460 starter issue

[mat in tn]

this will get clearer to me tomorrow when I remove the pan. the front dipstick in the timing cover is pinched off about 2' tall right where the sharp edges can surprise the unlucky wrencher. the pan is a newer replacement that has the dipstick in the pan. this is obviously a cobbled together mess that I'm trying to clean up. I will have to run the parts numbers of the flywheel also to be certain it is a match.

[ArdWrknTrk]

Through 78 are internal balance, so no 'pork chop' behind the harmonic damper (just a sleeve spacer)
And a flywheel with no lumps or welded on weights.
If the rear crank flange has an equal bolt circle pattern you can be sure it's a pre '79 (internal) crank.

When you pull the pan off you will see the rear pickup, held by a tab under a flange nut on the bearing cap stud.
FRPP offered a rear sump 'kit' with pan, pickup & dipstick.

I'm going to suggest that a pair of L&L swap motor mounts will put the engine higher and probably solve the belt hitting the steering adjuster screw, and make more room for the alternator.
These seem to still be okay with the fan in the radiator shroud.
(but I'm not trying to spend your money)

If this engine has a mechanical pump I can recommend a new timing case (about a Franklin)
This fixes water port erosion and the dipstick in one fell swoop.

Be sure to check the water pump backing plate for heavy pitting or holes.

 Again, I'm minding your business, and I apologize for the overshare.

[mat in tn]

these are all good points. looking for corrosion is always a thing. I have had to cut covers before to be able to get to a corrosion broken bolt. not fun but sometimes you have to decide what to sacrifice to save the whole. I already considered "shimming the motor mounts a bit if I need to but I really wish I had a gauge for where everything should sit considering angles of trans, drive shafts pinion etc. but i am fairly versed on sbf and not bbf. I get to do this, and I like it, but it is why I opened the thread. I do see a lot of similarities with my 351m but mostly in how it differs from sbf. I will be open to knowledge from the experienced and the experience that I can gain.

[mat in tn]

I have noticed and I'm very aware that the engine was nose down with the trans tail shaft up causing the front half to be sloped down to the carrier bearing then back upwards to the axle.  it's a bit of an up, down, up, down thing. not as linear as I would like. probably a ton of. roofing sitting in the bed along with the weight of the bed and hydraulics. so, the rear half could be expected but I want to align as good as I can when the engine goes back.

[ArdWrknTrk]

Again, you're the expert, and I respect that.

I'm just trying to offer insight from the decades of 385 experience I have.

You pick up on this right away, I KNOW.
so.... I should stop offering unsolicited 'advice' and wait for your input.

But , at the same time, you may not know the important questions to ask.

Hopefully I'm not getting on your nerves. (I can definitely be that way)

The truck is obviously a ¢|u$+€£ £π¢!
Let me know if and how I can help.  

[mat in tn]

all good. I joined this forum a few years back because I value the shared knowledge.

[ArdWrknTrk]

I use PST on ALL the timing case and water pump bolts.
The Teflon keeps them from seizing/corroding into the Zamak case (anti seize tends to promote corrosion and makes it MUCH messier than need be)

https://www.ebay.com/itm/285603901545?chn=ps&norover=1&mkevt=1&mkrid=711-117182-37290-0&mkcid=2&mkscid=101&itemid=285603901545&targetid=1645685074288&device=t&mktype=pla&googleloc=1014778&poi=&campaignid=20133407470&mkgroupid=147476396765&rlsatarget=pla-1645685074288&abcId=9312979&merchantid=5308819465&gclid=CjwKCAiAq4KuBhA6EiwArMAw1PqoFME7y6GG1L8VON7YVyLFaegzV6Evj7hLgD25kYPlG5ACMrZ1UhoCJSMQAvD_BwE

https://www.summitracing.com/parts/fms-m-8501-460bp?seid=srese1&gclid=CjwKCAiAq4KuBhA6EiwArMAw1N5shcXvwgWdxMTJYIgmRLrLvyLKDmQeO-BiNLV2JnTzyqEh8UN27BoC5VcQAvD_BwE

https://www.summitracing.com/parts/sum-120114?srsltid=AfmBOopmW8G1299L4GUPdm403tqWWai7W1MbMFuJrs5bovcufUVdI5gbjyk

https://www.landlproducts.com/460-motor-mounts

[mat in tn]

thanks for the links. not sure about which if any will be needed but the oil filter adapter I really like.

