Camera System For Big Blue

[Nothing Special]

A lot of the vehicles I see in YouTube videos have a large collection of devices mounted to the dash: tablets, phones, etc.  There are a number of mounts available to do that, some mounting a single device, others having a rail where you can mount several devices.  That way you can be running nav (maybe even a couple of nav systems at once), a bluetooth camera or two (or three) and your music all at the same time.  Not something I've ever been interested in so I haven't paid attention to brands or anything, but if you are willing to move away from the display being in the mirror head you have a lot of options.  (It does give the appearance of being in a police cruiser...)

[Gary Lewis]

Yes, I've seen those as well.  And that's the look I'm trying to stay away from.

I want it to look like it came from the factory that way.  Integrated.  Like the headliner/Highliner, the F600 radio bezel and switches, etc.  So to me the mirror display is the perfect solution.  I hope they come through with it.

[kramttocs]

I know this isn't what you are looking for but just mentioning it since related. Atoto, the brand of the head unit and backup camera I have, offers a panoramic view setup using AC-SC3601. Never tried it as the simple backup camera is enough for me and doesn't seem to be focused enough for your needs but it's something.

[Gary Lewis]

Scott - That's a really interesting system:

 Traditional solutions for having a surround view parking system is that car owners have to install 4 cameras to different sides of the vehicle and it's too difficult and expensive for installation. ATOTO AC-SC3601 uses only one camera and it means you can install it like installing a common backup camera. You can watch the video to learn more: https://youtu.be/gUSwyUxLRI8

There is a operation system running on the inner chip hardware for continuously processing the images (receiving, storing, calculating,stitching) sent from camera,so it can help rebuild a dynamic,simulative but almost same-size ratio surroundings view (where the barriers, other vehicles, or your vehicle is). So it can compete a real 360-degree Bird's-eye view parking system, however with only single camera and a fraction amount of cost;

ATOTO AC-SC3601 is quite helpful for driver to park large vehicles (full size sedan/SUV,van, light trucks) in a narrow or small space. This product supports reversing into parking space, including parallel, perpendicular parking, and angled parking, but it DOES NOT work for forward parking; ※[On selected S8 models, the feature has been integrated into the Android car stereo system, please choose AC-HD03 camera instead ]

It can work with all the indash car monitor, rearview monitor, or on-dash monitor, as long as they have standard RCA type video input that is specified as reversed camera input. The difference in installation is, its control unit requires power supply, which is the same as powering an car stereo. You can connect the power wires ( +12v battery,+12v accessory, & ground) of ATOTO AC-SC3601 to car fuse box, or these wires that go to your car stereo as alternative if you can't find the car fuse box;

Notifications: 1. Since the ATOTO AC-SC3601 parking system uses only one camera for surrounding view, the rebuilt surrounding view is not real image of the surroundings (but it is live/dynamic image). There is another area in the reversing display to show the real image of the rear surroundings (only rear view);2.The surrounding view functin DOES NOT work on a vehicle that has trailer, or a vehicle that has protrusion part (like tow hook) in the back;

How it creates a birds-eye view from one camera befuddles me.  That's a really slick trick.  Janey's car does the birds-eye view using 4 cameras and it is a really useful function.  However, the text I emboldened says it isn't going to work for Big Blue.  Man, that would be cool to have a birds-eye view!

[Bruce moose4x4]

Gary, saw this on Springfield Missouri Facebook Marketplace.
https://www.facebook.com/marketplace/item/408867057454164/
Not sure if it will work or not. I know nothing about cameras and such.
Thought it would look stock on the front grill.

[Gary Lewis]

That’s cool!  It would look stock.

My 2015 has one of those. I wonder if it would work with the Pormido system.

[Gary Lewis]

Time for an update on this saga.

The vendor, Pormido, is coming out with a 4K mirror/camera combo on the 20th and I could get one for testing.  However it will still only have one weatherproof camera, which is for the rear, and a separate camera for the front that is not weatherproof and is to go on the inside of the windshield.

They've offered me one for testing, but I've declined and will await someone coming out with a unit with two weatherproof cameras.  The reason is that I've realized that my plan to buy a second weatherproof camera, install it on the front bumper, and use a toggle switch to pick which one was fed to the mirror was going to be fiddly to use.  That's because the rear camera is usually reversed and you don't want the front camera to be reversed.  So I'd have to go into the menu on the mirror and turn reversing off each time I wanted to use the front camera, or remember that everything would be backwards.  And that isn't something I want to do.

So, if anyone spots a nice mirror with two weatherproof cameras, please let me know.

