Camera System For Big Blue

[grumpin]

Kenwood is good IMO.

That’s the main reason I showed that setup.

Man, you wouldn’t think this would be so hard!

[Gary Lewis]

Yes, Kenwood is good. But I do not believe they have what I need. There website sure doesn't show it. And they've not responded.

No, it shouldn't be that hard. However, nothing is plug & play any more. There are lots and LOTS of generic cameras with RCA connectors, but none of the new systems use them.

So trying to piece something together is a nightmare.

[Gary Lewis]

Today's update is that I heard from Kenwood: "Unfortunately Kenwood does not manufacture rear view mirrors with external cameras. We apologize for the inconvenience."

But I did hear back from Pormido, and learned that I don't really care for their approach to having people test.  Here's what Melissa said:

1) We pay you 50% (around $100) to your paypal first.
2) You purchase the product by searching our provided key words.
3) You post 5 stars review with picture or video in one week after you receive the product, then we pay you all the balance amount including Paypal charges

To me that's basically "buying" reviews.  So I'll just buy the model I want, which is the PORMIDO 12” Mirror Dash Cam with Detached Front Camera.

I still haven't heard back from Melissa on what the dimensions are for the front camera, but I've found these waterproof plastic boxes, which have clear lids.  In the pic of the camera, my understanding is the red is the adhesive used to attach it to the windshield.  So I'm thinking I'd just attach it to the plastic lid, although I don't know yet if that box is the right size.

Anyone have any other ideas?  Suggestions?

[grumpin]

Too bad about Kenwood not having a mirror.

Yeah, I wouldn’t like that way of testing either. I guess some people have no qualms about it.

I like the box idea!

[BigBrother-84]

Still skeptical, any way to hook a rear licence plate camera in place of the «Detached Front Camera»?

They say «both Front and Rear camera are equipped with SONY sensor IMX335 F/2.0 aperture, captures HD footage even under low light.»
So cams quality is the same, no image difference.

They also specify that Rear Camera «is waterproof and can stand well outside even under extreme temperature during 4 °F to 190°F under various climates.»

If the wiring is the same, why not hook two Rear Cameras to the mirror/monitor?

[Gary Lewis]

I know that Amazon has been accused of buying reviews, but apparently the vendors themselves are doing it.  And I don't want to be part of it.

Anyway, watching a video of one reviewer it looks like the front camera itself is round, with the lens coming off the side as well as that column that has the red bit, that I think is adhesive, on it.  And it has what looks like a 3mm plug which goes into the end of it.

So I'm thinking that I can put the 3mm plug through a waterproof gland joint through the side of the case.  Attach the camera to the lid, plug the connector in, put the lid on, and then tighten the gland joint down.

As for mounting it, there is 3 1/2" of space above the winch fairlead and I might be able to attach the box there with doublesided tape.  Or, I could put a bracket on the fog light bracket and attach the box to that.

I think I need to measure some more and make sure that the camera won't be the leading edge.  

[Gary Lewis]

Melissa, from Pormido, has repeatedly told me that the system isn't capable of powering a rear camera plugged into the front camera spot.  I've asked that question multiple ways, multiple times and have gotten the same answer each time.  In fact, she told me that one customer did that and the system failed soon thereafter.

I don't understand why that is, but I believe her well enough not to try it.   

[Gary Lewis]

Jeff - You caused me to rethink this, and I'm coming around to your way of thinking. Both cameras are using Sony IMX335 chips, although with different lenses to get the different angles. So, how can the rear camera hurt the electronics if it is put in place of the front camera? Given that, here's my latest "cunning plan", and I'd like y'all to comment:

1. Order the 998 system with just the two cameras, front and rear.
2. Cut the cable to the front camera, which has to be done anyway as the cable is far too short to reach the front bumper, and measure the current required to run it.
3. Somehow measure the current required to run the rear camera. The cable that comes with it is 33' long, so I'll probably want to shorten it anyway.
4. If the current to run the front camera is reasonably close to that required to run the rear camera, order an extra Pormido New Backup Camera for D50 PR998
5. If the current is much greater for the rear camera then install the front camera in a plastic box.

Thoughts? I'm about ready to order, so would appreciate your input.

[BigBrother-84]

Reading at their specifications, seems that you do not have to cut front wire to extend it:


I would buy an extension cord and see if plugs are the same for front and rear cams, and first simply playing around changing plug position of the two.
Not clear for me if they have identical plugs:


Reading at that text, seems that a user can plug the reverse cam in the wrong outlet?  And if so, what do they call "well recognized":  Meaning not working at all, or will not display the colored guidelines?  Not clear...

