Camera System For Big Blue

[Gary Lewis]

(If there's a thread this should be part of please let me know.  I thought there was but can't find it.)

As some of you know, I've come to the realization that I need a "camera system" for Big Blue.  And by "system" I mean both a rear view as well as a front view camera.  The rear is obvious, but the front requirement came up on the trip to Ouray as we crested many a ridge where we could NOT see where the trail went ahead of us.

So I'm doing my due diligence and want your thoughts as well.

Today I called Crutchfield and told them I want a rear view mirror with at least two inputs.  Nate, the advisor, suggested the Voxx RVM740SM, which has a dedicated backup camera input as well as a pair of other inputs.  So I've read up on it, including the Quick Start manual, but have gone back to Crutchfield with several more questions.

The system has a lot more bells and whistles than I need, including the ability to bluetooth to a phone for hands free, and to connect to the radio via FM so it can use the vehicle's speakers.  In fact, it can have a GPS antenna and it has some form of navigation in it.  But it runs Android and I have an iPhone so I'm not sure how they'd interface.

But the main thing I'm interested in is its ability to show the feed from several cameras.  According to the manual it can use the backup light circuit to show the rear view, and can use the turn signal output to bring up the side views if you had cameras mounted on the mirrors.  So I was thinking I could use something like the hazards to bring on the front camera and not have to add a switch.

Anyway, what are your thoughts?  Do you have other suggestions?

[reamer]

so you need individual cameras for any angle you need? do they come with it?

[Gary Lewis]

Yes, you need a camera for each view.  But I don't know if it comes with any of them.  I asked the Crutchfield tech that last night and he's not answered yet.  Maybe today was his day off.

It looks to me like it comes with one harness to connect to a rear camera as well as the backup light circuit.  And another harness to connect to side/mirror cameras as well as the turn signal circuits.  But I think all I want are two exterior cameras, one for the rear and one for the front.  So I'm happy to have the backup camera come on in Reverse, but am wondering about the front camera.  As said, maybe the hazards?

[ckuske]

Wow, I had no idea such a thing existed.  Cool!

As much as I want to keep everything in the truck "1984", this is pretty tempting.  I get spoiled by my Accord's rear camera these days, and the Bluetooth would be nice as well for phone calls.

[Gary Lewis]

The features on that system are amazing, but there are some gotcha's.  For instance, it looks like since the mirror doesn't have any speakers, when you use the hands-free to call you have to have the FM on your car radio set to the same frequency the mirror is broadcasting on to hear the party to whom you are speaking.

I may have that wrong, but that's the way I read the manual.  

[ckuske]

Yeah, I read the same.

Having a preset on my factory radio for this would be ironic in the best manner possible.

[Gary Lewis]

Yes, that would be ironic.  Bring it into the 21st century via FM.  

[Gary Lewis]

Time for an update.  This is a REALLY frustrating quest as there's no where near enough info on what is available.  And the vendors aren't helping either:

The manufacturer of the Voxx RVM740SM unit hasn't returned my email in two business days

Nate from Crutchfield hasn't returned my email in three business days

But, I think I've found something, and that is an Intelligent Car Video Switcher 3-way Input 1-way Output for the Car Camera.  It is only $26 and would allow me to have up to three cameras connected to it and then it would connect to the mirror.

So now I just need to find a nice mirror that has a reasonable cost, attaches to the mirror bracket on the windshield, and is a large as possible, and has an RCA connector for the camera.  And one I'm looking at is the Wolfbox 12", but I haven't yet figured out if it has RCA connectors or if it attaches to the windshield and not the existing mirror.  Sure would be nice if they provided copies of the owner's/installation manuals to prospective customers.  

[Gary Lewis]

Well, hold on a minute, the consultant from Wolfbox just got back with me and said they have a new mirror coming out that has three cameras: a rear camera that can be mounted on the rear bumper, and two in-vehicle cameras, one of which is the front view and the other is the "room view" showing the inside of the vehicle.  And she sent me the prelim owner's manual.  

I've gone back to her asking a slew of questions, but two are key:

If the "front view" camera isn't weatherproof can I buy a 2nd rear camera?  (If so then I'd put it on the bumper or grille to see the bumper and the trail directly ahead.  It would take the place of the "room view" camera.)

The buttons show one that is said to be the "Image Switch", as shown below.  Does that mean I can rotate through front, in-car, and rear cameras to view on the mirror?  (Man, that would be slick as it would mean I won't have to have the outboard switch and can just touch the button on the mirror to bring up whatever view I want.)

And yes, it has a GPS receiver and not only shows speed and direction, but also records the lat and long so you can tell exactly where you've gone.

