1982 Bronco 351 4x4 - Code name Esperanza

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Re: 1982 Bronco 351 4x4 - Code name Esperanza

Gsmblue
Post now in correct thread!

It was all going to well…

Turned the key, heard the sound of metal chewing metal!

The starter decided it didn’t like the teeth on the flywheel anymore.

I couldn’t fully remove the starter as the headers and transmission oil lines are in the way.

This may be a job for the garage. I just don’t have the set up to deal with this.

I need a PMGR starter, they are smaller, right?

I am pretty pissed!



Not sure if I can dismantle the starter or wiggle it free. Either way I think a new flywheel gear thing may be needed..
1985.5 F-150 XL Explorer standard cab 5.0 EFI AOD 4x4
Daily Driver. We call her Eunice the Ute.

1982 Bronco XLT Lariat 351W AOD 4x4
Code name Esperanza, or Espy to her friends. Please see my Project thread for the blow by blow.

1984 F-350 XL Centurion crew cab 460 T19 4x4
"Eylza Dual-little"
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Re: 1982 Bronco 351 4x4 - Code name Esperanza

ArdWrknTrk
Administrator
Poof! It's gone from Stein's thread.  

You have a flex plate, and yes it looks chewed up.
Can you take the starter apart to get it out?
I ask because that used to be the only way to change the starter in an Isuzu 3.2 V-6 that was 4x4.


What about the bearing in the nosecone of the starter that supports the Bendix gear?
How did the gear get so out of line that it caused the damage?

 Jim,
Lil'Red is a '87 F250 HD, 4.10's, 1356 4x4, Zf-5, 3G, PMGR, Saginaw PS, desmogged with a Holley 80508 and Performer intake.
Too much other stuff to mention.
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Re: 1982 Bronco 351 4x4 - Code name Esperanza

Gsmblue
Thank you!

Ah, that’s a flex plate!

Not sure if the starter can be disassembled or not. I didn’t force anything, a more experienced person may be able to wiggle the starter out.

I assume to replace a flex plate you have to drop the transmission? I am not geared up for that kind of work… I operate with wrenches and sockets on gravel…

I can’t get in to see the bearing, no idea how it got out of whack, maybe a weak engagement? Something funky going on for sure.

Going to call the garage tomorrow and chat with them…

So disappointed as so much was going well.
1985.5 F-150 XL Explorer standard cab 5.0 EFI AOD 4x4
Daily Driver. We call her Eunice the Ute.

1982 Bronco XLT Lariat 351W AOD 4x4
Code name Esperanza, or Espy to her friends. Please see my Project thread for the blow by blow.

1984 F-350 XL Centurion crew cab 460 T19 4x4
"Eylza Dual-little"
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Re: 1982 Bronco 351 4x4 - Code name Esperanza

ArdWrknTrk
Administrator
In reply to this post by Gsmblue
Yes, PMGR starters are generally smaller.
I think the 351 got them in 1994.
Do yourself a favor and do not use a spade connector for the trigger wire. This was a reliability issue due to corrosion.

They take some re-wiring.

The 800# gorilla is pulling a 4x4 transmission (and draining the cooler) to change out that flex plate....  😳
 Jim,
Lil'Red is a '87 F250 HD, 4.10's, 1356 4x4, Zf-5, 3G, PMGR, Saginaw PS, desmogged with a Holley 80508 and Performer intake.
Too much other stuff to mention.
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Re: 1982 Bronco 351 4x4 - Code name Esperanza

Gary Lewis
Administrator
In reply to this post by Gsmblue
Bummer!  As you said, things were going so well.  
Gary, AKA "Gary fellow": Profile

Dad's: '81 F150 Ranger XLT 4x4: Down for restomod: Full-roller "stroked 351M" w/Trick Flow heads & intake, EEC-V SEFI/E4OD/3.50 gears w/Kevlar clutches
Blue: 2015 F150 Platinum 4x4 SuperCrew wearing Blue Jeans & sporting a 3.5L EB & Max Tow
Big Blue: 1985 F250HD 4x4: 460/ZF5/3.55's, D60 w/Ox locker & 10.25 Sterling/Trutrac, Blue Top & Borgeson, & EEC-V MAF/SEFI

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Re: 1982 Bronco 351 4x4 - Code name Esperanza

Gsmblue
Ok. I have 2 ways forward.

