Big Blue's Transformation

[Gary Lewis]

I have at least one clutch switch.  I know I got one from David and I think one from you.  So I'm in good shape there.  Thanks!

[FuzzFace2]

Gary Lewis wrote

Bill - That's one of the many reasons I'm going to use the '85 speed control system.  

But I don't have a vacuum switch on the clutch.  And, the 1985 EVTM says the brake pedal has one but not the clutch.  However, the clutch pedal is supposed to have a switch that both deactivates the speed control as well as prevents you from starting the truck with the clutch engaged.  Big Blue doesn't currently have that switch, although he certainly will as a consequence of the "transformation".

On the tanks, 'tanks.    Good to know both that the wiring is the same and about the ground.  But as long as there is a ground I don't think it'll matter from whence it comes.  I'll be using the rear harness from the '85, so it'll be the in-cab ground.

A word on being able to crank the motor with out pushing in the clutch like in the old days.
Out in the no mans land you may come up to a point to need to crank the truck to move it like in a water soak stall out to get it out of the water.
Would you get out in the middle of a river / stream to bypass the switch to crank it out so you can work on it?
Just something to think about.
Dave ----

[Gary Lewis]

Interesting!  You are saying that if it stalls out in a stream it would be nice to be able to put it in low range, leave the clutch engaged, and just crank it out of the stream?  Hmmmm....  Wouldn't have thought of that.

I had a guy almost run one of my trucks through the garage door 'cause he didn't realize it would crank in gear w/the clutch out.  And I can imagine others doing the same.  So I think I want to err on the side of safety.  But, it would be easy to bypass the switch with a pushbutton that would let it crank with the clutch engaged.  

[Nothing Special]

Another time to start with the clutch engaged is when starting on a steep hill, or when you stall the engine crawling over rocks.  Right now there's a thread going on in another bulletin board I'm on about this.  That board is for old flat-fender Jeeps (I don't have one of those either ) which are pretty low powered and could really use lower gearing in the rocks (of course they could also really use taller gearing on the road...).  Anyway, with the small 4 banger and relatively tall "crawl ratio" it's easy to stall when trying to get over a rock.  The time-honored solution is to restart the engine in gear.  In low gear low range the starter can usually start pulling the vehicle up the rock and as the (well-tuned) engine starts you just keep going.  Much easier than trying to slip a clutch to get going like that.

Same thing for getting started on a steep hill without rolling backward.  Put it in gear and start it.  You just chug ahead rather than needing to do a three-pedal dance.

Torquey 460s, granny trans and t.case gearing, good parking brakes and a hand throttle are all other ways of skinning this cat (whoever coined that phrase must have been a dog person).  And while my Bronco doesn't have an interlock switch on the clutch I can't say that I've ever started it in gear when fourwheeling.  But it's something to think about.

[Gary Lewis]

Bob - Another good point regarding the clutch switch.  You'se guys make a good point to have a bypass push button to allow starting with the clutch in.  Thanks.  (And, there's that hand throttle nudge again.  But I'm going to see if the PTO function works first, and if not I'll install the hand throttle.  )

Now, for what I did today - more connector identification on the harnesses.  I'm just about done, but have discovered that some of the connectors, like the EGR solenoid and the secondary air injection solenoid, have a factory jumper in them.  

I have almost all of the connectors ID'd and need to figure out the last few, document them, and then move on.

Which leads me to a question for y'all.  Do you agree with this approach?  This is what I have in my embedded document.

☒ Determine which signals need to go to the ECU
☐ Determine what connectors I have on the harnesses and which can be removed
☐ Diagram the PCB and figure out which relays and fuses aren’t needed and how to use those spots, if needed
☐ Take wiring harnesses apart and remove the un-needed wiring and connectors, and then put the harnesses back together.
☐ Lay out where the parts that attach to the driver’s side inner fender go and mount them.

While this may be the slowest-possible approach, at least it will give me the assurance that I know what is needed and what is not needed.  Thoughts?

[Gary Lewis]

I think I'll start phrasing the questions differently.  Something like "If no one disagrees I'll take that as concurrence."  

Anyway, I think I've almost gotten all of the connectors on the harnesses ID'd and hope to finish that up today.  But, I want to confirm my understanding of the O2 sensors and their usage.  There are 3 of them in the EEC-V system: #11 - upstream right; #21 - upstream left; and #12 - downstream/after the cat.  My notes tell me that since I won't have a cat I can't run the one that is after it since it will always throw a code - and there's no reason for it anyway.  Does anyone disagree?

