Best 351w cam for torque?

[Blacktop]

Looking into rebuilding the 351w that came out of my '84.
I'm wanting good torque over high horsepower as it wont be a screamer, not looking to build a high reving engine. Currently considering the XE250H from Comp Cams ;

https://www.summitracing.com/int/parts/cca-35-230-3/make/ford

Anyone else running this cam or can make any suggestions?

Many thanks,
Alan

[Jacob84]

What size tires and gear ratio do you have? Do you have any mpg goals for the truck? I'm a fan of OEM cams because they knew what they were doing (although restricted my emission laws). If you're running stock heads, intake, etc then I would see if there's an OEM cam that would suit your needs. The 84-87 5.8 HO cams are pretty great for an OEM cam even more so if you advance it a couple degrees to get rid of the OEM retard (.444/.452 .206/.221 duration @ .050 115 degree LSA). I've ran a 5.8 HO with E7 heads for several years and if the motor would have been fresh it would've been a stump puller but she was wore out from sitting 10 years before I got her. If I built a flat tappet Windsor to drive and use on a regular basis it would have that cam.

Right now I'm running a 95 351w roller motor with a cam from a 5.0 HO mustang and it has gobs of torque (.445 intake and exhaust .210/211 duration @.050 and 115 degree LSA.) There's a mountain of torque from 2k rpm on and it'll twist to 5,200 to make some good horsepower.

I highly recommend these cams for a stock-ish motor, they were designed for stock motors and make excellent and usable torque but they make good horsepower too.

It really depends on what parts you plan on using and what the goals are for the truck. What will this rebuild look like? fairly stock? or fairly aftermarket? My truck is my workhorse so I wanted torque but also decent horsepower for passing and getting to speed quickly. I was also running stock heads and rotating assembly so I chose a cam that was designed for my heads and met my needs. It doesn't put a strain on the stock valvetrain and it works well with my cylinder heads just like an OEM cam should.  

[Blacktop]

Im running 3.50 gears at the moment on 33" tyres. Planning on increasing to 35" but will change to 4.10 gears when I do. The 351w will probably just be freshened up with new pistons if needed and reuse or rebuild the stock heads. Although I do have a set of edelbrock and holley heads I could use if needed. I was keeping those for another 5.0 roller I am also planning on building.
Fuel economy is not a major concern as the truck is a toy not a daily. Not worried about a speed machine either, if I want to go anywhere quick I jump in my foxbody mustang.

Alan

[Rembrant]

Blacktop wrote

Currently considering the XE250H from Comp Cams ;

I think the XE250H is quite a popular choice for a truck 351w. I was going to install one in my 302, but ended up going with the XE256H. It works really well, and it sounds absolutely awesome, but in hindsight I think I would have been happier and better off with the XE250H. Just my 2 cents worth.

In all of the reading that I did, I found a lot of people that were really pleased with the XE250H, and not one single complaint or regret in installing it.

[Blacktop]

Yeah, think I'm 99% certain I'll go with the 250. I've not heard any negative reviews of it either so it must be good.
I'm a way off from starting the rebuild at the moment as I may be moving house soon as this virus shutdown is over🤞so got some time to consider my options.

Alan

[Gary Lewis]

I think you'll be happy with the XE250H.  I put one in a 351W with a 2bbl on it and it would spin the tires from a stop.  I was impressed.

[Angelo Voltura]

The 250H is basically what one would consider an old school RV cam, kinda. For what you are doing I think you'll be happy with it, just don't expect it to scream to 6k rpm. Here is some information for you, with some things to consider. This might open some eyes.

My father has a Napa KC1158R in his truck. That cam is a STUMP PULLER. The XE250H is has slightly better lift and duration. However, lets evaluate.

By comparison, here are the advertised specs that matter.


Comp Cam XE250H:

Duration @ .050": 206/212
Lift: .432/.444
LSA: 110


Napa KC1158R (302 Firing Order):

Duration @ .050": 194/204
Lift: .424/.448
LSA: 110



This is entirely assuming the rest of the engine is fairly stock.

By comparison, the Napa cam has slightly less overall duration than Comp Cam. This leads to believe it will build torque a little lower in the RPM's (we are talking maybe 200rpm difference) and the Comp cam will rev a hair higher. I would expect torque values as a whole say on a dyno are probably about the same between the two but shifted in different spots in the RPM range.

