Big Blue's Transformation

[Nothing Special]

Gary Lewis wrote

....  So the question to y'all is whether to:

Order the braided hose to use the Brake Load Sensor Proportioning valve

Use the rubber hose and the BLSP valve

Delete the BLSP valve and use the braided hose, that will connect nicely, I think, to it.

....

I think I'd delete the load sensing proportioning valve.  It seems like I hear that it doesn't work well for people any more.  Knowing what it does (dial in or out more braking depending on how much the truck is squatting under a load) and realizing that the amount of squat for a load won't be the same with a modified suspension it makes sense that it wouldn't work like it did when new.

That said I think I'd probably put an adjustable proportioning valve on becvause otherwise you are likely to lock the rear tires too easily.  So dial them back manually for normal driving.  Then you can dial them up when loaded if you want to (and if you remember).

And THAT said, this is probably less in line with your goal of, in the end, having a truck your non-mechanically-inclined kids can easily use.  So maybe you should put more effort into getting the load-sensing valve working.  (But if it were me I wouldn't).  For what it's worth (not much right here...) a few years later Ford went to rear wheel ABS to manage this.  That works really slick (I had it on my '95 and again now on my '97).


As to the braided hose or not, if you don't use the BLSP it's a non-issue.  If you do, I'd use the hose i had that worked.  I don't think there's enough benefit to braided hose to worry about it, and almost no one will ever see it to notice it's different.  On the other hand, you'll know it's different.  Is it worth the cost and wait for you to know it's the same?  It wouldn't be for me, but I'm not you (and that's OK )

[salans7]

I would verify that the load sensing valve is even working, although how to do that is beyond me. Mine was rusted solid and wouldn't move even under a hydraulic press, so I sent it to the scrapper and will run an adjustable unit as mentioned, if it's even necessary. I don't recall seeing them on anything older than 85.

[Gary Lewis]

Bob - I'm planning to modify the rear suspension by removing leafs and adding air bags.  So it wouldn't seem like the valve could know what the load is since I'm going to level it, regardless of the load.  Given that, I'm thinking it has to go, which means we agree.

But, I think I'll wait and see how the brake system works to decide if I need an adjustable proportioning valve.  And, I'll keep the BLSPV and linkage so I could put it back if I decided I needed to do so.

As for the hose, it is the braided hose that will work w/o the valve.  At least I think it will as it looks like the brake line at the top of the valve will screw into the end of the line.

And, from my limited reading my understanding is that braided lines don't expand like the others do, so the pedal is firmer.  Is that not true?

[Gary Lewis]

Shaun - I suspect mine will move as the suspension moves and it is hooked to it.  But I really don't think it is working given the way the braking is.  As said, that trailer just shoved the truck and some tires were sliding.  But there was nothing I could do to make it stop faster, and it didn't sound like all 4 tires were sliding.  In fact, the rear end didn't even offer to come around.

So that tells me the rear brakes aren't working properly, but the shoes are relatively new and there's no leakage.  And the master cylinder is fairly new - although it was put on in Florida.  

Anyway, I don't know how to test it, but if I remove it I won't tear it or any of its attachments up so it can all be put back should I need to do so.

[salans7]

Best of luck on the removal, something stripped out on mine when I removed it, either the nut holding the assembly to the bracket, or the stud with the lever. I can't quite remember.

[ArdWrknTrk]

Gary Lewis wrote

...., from my limited reading my understanding is that braided lines don't expand like the others do, so the pedal is firmer.  Is that not true?

Abslutely NOT true.
The braid is just a straw basket or a Chinese finger trap.  Of course it expands.


There are a few types of braided line available.
Usually for brakes it's a PTFE core with stainless overbraid.(more common now is aramid braid, like Kevlar)

What Teflon doesn't do is degrade, get soft and crack like rubber lines do.
It is one of the most inert structural materials known last century.

Stainless braid was used -dating back to WWII- because it was abrasion resistant, cut resistant, heat reflective, flexible and had a lot more tensile strength than the cotton reinforced rubber line it was protecting.

Now, it's mostly used as a fashion statement.

[Gary Lewis]

I hope it comes off w/o breaking something.  

Just checked and the part # is E5TZ 2B547-C.  I can't find anyone who is selling one.  Every hit I get on it says No Longer Available when I check it out.

And, I found a thread called Brake Proportioning Valve back on FTE.  This was back in 2013 and Chris said he only found two outfits that said they had 1 each, but he doubted they could find them.  And what you probably don't know is that back then he and I had access to the Ford parts system, so that's really saying something if he couldn't find one.

However, one guy on there said his Crewcab F350 DRW's valve works fine and he can lock all 6 wheels up any time.  But, can we believe him?  

