"Rocky" - 1981 F250 Restoration

[taskswap]

Thanks Gary.

If I go messing with the stator wire, does that affect anything related to alternator upgrades? I havne't done that mod yet but plan to...

[Gary Lewis]

No, the stator wire isn't used elsewhere - other than wrapping around to the internal regulator.

[taskswap]

I may give it a shot. I'm not sure if my wire fell off or something new went wrong but I took Rocky out for a test drive last night to see how everything is running together. Headlights weren't working at all, but that tends to happen when you don't connect the power wire to your headlight relay harness, just in case any of you guys have the same issue.

The road test went as well as I expected. The steering is squirrely, but objectively it's better than it was before so the suspension work was worthwhile. I'll order the new steering box soon. There's still a ton of noise from the top cover of the T-18 and the shifter is still not very tight. I replaced the famous alignment pin already and that helped, but I suspect I just have a lot of wear in the forks. It's tolerable for now - I'll table it for a future "rebuild the tranny" day.

The biggest issue right now is parking brakes. It's been so long since I owned a stick that I forgot just how critical a system it is. You can't get out of the car with the engine running and since I park on a hill with the wheels chocked it's doubly hard to get out of my driveway - I have to start the truck, let it warm up, move it a foot up off the chocks, put it in reverse, turn it off, get out and remove the chocks, then get back in, and start it fast because now as soon as I'm on the clutch but the engine isn't started yet, it wants to roll (not much brake authority with the engine off).

So that's my next project but I have a new question/confusion. I ordered what was a "guaranteed fit" for brake shoes off Amazon, they should be here tomorrow. Apparently these are 12" x 3" shoes. Now I see listings here and elsewhere for 12" x 2-1/2" shoes and what's killing me is the "fit" selectors are ALSO guaranteeing those will fit as well. Since pulling the drums is quite a job I only want to do it once. Is there a way to tell which width I need from the outside, without pulling the drum?

[Gary Lewis]

The size should be shown on the outside of the drum.

As for rebuilding the tranny, might you consider a ZF5?  It'll take the kit from Tim Meyer to make it fit an M-Block, but Tim's kit works well.  (AMHIK)

[Gsmblue]

Pulling drums is a PITA no doubt. But it is definitely one of the easier tasks compared to all the work you have done!

[taskswap]

Yeah I've watched a few videos on it, it's definitely a doable job. But I don't really have sanitary conditions or storage for things like long grease covered axles for long periods of time, so I was hoping to make this a one-pass operation with everything I need on hand.

Then again, maybe this is an opportunity? While I have the drums off I suppose I could replace my rusty wheel studs. I ran a thread chaser on them but that can only do so much without changing the actual thread. I don't have an arbor press but I know a lot of times get lucky and are able to knock them out with just a 2lb sledge. Worth it or nah?

[Gary Lewis]

I changed studs using a press, but if I were you I'd put several nuts on a stud so it can't bend and smack the end one with the sledge.  If you get it to move then you can back off on the nuts.

And I installed the studs by whacking them to get them started and pulling them in with nuts and washers.

[taskswap]

Bit the bullet and pulled the axle. Couple not-so-good things.





First when I removed the axle it came out clean and dry. I definitely expected from others' videos that this would have a lot more oil on it. Then I found that some previous owner must have hacked on the axle nut with vice grips or something because it was very torn up.

I'm not sure the name for this thing but it was also locked in with a spike with two tabs on the end, driven into the locking groove. I'm trying to find this exact assembly in the manuals but from my pre-project research I expected this to be a standard nut rather than a nylon locknut, and a lock ring rather than what I'll call a clinch pin for lack of a better name.

No surprise when I pulled the bearing, it had a LOT of play and no grease at all. It was pretty burned up too. I'm trying to make out the exact part number but it looks like Tyson LH104949. Not sure if that's stock or aftermarket but either way new bearings are in my future.

That said I can't get the drum off. It moves out about an inch, enough that it doesn't feel like it's stuck on the shoes, then stops. I'm wondering if my inner bearing is damaged enough to be catching on the axle. Any thoughts on the "least destructive" option here? So far I havne't figured a good way to get my slide hammer or other pulllers attached but I can always buy something if there's an "easy way"...

[taskswap]

More updates, still not good. I got the hub off. I realized I had just enough room to get a pry bar in between the hub and the back plate and I carefully worked around until it popped free.

The parking brake isn't worked because the lever doesn't move at all. Neither does the adjuster. They're both rusted and jammed. One shoe is further out than the other probably for the same reason, and one of the shoes is even cracked, the corners fell out when I pulled the hub. 3" shoe so at least I got the right ones.

AFAICT the hub itself it OK. I don't have a micrometer wide enough to mic it but the inner surface is smooth and not gouged or rough. I'd say it's worth reusing. I was able to get one (the worst one) of the studs out pretty easily, by the way, so I'm definitely going to replace those. Unless somebody says boo I'm going to replace them with all right-hand thread studs. Those left-hand studs on the left rear wheel drive me bonkers!

The worst issue is the inner bearing basically fell apart. The rear seal is floating around on vacation, and there is a TON of play in the bearing itself with no lube to be seen. The area where the outer bearing was is dark brown from the burning, and the inner bearing is frozen on. To get it off I may have to cut off the outer race then put a torch on the inner.