So, looking at the Rock Auto site I find these three Bosch sensors.  And since I know that only the CA-spec 460's had EEC-V/MAF/SEFI then I think I need #15717 (upstream left w/CA emissions) and #15716 (upstream right w/manual trans and CA emissions).  Disagree?

[salans7]

Most of us don't think like an engineer, so that may explain the lack of replies. Most of us just wing it and figure it out along the way.

I have no basis for disagreement.

[Frank Wyatt]

I agree with Salans7 as that's my usual approach, dive right in and figure it out as I go. It works for me since I have been wrenching on cars and trucks since i was 13 or 14 years old so at least I have some mechanical experience to back me up. I also have all the great minds on this forum to look to for advice on things I'm not familiar with when I get stumped. Good job Gary, and I thank you for this forum of knowledge you have brought together for us all.

[ArdWrknTrk]

Somebody, the other day said "It's not the Space Shuttle"

I guess they've never met Gary!  

[Nothing Special]

Gary Lewis wrote

I think I'll start phrasing the questions differently.  Something like "If no one disagrees I'll take that as concurrence."  ....

As long as you don't hold us liable if it doesn't work out like you'd hoped!

Seriously, if I do have concerns I will reply.  If I agree that it's a good plan I will probably reply.  If I don't really have many thoughts about it I likely won't reply.

So with that said, I think this is a good plan (the "I'll take that as concurrence" that is, I'm not speaking to the wiring)

[Gary Lewis]

Ok guys, I guess I'll take your jabs as concurrence.  

Anyway, I had a bit of a setback today as I, foolishly, did an "upgrade" to the BIOS to my Win 8 shop computer.  In the back of my mind I knew I shouldn't, but HP said it is a critical update for security.  It is now very secure - the network controller and many other controllers aren't working.  The drivers are bad and I have no way to get new drivers save put them on a thumb drive.  But when I tell it to update the drivers it can't install them.  

In some ways I've been needing a new computer as this one will just decide to shut down w/o warning.  So anything I was doing is gone unless I save FREQUENTLY.  But I really don't want to spend the time to migrate to a new computer.  Plus, I have two large monitors so any new computer has to have two HDMI ports on it.  But I guess now I'll need to upgrade.  Any suggestions?

Now, for Big Blue.  I'm almost to the end of ID'ing the connectors on the 1996 CA-spec harness.  But I had to pull out the '95 F450 Fed-spec harness I got from Jim as some connectors were missing on the CA harness and I needed to figure out where they go.  And, in doing that I proved, yet again, why you get multiple of whatever you are doing - the Fed harness has pretty much the connectors that are missing from the CA harness.  Like, the ignition module one.  

Along the way I compared the two PDB's - which appear to be the same.  The '96 CA PDB is on the left and the '95 Fed harness is on the right:




And, you may be asking what the differences are between the two.  Here's a shot of the CA-spec ECU connector on the left and the Fed-spec connector on the right.  Notice there are a few more pins on the CA-spec connector?  Because that goes to the EEC-V ECU while the other goes to an EEC-IV ECU.  The EEC-V ECU's have 104 pins and the IV's have 60.  Part of the extra pins go for things like 8 separate injectors instead of two sets if four, the MAF sensor, etc.





So, now I'm going to start mapping the PDB.  As you can see in the PDB pic above, I have extra connectors so can populate the unused relay and fuse positions - if I need them.

[Gary Lewis]

Ok, here's a question probably best addressed to Bill, but I'd be happy if others chimed in as well.

The question is where to interface between the '85 and '96 regarding the fuel pressure relay.  On the '85 the FPR is an unusual type of relay and hangs by itself on the firewall looking like an afterthought.  But it is there and works.  On the '96 the FPR is a standard Ford/Bosch style relay and is in the power distribution box.  So, which to use?

To use the '85 Bill came up with a slick way of having the ECU provide the ground to the '85 FPR, and presumably also ran a wire back to the ECU to let it monitor the output of the FPR.

But, I could use the FPR in the power distribution box and eliminate the '85 FPR on the firewall as well as the oil pressure switch on the back of the engine.  This would preserve the '96 system and would only require running the output of the '96 FPR to the '85 inertia switch and then jumpering the wires where the '85 FPR was.

I lean to the latter as the '96 engine harness doesn't have any wiring for the oil pressure switch.  Yes, I could integrate the wiring that is there, but it seems cleaner to use the whole of the '96 system and interface after it.