We may have a winner!  

[jdavidsmi]

It looks to like this one clips over your existing mirror. But I really like the features.

[Gary Lewis]

Yes, it does clip over the old mirror, and I really don't like that.  But, if I can get the other bits worked out then I think I could make a plate that would replace the old mirror and have the new one attach to that.

Having said that, I'm not getting the "other bits" worked out quite yet.  After having several exchanges with Mia at Wolfbox I've found that the "front" camera isn't weatherproof so shouldn't be put on the front bumper.  And when I asked about replacing it with a rear camera I learned that the cameras each have their own connectors, so you cannot swap a rear camera in place of the in-car or front camera.

So I asked about either cutting their connectors off of a 2nd rear camera as well as their 3 in 1 cable and grafting my own on.  Or having their engineers come up with something.  She said she'd submit my request to the technical department and let me know "in time" if there is any news.

As for availability, she said "next week".  And for price she said "We can give you discounts based on coupons. That is (269.99-30 coupon)*60%=143.99  (I hope you can write us a good review, thank you very much.)"

And on the Image Switch she said "The switch button can be switched to the front camera, the rear camera and the car camera, as well as the split-screen mode where 3 cameras are displayed at the same time."

So while everything hasn't come together, I'm thinking it might.  I doubt their technical department is going to come up with a solution, but I think I could graft connectors on and use a 2nd rear camera on the front in place of the in-car camera.  I suspect they have power, ground, and video in the connector, so would put the video and ground through RCA connectors and power through a separate 3.5mm audio connector.

But I'll wait and see what they say.

[Gary Lewis]

Update time.  I'm not getting good answers from Mia, but just sent her this email:

Mia - A forward-facing camera in the cab will not work for me.  I've included a picture to help you understand the issue.  In the picture the string is attached at the top of the windshield and touches the front edge of the hood and goes on to the floor 11' ahead of the front bumper of the truck.  And it is a full 18" above the thimble of the winch, which is what will hit things first.  So I have to have a weatherproof camera on the front bumper so I can see ahead of me on trails and what I'm about to hit when parking.

Given that, let me ask again:

Can I buy a second rear view camera and its cable with the G880?

If so, at what price?

Is there any reason I cannot replace the connector on the camera as well as the 3 in 1 cable and use that camera in place of the in-car camera or the forward camera?  (I've wired microprocessors and all sorts of video equipment and would use an RCA connector for the video and a 3.5mm connector for the power, which I assume is in your cable.)

If we can get positive answers to those questions then I want to purchase the G880 from you at the price you offered of (269.99-30coupon)*60%=143.99.  And, I realize I won't have a warranty on the items I've modified.


Thanks,
Gary

Here's the pic.  And you can easily see why when we topped a ridge on the Jeep trails that we couldn't tell where the trail went ahead of us.  The truck was usually still pointed up at a severe angle so we weren't looking down at all but almost horizontally.  And by the time the truck angled down enough to see what was ahead of us it was too late.  But our buddy, Mike, could easily see what was ahead of him since he had a camera on the front bumper.

[Gary Lewis]

The response from Mia of Wolfbox was less than helpful.  I don't think they want to bother with me.

But I've discovered that what appears to be the same mirror/camera system is also sold by PORMIDO and is called their Triple Mirror Dash Cam and is sold by Amazon.

But Pormido has an accessories tab and they sell a New Backup Camera for D50 PR998.  And the PR998 appears to be their 12” Mirror Dash Cam with Detached Front Camera.  And that unit has two camera inputs - the rear view camera that is weatherproof, and the front view camera that isn't.  So if I could use that extra backup camera.  But, there's a note on its page that says "MOST IMPORTANT-Please make sure to order this rear camera correctly, there're different versions of connector, please contact with our customer support if you are not sure which version to match."

And yet I can't find a way to contact their customer support.  

[Gary Lewis]

In reading the Q&A re the PR998 I found references to [e-mail] and [e-mail], so I emailed them with this:

I have a pickup on which I want to install a review view mirror and both a front and rear view camera.  But both cameras need to be outside, so need to be weatherproof.

The PORMIDO 12” Mirror Dash Cam with Detached Front Camera appears to be what I'm looking for with the exception that the front camera isn't weatherproof.  But you sell the PORMIDO New Backup Camera for D50 PR998 with Rear Cam Cable Plug into 2 in 1 Cameras Connect Cable for the PR998, which I think is the 12" Mirror Dash Cam with Detached Front Camera.  Right?

