Fixing Eddie

[firefire]

Hi.
Thanks for your comments. I tried this gasket yesterday. The roughest looking but best so far. And I tightened the bolts from the ends and in wards. Then I drove around for a long time and had no leak. But in the evening there was a little ticking again. Took it out today but this time it was cylinder 7 that had a little leak.
Could probably be fixed had I tightened up the bolts. So back in with the gasket. And out on the road. Filled Eddie up with gas, E10 now. Compared to non ethanol gas Eddie runs leaner. WOT afr is 12, and cruising is 14.5 - 15,5. He still got power. Eddie taking a rest.  I borrowed a Bosch temp. reader at work. Headers. Radiator hose  front oil pan Interesting numbers🙂. The gasket works fine. Occasionally a weak ticking sound but I will let it be for now. We went to Trollstigen to have a look. The part of the road in the picture will not open before June 1.
Eddies gas consumption was so low I have to do another tes drive....
Greetings Stein

[Gary Lewis]

Beautiful pictures of beautiful Norway!  And a good one of Eddie as well.

As for the temp ones, that's interesting.  Not sure how to use them, but they are interesting none the less.

I don't know for sure, but I think the torque sequence you are using could be contributing to the leakage.  The torque sequence shown below is for a head, but it illustrates the idea that you want to start in the center and work outward in sort of a spiral.  That's because if you tighten down the ends first the center may not touch with enough force to create a seal.

[firefire]

Hi.
I did torque the bolts earlier like you say I may should. But since I had no succes with that I tried the opposite. Theory being to get the end down good at first. And it did work better in this case. But could also be a better gasket.
For temps I dont know what to consider normal. 158'c at the bottom of the oil pan seems hot. 87'c on the spark plug too maybe. But coolant at 71'c I consider ok.
Cant hear any pinging.
Greetings Stein

[Gary Lewis]

If it works it works, so no need to change.  

On the temps, 158C is 316F and that is very hot for oil as this site says it should be 110C/230F to 127C/260F.  87C/189F would seem cool for a spark plug, but I really don't know.  And 71C/160F is cool for coolant.

So maybe there's some set up you have to do with that gun?

[firefire]

Hi.
Here is a new report on the exhaust leak case.But first the temp reading on the oil pan was false. Something with the angle of reading or the background fooled the meter.When reading close to the pan the temp was between 70 and 80'c anywhere on the pan. I think I had the headers on and off 3 times with different seals. And everythime I got home from a test drive the ticking was there. It made me nervous that there was something wrong with the engine. I could not see signs of exhaust leaks. Lastly I put a fiber gasket against the head and outside of that I put the MultiLayerSteel gasket. With this sandwich I figured there could be no leak.  So I started up and no ticking. But as the engine heated up the ticking sound came back. I just could not pinpoint the sound. So I bought a stetoscope  No ticking from the headers, valve covers, ps pump, ac, distributor, block, oil pressure sensor or oil filter. Then put it on the fuel pump. And there it was.. When all this started I suspected the ticking was from the fuel pump and replaced it. But then it was the exhaust seal. So I had replaced a good fuel pump with a bad one. This was a new Spectra Premium 1005 mp. It has better outside finish but that does not help when its bad inside. Spectra pump left.  Looks like the pump has a bent or canted rod .  On page 23  in my thread you have something similar going on. And I lost faith in Spectra Premium being Premium. Next I have to adjust timing. Used a light and the readings were for total advance: 600rpm/ 12'btds, 1000/12'btds, 1500/24'btds, 2000/40'btds, 2500/42'btds. Then with vacuum disconnected : 600/12, 1000/12, 1500/14, 2000/16 , 2500/18.
Did not go higher. I believe total is to high. Had the distributor out and it made a rattling sound when shaken. Is that normal ? Waiting for a new distributor and will then check the innards of the old one. I mean the weights/ springs. Also waiting for a new dash voltage regulator from Carpenter. There is enough to do. 3 weeks to vacation..🙂
Greetings Stein

[Gary Lewis]

Well, at least you figured out what the noise is, and you have a well-sealed header.  

As for the distributor, I don't think it should rattle.  I just shook the one that I have laying around and it didn't rattle.

But I don't know that you have too much advance.  I wouldn't look at the #'s with the vacuum connected.  Instead just use the #'s w/o vacuum.  And 18 degrees of mechanical advance isn't all that much.  If you are running 12 degrees initial advance that's only 30 degrees total.  I tend to remember 30 - 35 being about right for a 351W.

So if you don't have pinging then you probably don't have too much.

But I'll tag Bill as he will know better than I do.