[BigBrother-84]

This is the mirror/camera I installed on Big Brother.
Fortunately, the wire length was just enough for this "long" Crew Cab run.
Very usefull for my needs, but the image quality is not as clear as my other "modern" vehicles, when comparing (2018 Chevy Volt and 2019 GMC Terrain).  Not sure if it depends of my mirror/monitor or camera choices.
I'll come back with more precise info (number of possible cameras, mirror dimensions, camera image actual size, etc):

[Gary Lewis]

Jeff - Thanks.  Turns out that your system isn't the latest tech, which is probably why you said "the image quality is not as clear as my other "modern" vehicles".  The one I'd been looking at is a 12" unit and has 2.5K resolution, and the same company is coming out with a 4K unit in two weeks.  And as I understand it, those specs mean that the new one will have 4000 pixels across it, the current one has 2500 pixels side/side, and yours has 1280 pixels.  And my guess is that your newer vehicles have the higher resolution as well.

However, yours has the 3 camera inputs using simple RCA jacks, and that makes it much easier to use than some of the more recent ones which have proprietary connectors on them, forcing you to use their cameras.  But, the instructions on yours don't say how to wire the camera(s), other than to plug their outputs into the yellow RCA connectors.  So you still have to supply them with power, which isn't shown.  Right?

Also, where did you get yours?  I found yours at iBeam, and they want $582 for it, although Best Buy has it for $409.  But the later ones are more like $260.

So I'm really confused and conflicted.  I want to install one, but it has to have two weatherproof cameras.  However, I'd really like to have the higher resolution of the later systems.

Today I sent Wolfbox an email telling them what I'm looking for.  We'll see what they say - if anything.

[grumpin]

Gary, I noticed this truck has a front and rear camera by Kenwood. Thought I’d post it up to see if it is something you could use.

https://klamath.craigslist.org/cto/d/merrill-2002-ford-f350-crew-cab-4x4/7416997911.html

[grumpin]

Thought I’d better get the pictures. I see this one isn’t a mirror, but they may have one.

[Gary Lewis]

Thanks, Dane.  I checked the Kenwood site and didn't find any mirrors.  But I sent them a query anyway.  I've really liked the Kenwood products I've been around in the past and would love to get a name-brand product like theirs for this.  I just can't find it on their site.

And speaking of queries, I sent another one to Wolfbox.  And again I drew Mia as the tech.  In part here's the exchange so far:

Gary: I need two weatherproof cameras, one on the front bumper and one on the rear.

As for switching, I would want it to go to the rear camera when in reverse, meaning the backup lights are on. And to switch to the front, that could be via another trigger lead I would put a switch on, or via your menu if it was easy to do.

Mia: If so, then you need to unplug and plug in another camera every time you want to switch cameras.

Because the screen of the unit can only display two images of a front camera and a rear camera.

Gary: Which of your units is that?  I’ll take a look at it.

Mia: I am referring if you want to achieve this operation, you need to purchase an additional rear camera + cable.

Gary: Thanks, but I'm confused.  Which unit is it that you are recommending?  Which rear camera should I purchase separately?

I don't have a lot of confidence that we are getting anywhere.  What am I missing?  

[BigBrother-84]

Gary, not forgetting you!


Last weekend, had to prepare for that storm (complete tractor prep, chains, blower, etc).

I'll come back with more info about my mirror/cam setup.

For now, I verified the monitor size and can confirm that the cam image is 7" wide, mirror is about 9 1/2" in its wider.

[Gary Lewis]

Jeff - Thanks.

I'm NOT finding much out there that fits my needs.  And your system would, although I was hoping for a wider display and higher resolution.  But something is far better than nothing, which is what I have.  So I do have a few questions for you:

Resolution: You said "the image quality is not as clear as my other "modern" vehicles", but is it clear enough?

Wiring: Did you have to run power to the camera in addition to the video wire?  This isn't mentioned in the owner's manual, and I've found two different versions of the manual online.

Buying: Where did you get it and at what price?  I'm finding a wide range of prices and a lot of "no longer available".

Camera: What camera did you get?  It doesn't appear to come with cameras - or am I wrong on that?

Recommendation: Would you recommend this unit and camera?  Or should I keep looking?

[BigBrother-84]

OK, referring to manuals that came with the stock, some pictures I took during installation and bit of memory, here is this  info:

Mirror/monitor and cameras are sold separately.  My devices:
- Mirror/monitor = TE-RM7 (1280x480)
- License plate camera = TE-BPTC (720x480)

Mirror-monitor:
- Needs 12V (+) power and ground (-)
- Linked to each camera via RCA yellow jack
- Linked to each camera trigger (in my case, trigger = reverse switch)

Camera:
- Needs 12V (+) power (in my case, reverse lights wire)
- Needs ground (-)
- Linked to mirror/monitor via RCA yellow jack

So, in my case, when transmission is put in reverse, the mirror/monitor turns "on" (via the reverse switch trigger) and my reverse cam turns "on" too (via the reverse lights (+) wire).

I suppose that, if you install a front camera, you should be able to use the same 12V positive trigger to turn "on" the camera and the mirror/monitor at same time.

