Gary's "Nothing Special" Moab trip

[Gary Lewis]

Bob - I've started a document and embedded it in my first post.  But it is very preliminary, so don't worry that it looks like I'm including the kitchen sink.  

The tools list I got some time ago from an outfit that arranges remote adventures and I put the whole list in.  But I'll go through the list and see what I have vs what they recommend and modify the list as I think appropriate.  (But I already have a lot of that.  )

And yes, I have a spare.  But I don't have a tire repair kit so will get one.  And I'll throw in some valve stem caps.

I do have a driveaway lock for the OX locker.  But I hadn't planned to bring u-joints as I don't have all the tools with which to change them out.

[BigBrother-84]

Gary Lewis wrote

But it is very preliminary, so don't worry that it looks like I'm including the kitchen sink.

Gary Lewis wrote

And yes, I have a spare.

No joke, I was wondering about it after reading at your list!


I had similar tools and stuff for Big Brother’s Big Tour (although no air tools), and even that I had to buy a nice compact steering puller, when a little plastic tab of my turn signal switch broke, dropped in and blocked the entire flasher movement.

We always carry all the tools but the one we need.


One thing I was happy to have was a small foldable plastic stepladder, to easily access the engine compartment.  But maybe Big Blue’s front bumper is enough wide for this purpose.

[Gary Lewis]

That's an idea, Jeff.  I do have one of these that I use all the time to access Big Blue's engine.  In fact, it is ratchet-strapped to the LF tire at the moment 'cause it kept walking away as I worked.  But since it folds up nicely I could take it if there's room.  It is now on the list.  Thanks!

[Nothing Special]

Gary Lewis wrote

....  But I don't have a tire repair kit so will get one....  But I hadn't planned to bring u-joints as I don't have all the tools with which to change them out.

Please don't take the list of things I don't bring as a request that you bring them!  If I haven't found the need over the 37 years I've been 'wheeling to carry something, it probably won't be needed on this trip!  I'm trying to help you think this through (because I know you like doing that!).  But my overall advice here is similar to what I said about modifications you should make before the trip.  Get what you want to get, and don't worry about what others say.  With some basic hand tools and spare fluids we'll survive anything that comes up.  Not saying you can't bring the kitchen sink if you want to (it might be nice for washing hands after getting them dirty on some repair!).  But "if you want to."

[Gary Lewis]

I'm taking the things people say as a suggestion and then evaluating them on my own.  So keep suggesting and I'll keep evaluating.

For instance, Jeff's idea of a step stool was a good one as BB's engine compartment is hard to reach from the ground.  And I don't like standing on the bumper as it is old and the chrome is thin.  Besides, the fog lights are there so there's not a lot of room to put your feet.  And if you have to reach to the back you have to be on your knees on the radiator support, and my knees do NOT like that.  So the step stool is on the list with a question mark to see how much room we have as the packing begins.

As for the tire repair kit, my nephews had both recommended that a few years ago but I've not done it.  However, since they've been to Moab several times I should think about that.  (Btw, Hell's Revenge is the favorite trail for one of them.)

[Nothing Special]

Nothing Special wrote

....  Not saying you can't bring the kitchen sink if you want to (it might be nice for washing hands after getting them dirty on some repair!)....

And on the serious side, I do bring waterless hand cleaner and a roll of shop towels.

And back to other people's suggestions, I have seen valve stems torn or ripped out in some YouTube videos, so spare valve stems are sometimes recommended.  I've heard that there are valve stems that can be installed from the outside.  Not sure how that works, but if they are a thing (and a good thing) it would sure beat having to break a bead to replace a valve stem and then reseat it.


(I'm not surprised Hell's Revenge is his favorite trail.  It's a good 'un!)

[Gary Lewis]

Bob - I'd never even heard of replacing a valve stem w/o busting the bead, but now that I've done a bit of research there are dozens of videos on how to do that.  However, the best ones appear to be associated with this kit from Amazon: AME INTL 51025 Quick Tire Valve Change Tool.  That looks slick, and it is now on the list, albeit with a question mark.  But at $45 it would be a huge benefit on the trail, so I suspect there will be one in my tool box.  

And I have hand cleaner and two rolls of paper towels.  