[firefire]

Hi.
For the time I have a partly dismantled dash, front seats and carpet out of the car and a distributor in pieces on my work bench 🙂. I am waiting for a new voltage regulator. I noticed how bleak the pointers were so I painted them.  If I am lucky the voltage regulator will be here tomorrow. The front carpet is out for a cleaning.
I got a new distributor today. So out with the old. I dismantled it down to the weights.  They are making a little rattle when shaking the distributor. Could not see anything wrong there. I see there is a strong and a weak spring in there. Is that original ? Or a tuning trick ? Also cleaned up this for new grease  It was very gritty and the pickup did not turn easily ( vacuum advance).
Next up will be deciding new dizzy or cleaned up old ?  
Greetings Stein

[Gary Lewis]

Gauges look great!  

While the carpet is out have you thought of adding sound deadening?  Or have you already done that?

You are adding a solid state voltage regulator the gauges?

On the distributor it is normal to have a weak spring and a strong spring.  But you might not put the new distributor in?  Why?  The bearings ought to be better.  But the timing may be different as it could have different springs and weights.

[85lebaront2]

Ford Dual advance distributors:

First, the tang in the advance cam slot, it should have a piece of rubber over it so it doesn't rattle at lower RPM. Springs, if you examine them closely, you will see the heavy spring has a bit of play in the ends. The light spring controls the centrifugal advance up to a certain point, then the heavy spring slows the rate down. My 1966 Shelby GT350 had a dual point centrifugal only distributor. The advance was mostly in by 4000 rpm, but it would still continue, although slower, to 6000 rpm.

[firefire]

Hi.
Now the dash has come back in. And with the new voltage regulator the needles for oil pressure and temperatur is back in the middle of the normal. Voltage reg. in the right hand upper corner. Next up was to get in the new distributor Wai Global dst2895a. Decided to use the lid and rotor from my Motorcraft distributor. The Motorcraft lid had thicker points and a spring loaded center point. Their rotor looked better too. Putting in the distributor should be easy....  But I just could not get the distributor all down. I tried and tried but it would not enter. I think after an hour I finally understood what was wrong.  The drive shaft for the oil pump rested off center. So it would not enter inside the distributor shaft. If I pushed the shaft to straighten it up it just slipped out to the side again and again. Did not help to do this either
 When I put some sticky grease on the axle I made it centered long enough to get the distributor down. But I could not get the new distributor to match settings I had marked after the old . After awhile I understood that they look the same but they are not. So then it was under the engine and turn it to 0 center. And fiddle again and again with the axle. I also had to turn it in small increments ( 8 mm socket ) to make it easier for it to enter😡. After 4 hours I got the distributor in pointing at cylinder 1. Here is the advance. Only mechanical. Initial is 12 btdc.
600 rpm/ 12btdc, 1000/12, 1500/12, 2000/26, 3000/28, 4000/32. With vacuum ( ported ), 1000/12, 1500/16, 2000/42, after 2000 out of the markings on the balancer. Any comments ? Will go for a ride later in the evening.
Vacumed Eddies carpet after it had dried up outdoors. Afterwards I placed the carpet and seats inside, closed all doors and windows. Then fired of this inside. Can guarantee there is no old car smell any more😄.
Greetings Stein

[Gary Lewis]

You are making good progress.  You'll be ready for your trip, soon.  

Comparing your new distributor's timing to the old one:

New: 600/12, 1000/12, 1500/12, 2000/26, 3000/28, 4000/32.

Old:  600/12, 1000/12, 1500/14, 2000/16 , 2500/18

So you are getting most of the advance between 1500 & 2000 RPM.  That will make a noticeable difference in the throttle response as the added advance is going to give the engine more pep, for sure.  But you may have pinging with the vacuum connected, so you should drive is some before taking off.

The place where you may have problems is around 2000 RPM with light throttle but heavy load.  So take it for a drive and try listening closely as you try climbing hills with a light throttle so the vacuum stays up and gives you the most advance.

[firefire]

Hi.
Have just parked Eddie. After a ride to visit some friends. Only a 30 mintes drive each way. Mostly flat road , speed 30 - 50 mph. Did not notice any  pinging or problems. Eddie accelerated great when given full throttle. I am not sure what you meant about pinging and vacuum connected.
I will test as you suggested up a little hill. Do you think the added advance from the vacuum canister will not drop out ?
Dont know yet if the vacuum canister is adjustable.
About the carpets I think they are ok. They have felt under. The exhaust could be less noisy but it is what it is😄 And I added a solid state regulater from Dennis Carpenter. It looks exactly like the old one but is heavier. Great product.
Greetings Stein

[Gary Lewis]

There's a document from Crane Cams re how to adjust ignition timing that might help your understanding.  It is on the page at Documentation/Electrical/Ignition and the Instructions tab followed by the Crane Cams Instructions tab.

But what happens is that with no load on the engine there is high vacuum so you get the most advance possible from the vacuum advance unit.  As you open the throttle to climb a hill or accelerate the vacuum goes down so the advance reduces - depending on the vacuum advance.  But at the same time the extra throttle is raising the pressure in the cylinders, technically known as brake mean effective pressure or BMEP.  The higher the BMEP the faster the air/fuel mix burns and the less ignition advance it can handle until the mix essentially explodes rather than burns, and that causes detonation.  But just prior to detonation is pinging, a sort of rattling or clattering in the engine.