I am going to try and pull the starter again tonight, using a bit more force to try and wiggle it out.

If I am successful I will order a PMGR starter. My thinking is I can manually crank the engine a little to find a good spot on the flex plate, install the PMGR starter, do the rewire. This should be enough to be able to drive it to a shop and have the flex plate replaced. Probably a few hours of labor there...

If I cannot remove the starter, I will have it towed to a garage and have a new starter and flex plate installed. I talk with them to have a PMGR installed.

When trying to remove the starter last night the bottom bolt was definitely threaded. Could have been my fault from turning the bolt the wrong way trying to loosen it. I was not thinking clearly as I was so frustrated. Took me a bit to get it out. Looks like there is space to put a nut on the other side so I will do that..Not the biggest issue here.

1985.5 F-150 XL Explorer standard cab 5.0 EFI AOD 4x4
Daily Driver. We call her Eunice the Ute.

1982 Bronco XLT Lariat 351W AOD 4x4
Code name Esperanza, or Espy to her friends. Please see my Project thread for the blow by blow.

1984 F-350 XL Centurion crew cab 460 T19 4x4
"Eylza Dual-little"
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Re: 1982 Bronco 351 4x4 - Code name Esperanza

Gsmblue
My friend suggested pulling the headers and sticking in my spare starter to see if it will work on the existing flex plate before spending any money.

I think that is a good idea. Going to be a busy day off tomorrow..
1985.5 F-150 XL Explorer standard cab 5.0 EFI AOD 4x4
Daily Driver. We call her Eunice the Ute.

1982 Bronco XLT Lariat 351W AOD 4x4
Code name Esperanza, or Espy to her friends. Please see my Project thread for the blow by blow.

1984 F-350 XL Centurion crew cab 460 T19 4x4
"Eylza Dual-little"
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Re: 1982 Bronco 351 4x4 - Code name Esperanza

Gsmblue
So the headers came off pretty easy. I guess as the engine is new the bolts are not seized. I will be applying anti seize when they go back in..

Before I put my spare starter in, is there anything I should check?

The removed starter.
1985.5 F-150 XL Explorer standard cab 5.0 EFI AOD 4x4
Daily Driver. We call her Eunice the Ute.

1982 Bronco XLT Lariat 351W AOD 4x4
Code name Esperanza, or Espy to her friends. Please see my Project thread for the blow by blow.

1984 F-350 XL Centurion crew cab 460 T19 4x4
"Eylza Dual-little"
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Re: 1982 Bronco 351 4x4 - Code name Esperanza

Gsmblue
I got a good picture of the flexplate teeth.

I am thinking this is salvageable. Take a small file to the burrs and call it good?





I have a new starter that i bought for the engine rebuild and forgot about. It is a duralast gold, it is slightly smaller than the unit i pulled off.

1985.5 F-150 XL Explorer standard cab 5.0 EFI AOD 4x4
Daily Driver. We call her Eunice the Ute.

1982 Bronco XLT Lariat 351W AOD 4x4
Code name Esperanza, or Espy to her friends. Please see my Project thread for the blow by blow.

1984 F-350 XL Centurion crew cab 460 T19 4x4
"Eylza Dual-little"
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Re: 1982 Bronco 351 4x4 - Code name Esperanza

Gary Lewis
Administrator
Yes, I think you can salvage that pretty easily, although you'll have to turn the engine over by using a breaker bar on the crank bolt.  And then put the other starter on.  
Gary, AKA "Gary fellow": Profile

Dad's: '81 F150 Ranger XLT 4x4: Down for restomod: Full-roller "stroked 351M" w/Trick Flow heads & intake, EEC-V SEFI/E4OD/3.50 gears w/Kevlar clutches
Blue: 2015 F150 Platinum 4x4 SuperCrew wearing Blue Jeans & sporting a 3.5L EB & Max Tow
Big Blue: 1985 F250HD 4x4: 460/ZF5/3.55's, D60 w/Ox locker & 10.25 Sterling/Trutrac, Blue Top & Borgeson, & EEC-V MAF/SEFI

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Re: 1982 Bronco 351 4x4 - Code name Esperanza

ArdWrknTrk
Administrator
In reply to this post by Gsmblue
You don't have anything to lose!