[Gary Lewis]

Well spotted, Jeff!  I hadn't seen the front camera extension.  However, I'm doubting that 10' will be long enough if I have to use the front camera.

Having said that, I may get them to throw one of those in as they've indicated they might do something for me.  I'll give it a try.

But they've told me that the front and rear cameras have different connectors, so I don't think that means you can put one where the other goes.  However, the Amazon listing for that extension says "PORMIDO 2 Meters Extension Cable for PR998 D50 Front Camera Room Camera".  So it works for those two cameras if you order the D50 system, which is the same as the PR998 but has an added camera to watch the people in the vehicle.  So at least those two cameras have the same plug.  

As for "well recognized", I suspect that was literally lost in translation.  I think the "do not flip over" bit refers to ensuring the front camera's connection is on the left side of the camera.  Otherwise the image will be upside down, which might cause some "recognition" problems in the software.

And speaking of upside down, there's a note somewhere about installing the rear camera upside down, and if you do want to do that get their firmware for that.  So I've asked and they'll send me that firmware once I order.  Thought it might be helpful, but don't know that I'll need to mount the rear camera that way.  Nor do I know if it works on the front camera, but I've asked.

[Gary Lewis]

I've had several exchanges with Pormido today, and it turns out they don't have a longer extension cable than the 2 meter one.  So, I think I'm ready to order tomorrow the following things:

Pormido 12” Mirror Dash Cam with Detached Front Camera

Pormido Hardwire Kit for PR996,PR998: Allows the system to be powered all the time but shuts off power if it goes below a certain voltage.  That way it can record if the truck is hit while parked.

Pormido GPS Antenna for PORMIDO Mirror Dash Cam PR996 PR998: Records GPS coordinates on the memory card.

Pormido 2 Meters Extension Cable for PR998: I can cut into this and extend it w/o cutting the mirror or camera's harness.

[Rusty_S85]

Same problem I had when I was throwing around the idea of a dash cam for my truck to give me some safety in case of an accident to clear me of wrong doing.  Everything I was finding was just not what I was wanting.  Ideally I wanted a self contained unit that had a built in battery vs a hardwired unit.  This would allow me to switch from vehicle to vehicle.  Every company I talked with gave me the same old tired line that it wouldnt turn on without manual input ignoring the fact that they could easily have a G sensor in them to switch them on automatically when movement is detected and then have them time out after a set amount of time.

The ones I found that was hardwired either had a cigarette lighter plug for power which my truck has no cigarette lighter and I have no plan to add one either.  Then the others that can be hard wired in requires I try to remove the top garnish molding without damage to them which Ive never been able to remove one from our trucks before and hope that if I did get it removed that when reattaching doesnt pinch the wires.  Then it kills the ability to transfer the unit between my multiple vehicles.

From what I am seeing it sounds like the ones you are looking at with the cameras built into the mirror is intended more for a dash cam application vs providing you a forward look for how close you are to something.

[BigBrother-84]

Gary Lewis wrote

Pormido 2 Meters Extension Cable: I can cut into this and extend it w/o cutting the mirror or camera's harness.

Good idea!

[Gary Lewis]

Rusty - Actually, this system doesn't have the camera built into the mirror.  That's one of several reasons I've gone with it as the detached "front" camera can be remoted to the front bumper.  So I'll have a camera on both bumpers.

But you are right that it wouldn't be an easy system to move from vehicle to vehicle.  I'm going to permanently install it in Big Blue with the wiring kit, which does do what you want - records any time the G sensor detects movement.  But it does draw on the vehicle's battery, although the wiring kit has a limit switch in it that turns the power off if the battery voltage gets down to a certain point.

Jeff - You are the one that found the extension cable, so many thanks to you.  Unfortunately that's the only one they have, do I'll just cut into it in order to extend the wiring to the front bumper.

And, all of the stuff is now on order.  It is said to be arriving Tuesday, and Santa appears to be amenable to playing with it then and there, so I can measure the current to the cameras and get another rear camera on order if it appears that the current is roughly the same.

Also, Pormido supplied me with a link to download two things once I gave them my order #:

Mapping Software: I ordered the GPS antenna so when on the system will record where the truck goes.  Apparently viewing what is recorded isn't easily done with readily available applications so they have their own.  I've downloaded and installed the Windows version so am ready.