The issue with our engines is the exhaust side of things has always been hampered from the factory. The Napa cam has slightly better exhaust lift and a weaker intake side, almost intentionally. This is a good thing especially when mated which larger valving in the heads. Personally, he's running 2.02/1.54 valving I believe, maybe 1.60 I can't remember.


Here is the head scratcher. Neither one of these cams are anything particularly better than certain year FACTORY camshafts and are merely meant to be STOCK replacements. In fact, both are actually WORSE (depending on what you are doing). These cams above and the stock cames make similar power except they shift that usual power down in the RPM range a little. By comparison, lets take a look at some factory specs.


Standard 351W

Duration @ .050": 206/221
Lift: .445/.453
LSA: 112


HO 351W

Duration @ .050": 210/221
Lift: .453/.453
LSA: 112


Factory F4TE Roller Cam

Duration @ .050": 256/266
Lift: .422/.448
LSA: 116



That factory roller cam isn't really worth converting over to in my opinion. The specs look better overall, but roller cam specs are far different than flat tappet cams and cannot be measured the same due to the style lifter.


In my opinion as a whole overall, the biggest change you can make that would produce a noticeable difference is converting to 1.7 rockers to increase overall lift (as long as your pistons clear you will need to do a little digging) and running a Comp Cams 260H grind. It will still give you the nice smooth idle like stock and pull great vacuum (I think around 17") for power brakes, but you will blow the doors off any other cam listed here. The 260H is right about what a stock 351 HO has factory. Upgrading the rockers will allow you to gain a substantial amount of lift while retaining stock driveability characteristics. Odds are you have the standard 351 cam, so this would be an exponential improvement.


Comp Cams 260H:

Duration @ .050": 212/212
Lift with stock rockers: .447/.447
Lift with 1.7 rockers: .474/.474
LSA: 110


I think you would be extremely happy with an 260H over the rest of these especially if you spend the money on a rocker upgrade. It's apart. Now is the time to do it.

[LARIAT 85]

Gary Lewis wrote

I think you'll be happy with the XE250H.  I put one in a 351W with a 2bbl on it and it would spin the tires from a stop.  I was impressed.

I concur.  

I run the XE250H (31-230-3) cam in Lucille and I was very impressed with the improvement over stock.  This is a good high lift/short duration cam that makes strong torque from 600 - 4800 RPM, which is just right for a truck.  The tighter lobe separation helps gives it a killer sound at idle.  Add dual exhaust with an H-pipe and Flowmaster mufflers to the mix and it sounds like a Fox 5.0.

[Angelo Voltura]

See that's what confuses me. On paper that cam is no better than the factory ones other than the basic operating range shifts a little which isn't enough to really be noticeable. The LSA is a little tighter for overlap for the shift in operating range but nothing major.

[LARIAT 85]

Angelo Voltura wrote

See that's what confuses me. On paper that cam is no better than the factory ones other than the basic operating range shifts a little which isn't enough to really be noticeable. The LSA is a little tighter for overlap for the shift in operating range but nothing major.

The XE250H is nothing like the 1980 - 1986 stock emissions-style cam in trucks with the 5.0 or 5.8 (2V).

It is a better cam that what came in the first generation (1993 - 1995) F150 Lightning. It is very much like the cam found in the 1984 - 1987 truck 5.8L H.O.(4V) or the legendary Mustang 5.0L H.O., with more of an emphasis on low-end torque rather than high RPM horsepower.  

[Blacktop]

Thanks all for your opinions and all the info
That is just the help I was needing. The engine did used to have all the emissions and computer controlled 2 barrel carb so its safe to assume it also has the emission restricted cam in it too. I'm sure the 250 cam will increase low down torque over the emission stock cam which is exactly what I'm looking for.
I will probably fit my spare edelbrock heads instead of using the stock emission heads if they have the restrictions in the exhaust ports.

Once again, thank you for the info.

Alan

[Gary Lewis]

You can bet the heads have the humps in them.  They may be D8OE's, and those are about the worst that Ford made.  Huge humps.  Go with the Eddys.

