Help On 3G Page

[kramttocs]

I would want to emphasize the can in regards to c610 staying. The instructions will really be the same so I'd just say it can be on either side of the connector where the wires are cut.

[Gary Lewis]

Yes.  Here are my thoughts on C610, and I plan to put them in the doc:

KEEP: This approach lets you go back to either a 1G or a 2G.  And, you get longer wires as a result.  For instance, on the light green/red wire from the ignition switch you may not have to add any wire to connect it to the 3G's pigtail.  Similarly, there may be enough of the large yellow wire after C610 to connect to your megafuse without splicing.

REMOVE: This is the cleanest approach and you remove a potential failure point of an unneeded connector.

If you have upgrades or suggestions to those thoughts, please let me know.

[kramttocs]

I like it. Lay it out and let the user decide what works for them.

[Gary Lewis]

That's the plan, Stan.  

Thanks, Scott.

[Machspeed]

Gary Lewis wrote

Ok guys, let's try this.  I appreciate the input.

1G:

With shunt and with voltmeter.  This means C610 stays.

Without shunt but with voltmeter.  This means C610 can go away.

With warning lights.  Easy peasy.

2G:

With shunt and with voltmeter.  This means C610 stays.

Without shunt but with voltmeter.  This means C610 can go away.

Agreed?  My cunning plan is to get the ideas nailed down and then work it during the Super Bowl.  Doubt I'll get it done, but I hope I'll have something we can tweak a week from now.

Bump.....you working on this today, Gary

[Gary Lewis]

Machspeed wrote

Bump.....you working on this today, Gary

Go look at Documentation/Electrical/3G Conversion/3G Conversion - In Development.  So, yes.  But Bible class starts in 8 minutes and then church, so I'll pick it up after lunch.

Comments on what's there would be appreciated!  Very VERY much a work in progress.

[Machspeed]

No, I was just re-reading some of the past posts on this thread and noted that you said you'd be messing with it today on Super Bowl Sunday. Thought I'd  push your buttons a little. I'll check it out after Church this afternoon sometime. Thanks! Enjoy the Super Bowl. Pulling for the Chiefs.

[ArdWrknTrk]

I'm still stuck on following this path.
Maybe it's just the clickable drop-down thing again, but I don't see different wiring schemes when I click.

I did go to the Bullnose upgrades tab too, and under vendors I don't see PA Performance.
They have the harnii, alternators and even a 'plug'n play' dummy 1G regulator

[Rusty_S85]

ArdWrknTrk wrote

I'm still stuck on following this path.
Maybe it's just the clickable drop-down thing again, but I don't see different wiring schemes when I click.

I did go to the Bullnose upgrades tab too, and under vendors I don't see PA Performance.
They have the harnii, alternators and even a 'plug'n play' dummy 1G regulator

I still cant find any information on how the dummy 1G regulator is supposed to work.  It some how is supposed to reroute the wiring to make a 3G internal regulator plug and play but you still have to change the connectors on the OE harness that plugged into the 1G alternator.

I looked at it as I am trying to find a way to make my change but have it plug and play over cutting and splicing the wiring.  Big reason why I am looking for a OE harness either original or reproduction that I can cut apart and reroute the wires to make my connections.

[Gary Lewis]

You are way ahead of my game, Jim.  Or maybe I'm way behind my game?  

I'm working right now on the 2G conversion 'cause that's what John is doing, and I thought that would be a really good test.  But as I put things in there unless I hit PUBLISH you won't see them.  So while there's more to see than you are seeing, we are FAR from having content.

So the real question to y'all is does the new layout work?  And disregard the 1996 3G page that's floating around at the bottom.  Haven't decided whether to use it or delete it yet, so it is just hanging around.

You should be able to go to Documentation/Electrical/3G Upgrades/3G Upgrades - In Development and see the layout.

[Gary Lewis]

Rusty - I don't know anything about a dummy 1G regulator, but I suspect it is just a wiring trick to allow you to use a 3G where a 1G was.  And if it does what I think it does and puts the output of the alternator right back into the shunt to charge the battery you'd better not put a 130A 3G in there as the shunt won't take it.

Anyway, I'll let others address that as I'm trying to get something going on the new 3G page  

[Rusty_S85]

Gary Lewis wrote

Rusty - I don't know anything about a dummy 1G regulator, but I suspect it is just a wiring trick to allow you to use a 3G where a 1G was.  And if it does what I think it does and puts the output of the alternator right back into the shunt to charge the battery you'd better not put a 130A 3G in there as the shunt won't take it.