Is the new starter small enough to R&R with the headers in place?
If not I'd be pulling the pieces together needed for a PMGR, because I wouldn't ever want to be stuck removing my exhaust to change another starter. (and expect that if it's that close the starter is being broiled)
 Jim,
Lil'Red is a '87 F250 HD, 4.10's, 1356 4x4, Zf-5, 3G, PMGR, Saginaw PS, desmogged with a Holley 80508 and Performer intake.
Too much other stuff to mention.
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Re: 1982 Bronco 351 4x4 - Code name Esperanza

Gsmblue
Thanks Jim.

Yeah, at this point I have nothing to loose. I think it can slip by the headers. It is significantly smaller.

So the teeth are deburred, they were not bad, the closer you look the better it is.
New starter is in and hooked up.
Headers connected at the exhaust end.

I have to break for some work, but after I am going to dig some anti seize out and put the headers back on to the block.

Also, I am going to start it at this position with the worn teeth. If it starts here we are good. If it doesn't then it goes to the shop. It makes no sense to move the flex plate to good teeth and be caught out when at the grocery store!

Thanks for the help - hopefully one day someone searches for this issue and finds these posts helpful!
1985.5 F-150 XL Explorer standard cab 5.0 EFI AOD 4x4
Daily Driver. We call her Eunice the Ute.

1982 Bronco XLT Lariat 351W AOD 4x4
Code name Esperanza, or Espy to her friends. Please see my Project thread for the blow by blow.

1984 F-350 XL Centurion crew cab 460 T19 4x4
"Eylza Dual-little"
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Re: 1982 Bronco 351 4x4 - Code name Esperanza

ArdWrknTrk
Administrator
I wish you luck!  🤞

Your V-8 truck will tend to stop rotating at the same place anyhow.
When you shut it off it coasts around because of the mass of the crank and will stop on the compression stroke of a cylinder.
When I was having major starter troubles a decade back I did a little experiment to note that position over a dozen or more times. I think only once did it stop somewhere else, and (of course) that was 90° away.
 Jim,
Lil'Red is a '87 F250 HD, 4.10's, 1356 4x4, Zf-5, 3G, PMGR, Saginaw PS, desmogged with a Holley 80508 and Performer intake.
Too much other stuff to mention.
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Re: 1982 Bronco 351 4x4 - Code name Esperanza

Gsmblue
Wow, that is interesting. So that spot will wear more over time.

The good news is that it fired right up.

I have to assume a weak throw on the bendix?!
1985.5 F-150 XL Explorer standard cab 5.0 EFI AOD 4x4
Daily Driver. We call her Eunice the Ute.

1982 Bronco XLT Lariat 351W AOD 4x4
Code name Esperanza, or Espy to her friends. Please see my Project thread for the blow by blow.

1984 F-350 XL Centurion crew cab 460 T19 4x4
"Eylza Dual-little"
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Re: 1982 Bronco 351 4x4 - Code name Esperanza

Gary Lewis
Administrator
Congrat's!  Yes, a weak throw would do that.  Bet that PMGR spins it nicely.  
Gary, AKA "Gary fellow": Profile

Dad's: '81 F150 Ranger XLT 4x4: Down for restomod: Full-roller "stroked 351M" w/Trick Flow heads & intake, EEC-V SEFI/E4OD/3.50 gears w/Kevlar clutches
Blue: 2015 F150 Platinum 4x4 SuperCrew wearing Blue Jeans & sporting a 3.5L EB & Max Tow
Big Blue: 1985 F250HD 4x4: 460/ZF5/3.55's, D60 w/Ox locker & 10.25 Sterling/Trutrac, Blue Top & Borgeson, & EEC-V MAF/SEFI