[Gary Lewis]

Good to know, Jim.  I'm not worried about the looks of the brake hoses, but I do like the idea of having ones that will last.  My family is not going to ever think about replacing hoses.  Thanks.

[Gary Lewis]

Mid-day update: The load-sensing valve came off w/o tearing anything up, so it could be put back on later.  However, the fitting on the end of the brake tubing that screwed into the valve is slightly bigger (.396) than the fittings that would got straight into a hose (.346").  But, there's a coupling about 3 or 4' forward and I have one of the tubes with the right-sized fitting, so I'll change that out.

And, along the way I found more signs that  had been here.  The bracket that holds the load-sensing valve's linkage is held on my 2 of the bolts holding the back cover on the 10.25" Sterling.  So I got the instructions on the torque spec's for those bolts on the Trick Flow cover and found they are supposed to be torqued to 25 lb-ft.  However, when I checked the torque on those two bolts I got 2 on one and 5 lb-ft on the other.  So I checked all of them - somewhere between 2 & 5.  

That might 'splain the weeping you can see in the pic below.  But they are all now torqued to 25.

[salans7]

That foot for the lift on the passenger side is a little scary there. Is it just the photo or is that truck close to coming off the lift?

[Gary Lewis]

It isn't directly in the center, but it isn't going anywhere.  Apparently it has moved in the last several months as I worked on it.  But I'm pretty close to getting the wheels on it so it'll be off the lift soon.

[Gary Lewis]

End Of Day Report:

After getting the proportioning valve off and discovering the the fitting on the brake tube that went into it was too big to go into the brake hose I have, I swapped out that brake tube with one that's probably off of Dad's truck.  (I have new stainless ones for Dad's truck.)  And it all went together fine.  However, if I go to the taller F350 rear blocks I'll have to replace the hose as it just barely has slack - but it isn't as tight as it looks.



Then I decided to get started on the hydroboost conversion, and these things fell off:




Then, just for grins, I put the hydroboost unit in place and bolted the F450's master in.  (The F250 master off of Huck won't go on the hydroboost as the bolts are just a bit too wide.)  However, knowing that the front and rear lines are swapped on the later masters, I pulled Big Blue's lines off from the brake pressure differential valve  and put Huck's (1990 F250) on, and they screwed in perfectly.

But, do I just put a plug in where the red switch is?

[ArdWrknTrk]

Sooo happy to see those parts finally being fitted.

You just plug the recall safety harness in to the switch.
If it were me, I'd swap in a factory fresh BOO just so I could sleep at night.

[Gary Lewis]

Oh, that's the BOO - Brake On/Off switch?  I want to have one as the ECU is expecting it.  But I didn't know if that was the BOO or the Brake Pressure Switch.

[ArdWrknTrk]

Ok, I'm wrong.

That's definitely the pressure switch.
And even though it 'should' be good, I remember being the first one to find Ben's truck on fire.

It made me think, about speed control.

[Gary Lewis]

Ok, if that's the brake pressure switch then I'll just plug it off as I'm not going to use it.

And, the BOO is apparently just the "stop lamp switch" we've had all along.  Here's the page from the '85 EVTM.  Note the same wire colors as in the '96 EVTM above.

[ArdWrknTrk]

I'm not seeing how speed control works in the Bullnose trucks.
(I mean, I know it's a vacuum servo) but the disengage signal.

Or are you all in with the EEC-V and will just short those pins out?

[Gary Lewis]

Here's the "schematic" for the speed control, although it does both electrical and vacuum.  The vacuum dump valve is one way to kill the speed control, but the other is either the stop lamp switch (BOO) or the clutch switch.

But I'm not sure how to answer your "Or are you all in with the EEC-V and will just short those pins out?".  I think I have most things figured out on the EEC-V.  But I don't plan to short any pins out.  If I'm not using them I turn them off in the configuration.

[Gary Lewis]

Mid-day plea for help!

The 1995 FSM says to tighten the caliper guide pins to 85-100 lb-ft, as shown on the page below.  But, those are 10.9 M8 x 1.25's and most of what I find for torque values for those bolts is ~25 lb-ft.

So I look further and at the end of that chapter it says "Front disc brake caliper to spindle bolts: 22 - 26 lb-ft".  Given that I've torqued them to 25 lb-ft.  What am I missing?

[Nothing Special]

My '97 F-250 I think has essentially the same brakes as your '95 Dana 60.  I'm not looking at it now, but I can't imagine that the caliper slide pins go through the spindle.  Don't they go through a big casting that's bolted to the knuckle?  So that sounds pretty messed up to me.

If I'm remembering it right, getting that big casting off was a chore.  I needed about a 3' cheater bar to get enough torque to break those bolts loose.  I could easily believe them requiring 100 lb-ft.  But they aren't slide pins and don't go through either the caliper or the spindle as I remember, so I don't think I'm being much help.