However, the new backup camera has a note on it which says "MOST IMPORTANT-Please make sure to order this rear camera correctly, there're different versions of connector, please contact with our customer support if you are not sure which version to match."  So I'm asking - can this camera be plugged into the front view connection on the PR998?

If not, do you have a weatherproof camera that can be plugged into the front view connection of the PR998?


Thanks,
Gary

We shall see.

[grumpin]

I dislike how “customer service” can be hard to get ahold of.

Sounds like the first company doesn’t know how to help you, so they try to avoid you.

Sorry if I’m pessimistic, but I don’t understand not giving a straight answer, i.e. we can’t do that.

[Gary Lewis]

Yes, "customer disservice" seems to be a better moniker.

Having said that, Wolfbox customer service has good reviews online.  But that is apparently if you ask them questions for which there are easy answers.  However, ask them a question for which they have no script, like "Can I get an extra rear-view camera and graft it into the in-vehicle camera's connector", they can't answer.  We will see if Pormido can/will answer that question as they appear to sell the same kit.

So here's where I am.  I like the PORMIDO 12” Mirror Dash Cam with Detached Front Camera as it is 12" wide, has inputs for the weatherproof rear camera and a windshield-mounted front camera, and a switch on it to toggle between the two inputs.  And they sell a PORMIDO New Backup Camera for D50 PR998 with Rear Cam Cable Plug into 2 in 1 Cameras Connect Cable.  So if they don't get back with me on my email in a week or so I think I'll order the mirror and extra camera and use jumpers to connect the camera to the mirror to prove it'll work.

When that works, like I'm sure it will, I'll cut the connectors off the rear-camera's cable and graft the front camera's connector on to it.  That will let me plug the 2nd camera into the front input and I'll have everything I'm looking for - weatherproof cameras on the front and the back and an easy way to toggle between them.

And by adding the PORMIDO GPS Antenna for PORMIDO Mirror Dash Cam PR996 PR998 it'll record the GPS locations as I travel.  Plus I'll need the PORMIDO Hardwire Kit for PR996,PR998,D50 Mirror Dash Cam, Low Voltage Cut-Off for Vehicle Battery Protection to connect the unit to power, which will ensure that it won't run the battery down.  That way I'll have collision detection and recording while the truck is parked.

[Gary Lewis]

Final answer from Wolfbox:

Dear Gary,
A machine can only match one rear camera.
The machine system can only detect one rear camera.

Therefore, the rear camera cannot be used instead of the front camera.

Best regards
Mia

I think she doesn't understand that there's nothing to "detect".  Either a camera is there and is feeding a video signal or isn't.  But I can't educate her, so am going to tell her thanks and drop it with Wolfbox.

However, at least she responded.  So far Pormido hasn't even responded.  

[Gary Lewis]

Been emailing with Pormido. First message apologized for the slow reply - they are in the middle of a national holiday. But the second got down to business:

“ Hey Gary,
As mentioned, you cannot 'cut the connector for the front camera off and graft it onto the harness for the extra rear camera', in this way, the system cannot work properly, even it works for a while, it cannot last for long time.
We understand this demand from other customers, so we are now working on to exchange the front camera with waterproof camera, but have not finished it yet, because we need to various tests before mass production.

If this is not urgent, we can keep you informed once the new item is available(around end of 2021), new product can be free for initial reviewers, kindly let me know, thank you.”

My response was that I can wait a bit and to please count me in.

[Nothing Special]

This type of thing is outside of my wheelhouse so I haven't checked in on the thread until now.  But one concern I'd have about putting a rear view camera in front is that usually rear view cameras have the image reversed.  That makes it much more intuitive because it's as if you were looking in a mirror.

But turn that camera around and point it forward and it would be a lot less intuitive!

I know you're currently planning to wait a bit to get a system with weather resistant front and rear cameras.
 But if you do go the route of getting two rear view cameras, make sure you can select if the image is reversed or not.

[Gary Lewis]

Thanks, Bob.  I thought about that and then found this line in the Pormido description of the mirror: "Both front & rearview image can be switched from straight to mirroring, so you can read the plates easily".  And if they are truly "working on to exchange the front camera with waterproof camera" then I hope they'll ensure that option is still available.

So I'm hoping to be an early adopter/beta tester on the new mirror.  I think it'll be everything I need.

And, speaking of that, I was in a new Merc C300 recently and it has what looks like an iPad attached to the dash and the rearview camera displays there.  Looking at the display, it isn't as wide as the Pormido 12" mirror, and while it is higher I think it is the width that is needed.  I really don't need a good view of the sky, but I do need a good view of the things to the left and right.  I have high hopes for this mirror.