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Re: 1982 Bronco 351 4x4 - Code name Esperanza

firefire
In reply to this post by Gsmblue
Hi.
Have read a little bit about the AOD slipping. Could it be that your TV cable is not correctly adjusted ? Its easy to correct. Seeing what you have done I am sure you can fix the leaks yourself. The leak at the bell housing is the more difficult. Especially on gravel In the photo the oil looks brown to me. Which suggests engine oil. Could come from the crank shaft seal.
Greetings Stein
Stein.
1986 Bronco Eddie Bauer, 5,8L, 3 speed Autom.Tr
1996 F350 , 7,3L Powerstroke, 4wd, 5 speed Man. Tr.
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Re: 1982 Bronco 351 4x4 - Code name Esperanza

Gsmblue
Thanks for the tips. The pic was bad, the oil is definitely red. The transmission place did tighten up the bolts on the oil pan and the drain plug on the transfer case. The only leak now is the at the yoke of the transfer case. So let’s see how this all goes.

I know the AOD is normally a cable, but I am pretty sure this set up is using a rod/link…

Today was fun, I tinkered with the carb. I took some vacuum readings at the manifold port, it was 14-15. I think the scale is inches Hg, I was using the harbor freight gauge. So I changed the springs in the carb that are connected to the rods to the pink 7 inches ones, from the stock silver ones that are very squishy and went for a drive. Everything is behaving better. There is a little stutter but no backfire.

The Edelbrock 1406 is a mystery! I am running ethanol free gas, about 14degrees of timing at idle. Running one stage rich on cruise and stock on power, pink springs and I have the pump link set to the inside hole.Once the AFR is hooked up I will be able to tune it much better,

I just think this engine wants more everything! I never got a build sheet from the engine shop so I need to call them.

1985.5 F-150 XL Explorer standard cab 5.0 EFI AOD 4x4
Daily Driver. We call her Eunice the Ute.

1982 Bronco XLT Lariat 351W AOD 4x4
Code name Esperanza, or Espy to her friends. Please see my Project thread for the blow by blow.

1984 F-350 XL Centurion crew cab 460 T19 4x4
"Eylza Dual-little"
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Re: 1982 Bronco 351 4x4 - Code name Esperanza

Gary Lewis
Administrator
Yes, some AOD's had rods and some had cables.

Sounds like you have a bit of a cam if you are only getting 14 - 15 inches of vacuum.  Normally I'd expect 18".  So you may well need to fatten up the mix.  But you are right, you need the AFR meter working to do the tuning.  
Gary, AKA "Gary fellow": Profile

Dad's: '81 F150 Ranger XLT 4x4: Down for restomod: Full-roller "stroked 351M" w/Trick Flow heads & intake, EEC-V SEFI/E4OD/3.50 gears w/Kevlar clutches
Blue: 2015 F150 Platinum 4x4 SuperCrew wearing Blue Jeans & sporting a 3.5L EB & Max Tow
Big Blue: 1985 F250HD 4x4: 460/ZF5/3.55's, D60 w/Ox locker & 10.25 Sterling/Trutrac, Blue Top & Borgeson, & EEC-V MAF/SEFI

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Re: 1982 Bronco 351 4x4 - Code name Esperanza

firefire
In reply to this post by Gsmblue
Good news on the leaks. Replacing the seal at the transfercase , Simmerring in Norway, is no problem. If you have to do it your self. Working on carburetors is a mystery for most of us. It gets even more difficult if your carburetor is not 100% OK. My problems ended when I bought a new one.
Stein.
1986 Bronco Eddie Bauer, 5,8L, 3 speed Autom.Tr
1996 F350 , 7,3L Powerstroke, 4wd, 5 speed Man. Tr.
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Re: 1982 Bronco 351 4x4 - Code name Esperanza

Gsmblue
This post was updated on .
Getting the manifold vacuum reading helped tremendously. I set the best lean idle. I really think the AFR gauge is key and I think this engine wants more gas! Looking forward to finding out!
1985.5 F-150 XL Explorer standard cab 5.0 EFI AOD 4x4
Daily Driver. We call her Eunice the Ute.

1982 Bronco XLT Lariat 351W AOD 4x4
Code name Esperanza, or Espy to her friends. Please see my Project thread for the blow by blow.

1984 F-350 XL Centurion crew cab 460 T19 4x4
"Eylza Dual-little"
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