[Gary Lewis]

Gary Lewis wrote

On the trail names, I may throw another in the mix. I have the Garmin Montana and need to see what trails it shows and what it calls them. Plus I have Gaia, All Trails, & onX Offroad. So even if Garmin doesn’t have a trail I can download it from one of the others and import it. But I haven’t started that yet should do, soon.

Well, I'm finally to the point that I'm dusting off the Garmin Montana with the intent of checking out what trails it has loaded in.  But before I got started the thing told me that there were several updates to both the software and the maps that I needed to do.  And that's where the trouble started.

The problem was that there wasn't enough storage in the device's internal storage to do the updates.  However, there was enough storage on the external chip I have installed, so I tried to move some files from internal to external storage.  Unfortunately there wasn't enough room to even do that!  

After a while I was able to delete enough things on the internal storage to move a file, and then another and another, and finally got the updates installed.  Then I started looking for the trails we are going to run, and none of them are listed on the Garmin maps.

So I downloaded a gpx file and tried to upload it to Garmin's Basecamp app.  But they've discontinued Basecamp, so now you have to install Garmin Express.  By this time the frustration was running HIGH!

So I took a break and went over to facebook where I found a guy on the Oklahoma Back Roads page asking how to get the Sugar Creek Loop map file over to his Garmin.  And the responses echoed exactly what I was feeling - "Don't waste your time!  The user interface is horrible and it won't have the maps you want when you get there."

So I'm about to sign up for OnX Offroad and see if I can download maps for our trails and then upload them to the Garmin.  If not I may have a Garmin for sale - cheap.  

[Nothing Special]

Yeah, I've never been overjoyed with Garmin's user interface.  But it's what I've used so I keep using it.

I've heard good things about OnX, but I've never used it.  From what I've heard I'm pretty sure all of the trails we're looking at will be available there.

[Gary Lewis]

I've subscribed to OnX and am poking around. But all the trails I'm looking at are there, including the Sugar Creek Loop in SW OK, where we are going on Thursday. The app is easy to use and I think I'm going to like it.

However, I am going to try to download the OnX maps for the various trails and load them up to the Garmin. I've just gotten that done for Sugar Creek, although the map didn't come from OnX so that may turn into an issue. But I need to record how I got it to the Garmin:

1. Garmin Explore on tablet: Using Explore via a browser on my tablet I "imported" the file and put it in a new collection.
2. Garmin Explore on iPhone: I can't get Explore on the tablet to then sync to the Montana. But Explore on the iPhone will sync to the Montana, and since the two Explores are apparently are looking at the same file on the cloud if if put it on via the tablet it is there for the iPhone. However, the first sync took 30 minutes and it takes wifi.

[Gary Lewis]

Man, this Garmin stuff is awful!  I doubt I'll ever have another Garmin device.

I subscribed to OnX but downloading files isn't easy.  However it is from AllTrails, even though I let my subscription there lapse, so I downloaded Hell's Revenge as a .gpx file.  But neither the Garmin Explore app on my iPhone nor Explore via Chrome on the Windows machine would load it up - in spite of them both saying they will.  There's a note on the Garmin site that says the latest changes on iOS are the problem, but that's not the whole truth as that wouldn't account for the problem on Windows.

So I uploaded the gpx file to Google Maps and then exported it as a kmz file and Explore on Chrome on the Windows machine loaded it.  But, still, the Windows machine won't sync with the Montana, so I did the sync from the iPhone.  However, probably because it wasn't a gpx file, that doesn't show up in Saved Tracks on the Montana.  

[BigBrother-84]

Gary Lewis wrote

I've subscribed to OnX and am poking around.  […]  The app is easy to use and I think I'm going to like it.
However, I am going to try to download the OnX maps for the various trails and load them up to the Garmin.

Gary, since you subscribed to OnX, why do you still fight to install the maps on your Garmin?

[Gary Lewis]

BigBrother-84 wrote

Gary, since you subscribed to OnX, why do you still fight to install the maps on your Garmin?

Let me count the reasons:

1. I'm stubborn
2. I have more than $800 invested in the Garmin and think it ought to work for that price
3. It gives turn-by-turn guidance through the Sony head unit and we don't have to keep our eyes glued to it
4. It sits in a nice cradle and comes on when you start the truck & is supposed to go off when you turn the key off, but it doesn't always do that.
5. I'm stubborn

[BigBrother-84]

Gary Lewis wrote

Let me count the reasons:
1. I'm stubborn
[…]
5. I'm stubborn

Ok, I know exactly what you mean. How much time I too spent in my life, «I will make this thing work!»