Anyway, I'll let others address that as I'm trying to get something going on the new 3G page  

Thats basically what it is, PA Performance sells them states that they allow you to keep your ammeter functional.  But mine is not functional, Ive been moving my truck with no belts on it and the ammeter doesnt swing to discharge not even the slightest so that is what prompted me to simply unplug the whole charge circuit and external regulator toss it in a box and put it up in storage with the 1G alternator and then source another harness that I can cut on to reroute the wires so my 3G will be plug and play with the two wires for the shunt for the ammeter are left disconnected.

Eventually I will be running a volt gauge, either sending the OE unit off to be converted or swapping to a vintage looking RTX cluster from Dakota Digital when they get off their rear and make it lol.

Im just curious about the whole wiring aspect of it cause my '58 Ford tractor was converted to an alternator and they used the regulator as a wiring point and installed an ammeter which I really want to get away from and go back to an idiot light so I can install the correct fuel gauge there.  But for the life of me I cant figure out the wiring on why they did what they did.  I know I am not a Einstein when it comes to wiring but I am also not a caveman and I just cant figure something like that out and normally I can figure quite a bit out via diagrams looking at the circuit.

[ArdWrknTrk]

Rusty, their dummy regulator is just that, a regulator shell that plugs right into a 3G alternator.
It basically loops the sense wire to the onboard 3G regulator, and provides 'key on' power to the 'I' lead.

[ArdWrknTrk]

Okay.
I was clicking around and not seeing the variants you'd mentioned.

I still think you ought to have the "stages" all in one image (jpeg or whatever) so there's not a bunch of clicking back and forth for a noob to try and compare them.
Also, that would make it easy for someone to hit 'print' and have the information in hand while out in their driveway or garage.

Having the *darn* screen time out, or the sun glaring makes for a VERY frustrating experience.

[Rusty_S85]

ArdWrknTrk wrote

Rusty, their dummy regulator is just that, a regulator shell that plugs right into a 3G alternator.
It basically loops the sense wire to the onboard 3G regulator, and provides 'key on' power to the 'I' lead.

So it comes with a harness to redirect to the 3G alternator?

Hmm if so that might be a better option for me than trying to source another harness to cut up and modify.

[Gary Lewis]

I think we are together if by "stages" you mean the following for each scenario:

Here's a pic of your harness, what each of the wires are, and where you can cut them

Here's the original schematic

Here's what to cut on the schematic

Here's the to-be schematic inc where you should splice what wires together.

And as an example of the harness pic, here's what I'm working on at present - at John's request:

[ArdWrknTrk]

You put your regulator plug into it.
You plug it into your new 3G
Not difficult.

[Rusty_S85]

ArdWrknTrk wrote

You put your regulator plug into it.
You plug it into your new 3G
Not difficult.

Thats what I was wondering all about, I really dont want to have it with a functional shunt through the ammeter, but wasnt sure cause when you look at the regulator from PA Performance that sells it its just a photo of the regulator that makes it looks like you plug your OE harness into it then you chop up your OE harness with the 1G alternator ends and connect your 3G alternator ends to it.  Makes it seem like its more than just a simple plug and play setup which is what I ideally was wanting something that I can simply unplug my old circuits and plug in the new and be done.

[Machspeed]

This should work out good for everyone with me being the test subject....LOL! If someone is going to inject confusion in a dummies 101 how to, that would be me

[Gary Lewis]

OK guys, time for me to quit as my head hurts.  Not sure how much is the COVID shot and how much is due to beating it against the proverbial brick wall of Weebly.

But, please review what I've done, and remind me later that the Choosing An Alternator tab needs lots of work, especially re clocking.

Anyway, I think these things may be done:

Wiring It tab and then the 3G Harness tab.  Pretty much a carry over from the previous page, but may need some formatting.

Wiring It/Circuit Protection: Ditto above, a carryover

Wiring It/2G Wiring Changes/Keep Shunt: This is John's scenario and I think it is pretty close.  However, it certainly isn't done with respect to the voltmeter.  And here's my problem - there are two ways to solve this.  One is to leave the R/O wire connected to the shunt @ S203 and then ground the Y/LG wire with a relay pulled in by the stator wire or the LG/R wire.  This would serve all situations.  Or, we could suggest that those that have the 351HO use the choke relay.  So, do we have two scenarios?    I'm inclined to say we forget the choke relay and recommend everyone use a relay to ground the voltmeter.

Thoughts, please!