New Firmware: They have new firmware that allows you to turn at least the rear camera upside down.  Apparently that gives you another switch to flip in the menu.  But for some reason they don't load it in the systems, and only provide it when you ask.  So I've downloaded it awa the instructions for loading it - which, oddly enough, are in a spreadsheet.

[Gary Lewis]

Been doing a lot of reading of reviews and watching of videos.  One thing I noticed is that the display has the ability to be scrolled up or down by running your finger up or down on it.  And that got me to thinking about how they do that.

The first thought was that the cameras are motorized, but there's only 3 wires to them - power, ground, and video out.  So there's no way to control them.

But then I realized that the cameras are set up for an aspect ratio of 16:9.  But the mirror is basically 16:4.  So there's plenty of room to scroll up or down electronically.

Which brings me back to - I can't believe that you can't successfully use a rear camera in the front.  And that's in spite of the front camera having a 170 degree view and the rear having only a 150 degree view.

We shall see.

[Rusty_S85]

Of course, I mean the screen that you see is built into the mirror.  With dash cams the camera and the monitor that you can see on the inside of the vehicle is all contained with in one unit.  The divorced camera is a great idea allowing it to be mounted more forward on the truck for your application.

I dont know how good it would be that far forward as a dash cam which would really depend on the field of view.  For myself it is more for peace of mind in the chance I get hit.  I just picked a vehicle up from the paint and body shop that the boss`s detailer he hired to come to the shop backed up into the bed of the car and caved it in.  If it wasnt for the camera at work I would have never known who did it and would be out of pocket on repairs.  Given a dash cam wouldnt have helped me in this instance but it would with the insane people out on the road that cuts you off and slams on their brakes at the last minute for who knows what reason.

But I look forward to seeing how you do your setup though.  I may still get something down the road, after all I am seriously thinking about pulling all my CB stuff out of my truck mainly cause when I get the truck painted I wont want the antenna stuck on the roof like I have now.

[Gary Lewis]

The Pormido kit came in today.  I'm going to document what I do on it in this thread.

[Gary Lewis]

Well, I fired up the mirror and the cameras today, and I'm really pleased.  The images are crisp and the lighting excellent.  

However, it doesn't look like I'll be able to use a 2nd rear camera in the front.  The front camera has 4 wires to it, one of which is power and it pulls ~250 ma through that wire.  The rear camera has 5 wires to it, and two of those appear to be power.  The red one has 275 ma in it, but the black one has 140 ma in it.  All up the front camera is pulling 415 ma, and I'm sure that's why they say it won't work.

So, I'm back to using the front camera and mounting it in a box with a clear lid, and I'll show you options on where I might mount it in a bit.

But first let's talk about mounting the mirror itself.  Here it is mounted to the existing mirror using the provided rubber straps.  Not bad, huh?



But, if you look at it from the side it screams GHETTO!



Just so happens that I have an old Bullnose mirror that was badly cracked.  So I broke the glass out and removed the mount.    And as the picture shows, I plan to drill and tap that piece of pot metal on the left that the mirror mounted to.




And here's a shot of the back of the Pormido mirror.  You can see the rubber "ears" that stick up, and I've drawn in an aluminum plate that will be 5 1/2" long and 2 1/2" wide.  That will be a push fit between the ears and then it'll be retained by the straps.  And in the middle of it there will be a counter-sunk 1/4-20 screw coming through and into that mount shown above.




Ok, so how to mount the mirror is pretty well figured out, but what about mounting the camera?  The piece of wood in the two pics below is the same size as one of the boxes I'm considering.  On the left is Plan A, which kinda hides the camera a bit.  But Plan B, on the right, may provide a better view as the "thimble" for the winch would obscure things directly in front and below more in Plan A than in B.

Thoughts?

[BigBrother-84]

Wow!

I just cannot figure out how Santa accepted to let you play with your toys BEFORE Christmas.


Too big for a less vulnerable and more discreet placement?  And probably a "better" upper view?

[Gary Lewis]

I'm going to respond in the other thread to keep everything together.  But what you did is cool!

As for the other thread, I've invited the tech at the manufacturer, Pormido, to view the thread.  So I wanted something that didn't have all of the to & fro of finding the system, and just stuck to the installation of their system.  They'd asked for a review, so in a way I'm writing one.