the lines you get.
LHF https://www.amazon.com/dp/B000CQTLNE (with T)
RHF https://www.amazon.com/dp/B000CLMAEQ (all '80-96)
Rear https://www.amazon.com/dp/B001O0VVFI (all '80-96)

[FuzzFace2]

Steve, Why the change of the front hard lines & hose if going with the 87 up alum. master & booster?
Is it because you are also using the PRV from that same system that also used the ABS?

If one wanted to just switch the two 80-86 MC lines could they?
Does the alum. MC have metric ports on it or has different size fittings than the old steel MC and why the change?

I also have to replace the MC & booster on my 81 and it would be nice if I could just bolt up the alum MC with booster and switch the lines and not have to re-bleed the system again because of the line change out.
Dave ----

[Steve83]

FuzzFace2 wrote

Why the change of the front hard lines & hose if going with the 87 up alum. master & booster?

Mainly because he said he wanted all new.  But also because, with the later RPV system, there's no need to keep the proportioning valve.  So all those hard lines are different.  And on most, the front output line goes to the LHF hose, which Ts to the RHF line; so if he uses that configuration of hard lines, he MUST also use that LHF hose.

FuzzFace2 wrote

If one wanted to just switch the two 80-86 MC lines could they?

No, because the later MC hard lines don't go to a Pro.Vlv., so there's nothing to switch them to;  all the front hard lines have to match each other.

And if you're about to ask me if one can just switch the MCs; one has.



But one doesn't recommend it.

[Rembrant]

Ok, I think I'm pretty much off to the races. It wasn't clear to me how the plumbing was routed up front with the integrated tee in the LH flex line, but I found a video on Youtube where I could see it, and that cleared up that confusion for me.

If I'm using the later aluminum master cyl and making my own lines, the only other item I really need to go with it is that LH front flex line with the tee, right?

I was looking at the different boosters, and in through 87-89 (I think) there are options for 10 3/4" OD boosters, and 11 1/2" OD boosters. Starting around 1990 or 1991, the boosters aren't identified by their size. Is it safe to assume that they are 10 3/4, or would they lower profile boosters be 11 1/2"? The reason I ask is, my truck appears to have a 10 3/4" booster, and the clutch master is hard up against it, so an 11 1/2" booster won't fit. To remove all doubt, I guess I'd just order a 1984 replacement, since they function the same.

About the switch in my external proportioning valve. According to my 84 EVTM, the switch is NO, and closes when there is a brake pressure failure in the front or rear. I guess I'd just leave this disconnected and tape over the end of the plug so the two ends don't touch something or get full of water/moisture.

Are the ports in the aluminum master oriented the same as the old cast iron one? Front port for rear brakes, and rear port for front brakes?

[FuzzFace2]

Steve83 wrote

And if you're about to ask me if one can just switch the MCs; one has.



But one doesn't recommend it.

Well that answers that question
Guess I will stick to the "car show" setup
Thanks for the information
Dave ----

[FuzzFace2]

Rembrant wrote

I was looking at the different boosters, and in through 87-89 (I think) there are options for 10 3/4" OD boosters, and 11 1/2" OD boosters. Starting around 1990 or 1991, the boosters aren't identified by their size. Is it safe to assume that they are 10 3/4, or would they lower profile boosters be 11 1/2"? The reason I ask is, my truck appears to have a 10 3/4" booster, and the clutch master is hard up against it, so an 11 1/2" booster won't fit. To remove all doubt, I guess I'd just order a 1984 replacement, since they function the same.

Are the ports in the aluminum master oriented the same as the old cast iron one? Front port for rear brakes, and rear port for front brakes?

I also saw that on Rock Auto site on the booster sizes.
Between the booster the master and lines I will be using the factory stuff again in my truck.
Good luck on this part of your project.
Dave ----

[Steve83]

Rembrant wrote

If I'm using the later aluminum master cyl and making my own lines, the only other item I really need to go with it is that LH front flex line with the tee, right?

Yes.

Rembrant wrote

...the clutch master is hard up against it, so an 11 1/2" booster won't fit.

No problem on mine.  This is the '82 body tub/firewall with '84-91 clutch MC & '87-96 brake booster/MC.

Rembrant wrote

...the switch is NO, and closes when there is a brake pressure failure in the front or rear. I guess I'd just leave this disconnected...

Or connect it to the fluid level switch.

Rembrant wrote

Are the ports in the aluminum master oriented the same as the old cast iron one? Front port for rear brakes, and rear port for front brakes?

No, the RPV is for the rears. This is for a '93-96 Bronco, but the MC is the same as '87-92 Bronco & '87-96 F150:



You can see the front line passing straight through the hanger loop.  IGNORE the rest of the diagram & its caption - you'll never encounter that system, and it'll only confuse you.

[Gary Lewis]

I really like the idea of using the low brake fluid switch.  

[Rembrant]

Ok, another braking question since I'm trying to get everything ready to order.

When I'm looking at the parts selection for 1984, it shows two different options for rear brake wheel cylinders. 15/16" bore and 1" bore. My originals are 15/16". Was this a cut-off issue, where all of the later wheel cylinders were 1" bore?

It likely doesn't matter much in the grand scheme of things....