[Jacob84]

Blacktop wrote

 Currently considering the XE250H from Comp Cams

I did some looking at that cam and it's comparable to the 351w HO cam. The biggest difference I saw was the LSA difference. The 250 cam has a tight LSA but they make up for that by advancing the intake valve timing considerably. There is also a little more lift with the HO cam and more exhaust duration. The 351W HO cam with lifters is also cheaper than the 250 cam with lifters if that's a concern.

I know you're looking for torque though. One thing I noticed on the dyno sheet provided with the 250 cam was that it made peak torque at 3,700 rpm and peak HP at 4,600 (with a mild 350). The HO cam makes peak torque at 2,800 and peak HP at 4k. Although, the 250 cam makes REALLY good torque throughout the entire rpm range. I'm definitely not trying to talk the 250 cam down, it seems really good, but just a difference I thought you might want to know. Might be something to think about since you'll be running 35s which aren't light.

I don't think you'll be disappointed with the 250 cam. It's proven and people have had good experiences with them. If your heart is set on it, go for it, I'd like to know how it works out for you especially with a relatively stock motor. I can get a little carried away with making torque out of a stock 351w, one of my favorite things to talk about.

There is one upgrade I would consider when you rebuild your motor. If you have D8 heads (I did on my 84) I would highly recommend you find some E7 heads from a later model 351w. Those D8 heads are terrible. They are the worst heads Ford ever made (very restrictive even for a stock head). Now the E7s aren't a massive upgrade but they do flow better on the exhaust side and have slightly more compression which will help you build some more torque. The only thing I would use D8 heads for is a boat anchor or an oversized paper weight.

[Blacktop]

I also have a spare set of scorpion 1.72 roller rockers. They were going to be used on my next 5.0 roller build but I could see them ending up on the 351 instead.

[Blacktop]

OK, that's my mind made up then. The stock heads wont be reused. I'll go with the edelbrocks
It'll have an air gap intake and a holley 600 vac sec too as well as duraspark hei ignition.
Thanks again guys,

Alan

[LARIAT 85]

Blacktop wrote

OK, that's my mind made up then. The stock heads wont be reused. I'll go with the edelbrocks
It'll have an air gap intake and a holley 600 vac sec too as well as duraspark hei ignition.
Thanks again guys,

Alan

If your truck is a daily driver or one that will be driven in colder temperatures, I would *not* recommend using the Air Gap intake.

[Angelo Voltura]

LARIAT 85 wrote

Angelo Voltura wrote

See that's what confuses me. On paper that cam is no better than the factory ones other than the basic operating range shifts a little which isn't enough to really be noticeable. The LSA is a little tighter for overlap for the shift in operating range but nothing major.

The XE250H is nothing like the 1980 - 1986 stock emissions-style cam in trucks with the 5.0 or 5.8 (2V).

It is a better cam that what came in the first generation (1993 - 1995) F150 Lightning. It is very much like the cam found in the 1984 - 1987 truck 5.8L H.O.(4V) or the legendary Mustang 5.0L H.O., with more of an emphasis on low-end torque rather than high RPM horsepower.

According to paper they are almost identical.

[Blacktop]

Its not a daily, its a weekend toy.
Also, just remembered I have a pair of stock heads with new valves. Had a look at the casting numbers and they are 1969 302 C9OE's. They have a small hump in the exhaust ports that I can easily remove so they might be an option too

[Gary Lewis]

Best check the volume of those heads or you might have a bit too much compression ratio.

[LARIAT 85]

Jacob84 wrote

I did some looking at that cam and it's comparable to the 351w HO cam. The biggest difference I saw was the LSA difference. The 250 cam has a tight LSA but they make up for that by advancing the intake valve timing considerably. There is also a little more lift with the HO cam and more exhaust duration. The 351W HO cam with lifters is also cheaper than the 250 cam with lifters if that's a concern.

According to the specs I have, it looks like the XE250H cam has more lift than the 5.8L H.O. cam, but less exhaust duration:

Ford 5.8L H.O. cam:
.206 intake, .221 exhaust @ .050
.440 intake valve lift, .450 exhaust valve lift
115 degrees lobe separation

Comp XE250H cam:
.206 intake, .212 exhaust @ .050
.460 intake valve lift, .474 exhaust valve lift
110 degrees lobe separation


Ford 5.0L H.O. cam:
.210 intake, .210 exhaust @ .050
.444 intake valve lift, .444 exhaust valve lift
115 degrees lobe separation