Thoughts?  Would wiring diagrams help you get your head around it?

[salans7]

Your pros outweigh the cons on that. Keeping the 96 wiring/system relatively complete, Bosch style relays, all relays in the same spot, etc.

[ArdWrknTrk]

I tend to agree.
Stick with one thing that works, and KISS.

Of course, it's you... and not me.

So, I did something similar in my PDC today, re; a self contained feedback loop.

Man, I would never flash a bios or kernel on a box that was crashing at random.
Although, I don't think I'd ever run Win8 either.

Did a 7-10 for Tom last week.
He's got a dog slow 5k hard drive and 'only' 8G of RAM.
Ugh!

Yet I can remember computers with kilobytes of RAM and Meg's of HD space...

** Old man shaking fist at clouds  😂

[ArdWrknTrk]

Gary Lewis wrote

  Would wiring diagrams help you get your head around it?

While I like 'being the electron' when components are labeled "Solid State" it's like "There be Dragons here!".

If the gates OF the component were there I could easily navigate.

[Danny G]

Gary Lewis wrote

 On the '96 the FPR is a standard Ford/Bosch style relay and is in the power distribution box.  So, which to use?

sounds more than likely if there is an issue in the future this is also an easier relay to get you hands on.

[Gary Lewis]

ArdWrknTrk wrote

While I like 'being the electron' when components are labeled "Solid State" it's like "There be Dragons here!". If the gates OF the component were there I could easily navigate.

I'm not quite sure what you mean, but for my own edification I'm going to draw the two ideas up. But I'm going to use the pages from the EVTM's and don't have the '96 pages scanned in. Maybe tomorrow.

And, to give you an idea what I'm working on, here's the spreadsheet. You might have to scroll around to get to the good info as it doesn't seem to be coming up on the right cell. But it'll let you see what I'm doing.

[Gary Lewis]

TheScatch wrote

Gary Lewis wrote

 On the '96 the FPR is a standard Ford/Bosch style relay and is in the power distribution box.  So, which to use?

sounds more than likely if there is an issue in the future this is also an easier relay to get you hands on.

Yes.  And one of the reasons I mentioned it.  I have a reasonable stock of the Ford relays, but none of the Bullnose FPR.  In fact, in a pinch a standard Bosch relay could be used, although you'd either have to take the tab off or leave the cover open.

Forgot to mention when discussing the spreadsheet that at this point it looks like I'll have two relay slots open.  There are five slots, and although one doesn't have contacts in it there are plenty of contacts to be had in other PDB's I have.

So I'll have the PCM and the FPR relays.  I don't need the horn relay since I'll use the Bullnose horn relay, but there are several things in there that need Key On power, so I'll use the horn relay as a key-on relay.

That leaves two relays open, so I could use those for the headlights and power them off one of the unused fuse slots.  However, I have the trailer option relay module that I won't use as I'll continue to use the Bullnose trailer setup.  So I might use the two trailer relays by the main battery and just tap into the Bullnose headlight wiring at the right headlight and run the wires to the left headlight across the radiator support - if there's room in the bundle as it is already large.

Suggestions?

[ArdWrknTrk]

I get mired in a spreadsheet but can easily navigate a schematic.
If a schematic throws a big box with 104 leads coming out, it's impossible for me

The EVTM is essentially ITTT.
But if the IC was something like their rendition of an ignition or headlamp switch thats fine.

Billions of billions of switches???  

ASML is right up the road at the Wilton line.
They manufacture the machines that manufacture almost ALL the chips.
I think Samsung may be one exception in that they have enough vertical integration to pull it off, but Intel and the others use these, essentially the patterns, forms, mullers, rams and flasks of their foundry.

If my personal experience with IGBT is any example, discreet relays will be as arcane as gas lamps.
Walk into the hardware or general store and ask for a pound of carbide and a thorium mantle.

[ArdWrknTrk]

That leaves two relays open, so I could use those for the headlights and power them off one of the unused fuse slots.  However, I have the trailer option relay module that I won't use as I'll continue to use the Bullnose trailer setup.  So I might use the two trailer relays by the main battery and just tap into the Bullnose headlight wiring at the right headlight and run the wires to the left headlight across the radiator support - if there's room in the bundle as it is already large.

Suggestions?

I don't remember, but is the blower motor in a '96 on relay power?
That's what I intend to use my last relay for.

At least you're dealing with the harness on the bench.
I had to loosen up my radiator and remove the reservoir just to push the fog lamp wire through, and back up to my dash.