[Gary Lewis]

How many strikes do I give this thing???

Today I decided I'd program in a route from home to Hinton where we'll pick up the Sugar Creek Loop.  That was easy on the Montana - select Route Planner, then Create Route, then Add Point, then Cities and type in Hinton and select the only one that's OK.  Yippee, I know what I'm doing?

So I decided to make a route to the barbershop I'm headed to tomorrow, just to see that turn-by-turn guidance is working: Route Planner, Add Point, Addresses, and type in the address.  The Montana finds the address and you click on the right one if there are multiples.  I did and it dropped a pin and then locked up, showing the map with a pin in it, at the right place I might add, but allowing me to do NOTHING else.  In fact, I had to remove the battery to get control again.

After three more times of exactly the same thing I called Garmin.  Trever said they have a ticket open as someone else has had the same problem.  But, he gave me a workaround, which I tried later that didn't work as it couldn't find the address.  But at least it didn't lock up.

While I had him on the phone I asked him about the Hell's Revenge track file that I put on the Explore map but won't sync from Explore to the Montana.  I told him that Garmin's maps don't have it, and he didn't seem surprised, but that I'd downloaded it from AllTrails and uploaded it to Google Maps and then downloaded it to Explore - which he thought is a reasonable approach.  But since it didn't work he suggested I turn it into a route instead of a track, which I did after the call and it won't sync either.

Then he said he'd email me a link to another site that will let me import and then export the file which may fix something in the file.  But the email that just came in said there was a link - and there wasn't one.

[BigBrother-84]

I suspect that you are actually patenting the first «flying-through-the-window» Garmin.

Keep us informed about the public official launch date.

[Gary Lewis]

I doubt it'll be a public launch.

Instead I'm reviewing my "friend" list to see if I want to give it to someone.  

[BigBrother-84]

[Nothing Special]

I have a couple of Garmins and have no reason to leave them, but I use them quite differently than you.

My "main" Garmin is an Astro 320.  That's a hand-held mapping GPS.  Its main unique feature is that it will pair with one or more transmitters that are attached to a dog collar, so you can track yourself and one or more dogs.  In addition to that feature (which can be nice on a trail ride because you can put the dog collar in another vehicle and know where your tailgunner is), it also functions as a hand-held mapping GPS.  So it will show you where you are on whatever map you've loaded and it will create and display waypoints and tracks.  But as far as navigating, while it has some rudimentary abilities, I find it really only helpful as a map that shows me where I am, and then I do the navigating.  As I noted above, I don't find its user interface all that intuitive.  But since I do so little with it it does work for me.

My other Garmin is a Drive 52, which I think is a pretty basic automotive nav unit.  I've never tried to load anything onto it, so I don't know if it's even possible, much less easy.  It is a little annoying finding an address or something in it (user interface again), and if I want to tweak the route it suggests for me (like not going through downtown Atlanta on the way to Disney World) it doesn't work as well as I'd like.  But it does work for what I use it for, which is basic automotive navigation.

So I'm certainly not trying to sell anyone on Garmin, but I'm not looking to sell mine either.

[Gary Lewis]

I don't intend to have another Garmin.  Using AllTrails, OnX, or Gaia is easy, so why have the frustration of an antagonistic user interface?

Then there's the freezing up.  There are two ways to input an address, and one way I put in my barbershop's address the system locks up - but showing the right location on the map.  The other way it says that address doesn't exist.  Clearly it does as if you Google the shop it gives that address.  And if I fire up their app it gives the same address.  So the address is right but Garmin doesn't know about it - in spite of the place having been there for years.

I learned over 50 years ago that when you encounter a situation you didn't expect in your software that you do NOT halt the app.  Apparently the programmers at Garmin haven't learned that lesson.

So tomorrow when I go to get my hair cut I'll try OnX in the iPhone with it paired to the Sony head unit.  Hopefully I'll get turn-by-turn directions.  If so I'm thinking of going with a Magsafe mount like this one, which will put my iPhone exactly where the Garmin has been by using the ball already mounted to the floor.  That way we can use OnX for the trails and Google or Apple maps for on-roading.