That said, I'd love two bits of advice, even bad advice is more than I'm going on now:

1. Has anyone had any luck with a specific bearing kit? I'd like to not have to buy this stuff piecemeal but the number of options is making my head spin. Even narrowing the field would be super helpful.

2. The FSM and other guides are super light on precise lubrication details. Should I be greasing the spindle end of the axle shaft before reinstalling it? Or should I next be diving into my rear diff? I'm not sure if the diff itself has any mechanism where its oil can get to the shaft. Or even how much oil a splined shaft even needs in the first place. All the videos I saw (all three, LOL) always had oil spilling out the shaft when this part was removed. But I wasn't sure if that was because it was SUPPOSED to (a bit of lube shared by the diff) or because it just happens that way, some spillover, no big deal...

[Gary Lewis]

Well, while I know you feel this is a setback, in reality you are taking two steps forward and only one back.  So it is progress.  

I don't have a recommendation on a kit of bearings.  I had to buy piecemeal as well, but I checked numbers on Rock Auto's site.  Didn't buy from them as I got name brand bearings from Amazon for less, more quickly, and with far less hassle on returns.  But RA's catalog is excellent.

On the lube, I grease axle bearings before installing them.  My theory is that the oil will eventually melt the grease, but that there's nothing in the grease that will hurt the diff.  So until the oil gets there they are lubed.

But you should have had oil up there when you pulled it apart.  Have you checked the oil level in the diff?  I've never pulled one apart that didn't have oil everywhere.

And on the studs, I would certainly go with RH threads.  No one is installing LF threads anymore that I'm aware of, and they obviously aren't required or 99% of the left side wheels would be falling off.

[taskswap]

Thanks for the fast reply, Gary, I couldn't do this project without this forum! I'm definitely going to check the oil in the diff now.

I think I found a bearing kit that might work. They're just 2" ID and 2.25" ID roller bearings (Timken SET38 / Tyson 104949 is the outer) apparently but the kit is reasonably priced and includes the seal. (Needs 2 though.) It's here if anybody wants to take the same risk https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0078U8DIQ but I'll report back if this fits of course.

One more question. While I'm in here I will be replacing:
1. Brake cylinder
2. All the springs and the adjuster (I got a kit)
3. Wheel studs
4. Shoes
5. Bearings

My questions is, if it was you, and "I'd come this far..." what else would you replace? Am I missing anything obvious?

[Gary Lewis]

I used several "SetX" combo's in the front of both Dad's truck awa Big Blue and was happy.  But I don't remember the #'s.

I assume your parking brake cables are good?  Otherwise I think you have a good list.

[taskswap]

Good point. I don't know if they're bad or good but new ones are $14.95 so I went ahead and ordered a pair. Why not.

So on a whim just to see what was up I pulled the passenger side drum. Totally different experience. Got about a cup and a half of (black, but liquid) oil pouring out when I yanked the axle, the drum came off very easily and the bearings look good. I'll still replace them (I bought a full set for both sides) but now it raises a new question. If this oil mainly comes from the diff (that's my understanding - it gets slung out as you drive)... What would make my left side bone dry and my right well lubed?

[Gary Lewis]

With the axles out of the tube check for "stuff" in the tube blocking the oil.  For some reason that one side wasn't getting lubed.  But if the level was low it might only sling it in one direction.

[taskswap]

Want to see the most messed-up wheel stud?



Personally, I believe anybody that wants to get "decades" rather than "years" out of their car or truck should own a thread chaser in the pitch of their wheel studs. Every tire rotation, run that bad boy down there and it'll save you a LOT of grief 30 years later!

[Gary Lewis]

Wow!  That's bad!  And I agree that using a thread-chaser would help.  But I've not seen that kind of problems on studs around here.  It looks to me like that lug nut was loose and let the wheel work against the stud.

[taskswap]

You'd be right - if you didn't know I'd already run a tap down this stud. What happened to this one was it was just SO rusted that there was no hope the tap could follow the original "lead" of the thread. Since it's a cutting tool it just tried its best and cut new grooves. As I ran it down, it wandered off center to the right, so you can see from the photo where on the right side it was cutting the tips off the threads, and on the left it was making its own new threads.

I knew this was a risk and I did it anyway because I figured stud-replacement was in my future and wanted the data point for future reference. I'm sharing it here so other folks might learn - not so much from my "mistakes" (I did actually expect this to happen) but at least from my misfortunes? "One for all..."

[Gary Lewis]

Well, that makes sense.  So that does strongly support cleaning the threads frequently.  

[taskswap]

It also makes me a fan of closed-end wheel nuts. I know some people say they can trap moisture in but I've never seen damage like this except with open-end ones.

Changing topics, I'm brainstorming power steering. Beyond the steering box would you guys replace the steering shaft as well? I've seen good comments online about this one https://www.summitracing.com/parts/brg-000985 and was wondering if it's worth doing all at once...

[Gary Lewis]

All I run are closed-end nuts, so that might explain why I’ve not seen that problem.

And I do like that steering shaft, although it is very expensive. Jim/ArdWrknTrk posted on here how he made one like that for something like $35.