[ArdWrknTrk]

If you have an early block and oil pan you need to get the timing case with all the same size holes.

On D9TE engines the bolts either side of the  FMS are bigger ( 5/16 instead of 1/4???)
So, something to look out for when you pop the pan back on, especially if just doing the cover and using the little 'ears' that glue in place.

Also, when you pull the cover, there will be a convolute weep passage for the ports either side of the water pump in the back of the timing case. (where it usually corrodes)
Be careful not to fill these up with RTV on re-installation.
They keep leaks from going directly into the sump, hidden from view.

[mat in tn]

well, I got it fully apart today. four pistons dropped their broken rings upon removal, two pistons galled at the skirts and top. obvious sign of the bores having been rusted and then "freed up". main bearings shot. the timing chain has 1 1/2" slack. so, it's clearly just worn out. the oil pump pickup does reach toward the back and fit the pan properly. for the most part all parts seem to fit as well as need be. the timing cover will get thoroughly cleaned before that judgment gets made. I have a little time now that I have dropped the block off at the machine shop.

[ArdWrknTrk]

That's not going to be cheap.
What flavor of pistons/rings/bearings does your machine shop use?
How did the cam look?
I'm going to suggest a straight up double roller timing set from an 88/ EFI engine.

[mat in tn]

we have not chosen the pistons yet. I'm certain it will get hypereutectic but not sure of brand. I agree on timing set since I'm not going to be using the fuel pump eccentric. the cam and lifters seem good although need a good cleaning.

[ArdWrknTrk]

EFI cam gear still has a space for the eccentric.
I've got a mechanical pump, i know it works.

A stock cam with zero retard in the timing is plenty spicy on top (for a pickup)
If there was that much slop I'm trying to understand how the chain didn't eat the timing cover.

Id be a little leery of re- using lifters that old, but it seems that whoever owned that engine 53 years ago stayed on top of oil changes if they are still crowned..  

[mat in tn]

yes, lifters need scrutiny for sure after a good cleaning. overall, the engine was not full of scale and gunk just very dirty oil. probably not going to touch it for the next week. big parts are at machine shop. I have other work to do and I'm going to take a little trade trip to TN and see grandkids while I'm there.

[ArdWrknTrk]

Enjoy them while they're young and still speaking to you!  😊

Hope the much deserved break is refreshing.
(I've found retrospection is  always a good reason to go 'home')

[mat in tn]

I have been doing a little research on the 86 f350 that I am rebuilding the engine for since I'm still waiting on the block at the machine shop. from different pictures that I have found, I believe I have located the origin for the engine sitting too low, along with the resulting belt rubs etc. now I am not a 460 expert at all. it's an engine like any other yet the fitment specifics are new to me. I know that I need to find the proper separator plate, but I seem to have the engine mounts for the 71 block and not the ones for an 86. it looks to me that the 86 used a taller lower portion than the earlier version of what looks to be a two-piece engine mount. if there are any pics/ documents that might help. I have not found one yet to look at in person to see for sure. if I cannot find the parts I know I can make them if I have dimensions.

[ArdWrknTrk]

Early engines with front dipstick's were very distinct from D9 external balance engines.
The towers are high, the  DS engine mount has a heat shield.
L&L have mounts that put a 460 in the right place.

Don't reinvent the wheel when you can just buy it.

[ArdWrknTrk]

Bill & I both have pictures of the engine mounts and the adapter plates that bolt to the block, in order to hold the exhaust manifolds up off the perches.

[85lebaront2]

Pictures of 1986 460 mount system as requested:
Adapter plate on D9TE block.

Left side mount with heat shield.


First thing, notice the size of these compared to the L&L mounts, they last, Darth's are still the original 1986 ones.

The frame perches are also different for the 460 due to the size of the engine and where the mounts sit.

[mat in tn]

these are the parts that I have. in my looking for pics and info I have seen one 460 for sale that has the 90-degree oil filter adapter and what looked to be risers on the engine mounts. I have not seen that before. that's why I am asking. in regard to the engine mounts, is the 460 the same or similar to a 351m/400? I do have one of those I could measure.