It is hard to say where that might happen, but climbing a hill that requires a bit more throttle at an RPM where the distributor has given a lot of advance is the likely spot.  And your distributor is giving you a lot of advance between 1500 and 2000 RPM, so some place in the middle of that would be my guess as to where it would happen - if it happens.

As the Crane instructions say, if you get pinging you should back off the vacuum advance - if it is adjustable.  Many of them are adjustable via an Allen wrench inserted through the vacuum fitting.  You want to back off enough that you don't have any pinging, but not much more as the advance helps the economy.

[firefire]

Hi.
Did not get to try Eddie today. To much rain.
Made a diagram showing the timing. It is a little easier to understand the numbers then.
Hoping for better weather tomorrow
Greetings Stein

[Gary Lewis]

Stein - A couple of things about your chart.

First, you can now see what I was talking about with the rapid advance between 1500 and 2000 RPM.  And that's a consequence of the light vs heavy spring.  The light spring determines the advance in the lower RPM range, and the heavier spring the upper RPM range.  But as Bill pointed out, the heavier spring's loops are elongated, and that means that spring doesn't come into play until the higher RPM range - probably 2000 RPM.

Second, the vacuum advance isn't tied to RPM.  Instead it is tied to vacuum.  You originally gave the readings of "1000/12, 1500/16, 2000/42" but instead the 1000 - 2000 should be inches of vacuum and not RPM.  In fact, you can easily have the same vacuum value at a wide range of RPM.  For instance, you might have 20" of vacuum at idle in neutral, and 20" of vacuum while descending a slight hill at 3000 RPM.

The advance probably starts coming in around 8 to 10" of vacuum and may be fully in by 18".

Does that make sense?

[firefire]

Hi.
Thanks for your thorough explanation. I know vacuum drives the vacuum advance. I did try as you suggested to provoke pinging going up a hill. But could not hear any. So today I connected a vacuum gauge to a tee on the vacuum hose to the vacuum canister.
First I tested the vacuum advance with the vacuum pump. The advance started moving at 5 hg and reached max advance at 15 hg.
When parked at 600 rpm O vacuum, 1000rpm 2hg, 1500rpm12hg,2000rpm15hg. Max recorded vacuum has been up to 17 hg when cruising at 50mph/ 2200-2300 rpm.. So when I reach15 hg I have maximum vacuum advance.
I tried moderate acceleration from 35-50 mph and vacuum is between 5 and 10. With hard acceleration uphill or flat the vacuum drops to 0 immediately. When going uphill  keeping steady speed at 1500 or 2000 rpm I got 10-12 hg. So thats the numbers. Comments ? I think Eddie behaves ok.
 Maybe the mechanical advance should hit max closer to 3000 rpm ?
Greetings Stein.

[Gary Lewis]

I think you've done a good job of testing.  And since you aren't hearing any pinging then I think you literally good to go.  I wouldn't change anything.  Just finish up for your trip.  

[firefire]

Hi.
Here is a little report from Peshiera, Garda Sea, Italy. We left this ,Åndalsnes, 20.June The 22.June we drove 525 km to Fulda on Autobahn. Eddie stayed most of the time in the right lane at speeds between 55 and 60 mph. In the left lane it really goes fast at times😯.Next day to Munich on small roads. Later we visited Kehlsteinhaus( eagle nest).  Lots of tourists there from all over the world. Over the Grossglockner pass ,2400 m/ 8000 feet, we entered Italy. What is really strange for us is how green it is. All the way up to 2000 meters. Here we have come down from the mountains Along the Garda Sea there is town after town filled up with hotels. Eddie runs great. Changed the oil cooler for a slightly larger model, Hayden 699. Up the steepest roads , 23%😱, the oil temperature never got more than 92 'C. I think thats good. The only problem is the rear window that either wont close or open properly. If I lift or push the glass to help it it may move. The motor works. Will try to oil the mechanism if I can find a spray bottle.
Greetings Stein

[Gary Lewis]

Love it!  Beautiful pictures!  Glad Eddie is running good.  That makes the trip fun.

The picture of the Kehlsteinhaus brings back lots of good memories.  We've been there a couple of times, and I hiked up and took the same pic you did, although we were there is September so there weren't that many people.  It was COLD!

Did you go to the Konigsee and take the ferry?  See the alpenhorns?

Lake Garda, or Garda See, is a beautiful area.  In fact, there is not an area there that isn't beautiful!

[Gsmblue]

Always a pleasure to read your posts and see how much work you are putting into Eddie!

The rear window probably just needs a service. the plastic guides the window scissors have at the end can wear out and inside the motor gearbox there are some plastic bits that wear and break. These can be serviced, I just swapped the whole motor and gear box on Espy.