See picture of my email to support guy.  Answer is short, he suggests to use same model of camera for front use.  Not sure...  What about the "mirrored" image behaviour?  If I had a second cam, I would try and test.  They sale other cameras models:
https://ibeamusa.com/products?category=I-CAMERA

Camera wiring:


Mirror/monitor wiring:


Tech email:

[BigBrother-84]

To complete:

I bought these from NAPA.

I am plenty satisfied, ALTHOUGH I had some issue with the windshield adaptor.  The mirror comes with a "Universal" shape that doesn't fit Ford.  I had to buy an adapter (TE-MM09), which is not exactly the shape of the anchor that came with my new windsheild:
https://ibeamusa.com/product/TE-MM09

My goal was to NOT have a dash monitor, wanted to keep Big Brother as original as possible.  Kept my original radio too, and had it "modernized" to enable bluetooth and hands free phone.  This "mirror/monitor" was perfect for my purposes.

Maybe there is better products out there...  Can't say.

[Gary Lewis]

Jeff - Thanks a bunch!

I’m out and about, and will report on what I’ve found when I get home. And I’m emailing with various companies as well, and will hopefully have something to report from them by then.

[Gary Lewis]

Ok, home and time for an update.

Crutchfield: Early this morning I sent Nate @ Crutchfield another message, reminding him what I'm trying to do and explaining that his recommended pick didn't really fit the bill, but is no longer available.  To which he responded "Let me take a look around and I will respond back with an recommendation."

Wolfbox: Mia said "I recommend you to buy this G840S ASIN: B0811Q28N6  Rear camera ASIN: B09H5KBK9X This separate rear camera does not have a cable. If you buy it, we will send you a cable for free."  I've thanked her, but from what I can tell I'll have to install a switch to select which camera to use.  But, since the rear camera is normally reversed I'd have to also go into the menu and change that setting each time I wanted to see forward, and that's too fiddly.

Best Buy: Mike, one of the salesmen, talked to me extensively about this.  We went through all of the offerings they have and didn't find anything that would work.  But, I noticed that they sell iBeam, which is what you have, Jeff.  I got the model # of your mirror and he looked it up.  They can get it, but they've never carried it in the store and he knows nothing about it.

So he took me back to the installer's bay and we talked to Travis, their head installer.  He didn't know of anything like what I'm looking for, and had never seen your iBeam.  But he looked its specs over closely and said it looks like it is several iterations old given the 1280 pixels horizontally.  However, he then realized that it doesn't come with a camera, and the recommended camera is only 720p, as you found, and is $100. So two of those and the unit itself, which goes for $410 from them, is pushing $700 with tax.

We then talked about the 12"/4000 pixel Pormido that I've been looking at, the new one with a waterproof rear camera and a detached "front" camera that isn't waterproof, and their recommendation was to go with it and figure out how to waterproof the front camera.  Especially since it lists at $200 and comes with both cameras.

Pormido: So I emailed Melissa and told her that I've re-re-re-considered and am seriously considering their new 4K unit.  And, I asked for drawing, pictures, and/or dimensions for their "front" camera.

And now for some thinking of mine.  Jeff, your statement about the display not being all that crisp worries me.  So I did some research and playing with the dimensions and specs and came to the realization that:

720P: These cameras have 1,280×720 pixels, so on a 7.3" screen like the iBeam has there would be 175 pixels per inch.

2.5K: This is what the current Pormido system has, and there are 2,560×1,440 pixels.  So on their 12" screen there would be 213 pixels per inch.

4K: The new Pormido system is to have this rating, which has 3,840×2,160 pixels.  And it also has a 12" screen so it'll have 320 pixels/inch.

So basically the 4K screen will have almost twice as many pixels per inch as yours and be 63% wider.  I'm thinking that would probably be enough to make it "crisp", and that plus the price difference makes it worth figuring out how to waterproof the front camera.

And speaking of the cameras, here's a screenshot of the front camera on the left and the rear camera on the right.

[BigBrother-84]

Pormido sounds good. Can't it accept any camera? (for iBeam, I think understand that any RCA cam could be hooked).
Would be nice if you could buy Pormido's monitor and any cams of your choice.  So, any super-heavy-duty-external-warerproof front cam could do the job.
Or maybe a second Pormido´s rear cam facing front?

[Gary Lewis]

That's a major difference between your system and everything else now on the market.  Yours has RCA connectors and should be able to take any camera with those connectors.  But now everything has proprietary connectors, usually little 4 or 5-pin jobs that are different from one camera to the next.

For instance, on the Pormido that has both a front (meant for inside use) and rear (waterproofed) camera has two different connectors for the two different cameras, preventing you from swapping them.  And when I asked if I could buy a 2nd rear camera and replace its connector with the connector from the front camera I was told that it would probably fry the electronics in the display.

I've had a hard time believing that, but I asked more than once and got that answer both times.  And having thought about it, I wondered if there are LEDs in the rearview camera.  But looking at the picture of it above I don't think so.  Given that, I'm still wondering why I can't just use two rear cameras.  It would sure make it easier.  But I'm afraid of burning out the unit.