Site Organization Thoughts

[Gary Lewis]

I know we had some discussion about this in the recent New Document Going On The Site - Engine & Emission Diagnosis thread, but I think we need a thread with a more fitting title to continue that discussion.

Scott had suggested that we have whole documents together in one place, like we've done with the new 1986 Engine & Emissions Diagnosis book. (Which actually means we'd have a page for each section, not everything on one page.) However, we already have a number of factory service manual (FSS) sections scattered all over the site, so to put them all in one place would take considerable work - on my part and I'm the only one doing it.

So, I have a suggestion on which I'd like your thoughts. That is to have a page called something like "1985 Factory Service Manual" and on that page we'd have the Contents page of the '85 FSS. And the Contents would have hyperlinks to each of the sections, as shown below for the '86 Engine & Emissions Diagnosis book. But, a downside of this is that many of the FSS sections are in tabs on the page to which the link would take you, so instead of the FSS section popping up when you click the link you'd then have to click on the Instructions or FSS Section tab.

Before you answer look in the menu at how the 1986 Engine & Emissions Diagnosis book comes up. (Documentation/Emissions/1986 Engine & Emissions Diagnosis) See the loooooong list of sub-pages to the main page? Think of how many there would be for an FSS. Or, maybe we'd have to put the sub-sections in and have pages below them?

Thoughts, please. We need better organization but I want to get everyone's opinion before we start down this pike.

[Lima Delta]

Gary,
I appreciate that you want to have a well organized site here, and I'm am sure there are better ways to organize things. But considering, as you pointed out, how much work it is to reorganize and that you are the only one doing it, I would just like to say that I think you should only put as much time/energy in as you want. I'm sure there are lots of other things you might do with the man-hours required to overcome the path dependency of this site's existing system.

If things are less than ideally organized, well, the rest of us should be able to suck it up and take the extra time to find what we're looking for. Just having access to this diagnosis manual is more than I had before, regardless of how I have to go about getting at it.

Just my $0.02.

Cheers!

[Gary Lewis]

Lucas - Thanks, and welcome.  Glad it is helping.

However, I saw a comment on FB the other day that said "I can't find anything on that site", so that got me worried.  And thinking about how we could do it better.  Then the diagnosis book caused a discussion, and here we are.

But, as I think about it, there might not be all that much work to do to have one place for the FSM's to reside.  There is no reason the various sections of the FSM can't continue to be embedded on tabs on the appropriate pages.  For instance, the page at Documentation/Driveline/4WD FRONT HUBS & ROTORS has that FSM section embedded on the Instructions tab.  So why not leave it there and also put it on the appropriate page w/in the FSM?  In other words, I don't have to take things off pages or tabs, but I can slowly start building up an additional set of pages.

Tell you what, I'm at a bit of burnout on working on Big Blue at the moment, so I'll give this a go this afternoon after church.  I'll scan in the Contents pages of the '85 FSM and start creating the massive number of pages that will be needed to house that book.  And on the pages that purport to have the content I've already scanned in, I'll embed that content and create a link to it on the Contents page.

Which brings me to a completely different question: Where do we put these documents, like the FSM's, diagnosis, etc?

Currently we have the Literature section (Documentation/Literature/...) but those pages are arranged by year.  But things like FSS span pretty much all the years, even though the one being discussed is '85.

Thoughts, please!

[FuzzFace2]

Which brings me to a completely different question: Where do we put these documents, like the FSM's, diagnosis, etc?

Currently we have the Literature section (Documentation/Literature/...) but those pages are arranged by year.  But things like FSS span pretty much all the years, even though the one being discussed is '85.

Thoughts, please!

I have not looked at any of this as I have not really needed it as someone posted what I needed information on but could it be done in the FSM way and when it comes to something that covers multi years like FSS have a link that would direct the person to the "all year" information?

This way the information would only need to be posted 1 time and links made with in each year to point to it.
There could a small a note* put on the FSM & FSS pages saying such "*spans multi years".
Dave ----

[Gary Lewis]

Dave - I'm not sure how to incorporate your suggestion.  Basically everything in the FSM should apply to all years save for some things like the YFA carb as it wasn't used in all years.  So I'm not sure we need to say anything.  Let's wait and see.

And, for y'all to see, we now have the first three sections of the '85 manual on the site.  PLEASE go check it out to see what you think.  It is in the top level menu and should be easily seen, above.

But here are some questions and comments I'd like you to consider:

Location: Where should we put it?  Right now we have a Literature section and a Reference section.
 Do we need another?  (I hope not.)  Can it go in Literature?

Index: If you click on the top level, meaning 1985 Truck Shop Manual, you'll get Ford's wonky index.
 (Wonky because it is not in numeric order.)  I've put some hyperlinks in there, but are they necessary?
 Why not just use the menu on the site instead?

Levels: I've put non-clickable headers in the menu, like "Section 11 - Wheels & Tires", that pop out a sub menu when you hover over them.  But some of you don't hover, so does that work for you?  Jim?Can you see the lower-level things like General Wheel & Tire Service?

Multiple Places: The documents that show up in Brakes are also embedded on the page at Documentation/Brakes.  But that should not be a problem.  It is the same info, but two different instances of it.

Thoughts, please.

[grumpin]

Maybe I’m not aware of how you can do this, can you have a manuals section or tab in documentation?

[Gary Lewis]

We can have a Manuals section.  But is a manual not "literature"?

I'm not trying to be difficult, I'm just wanting to come up with a clean, logical solution.

[FuzzFace2]

Gary Lewis wrote

We can have a Manuals section.  But is a manual not "literature"?

I'm not trying to be difficult, I'm just wanting to come up with a clean, logical solution.

I see "literature" as sales brochures, papers on tires that were in the glove box when new or adds from magazines and the like.

owners manuals would be in with the shop manuals, it has manual on it no?

Now where dose the dealer acc. sheets and  towing pamphlet go?
I think Literature.
Dave ----

[Gary Lewis]

So you are voting for a Manuals section, Dave?  

(IOW, you'd vote the same as Dane????    )

[Lima Delta]

If it would be relatively straight-forward to do, IMO a "manuals" section would be great.

[FuzzFace2]

Gary Lewis wrote

So you are voting for a Manuals section, Dave?  

(IOW, you'd vote the same as Dane????    )

I think yes for manuals

Would this be a tab in documents with Lit. or its own tab up front along with Lit.?
I think what may be happening is things get to deep in some area and we dont "drill down" far enough to find what we need.

So if we had say Documents as a main tab type deal and when in that area had a tab for Manuals and 1 for Lit. I think would be easier.
I want to know how to do something or tq values then go to Manuals.
Anything else to the Lit. area.
Dave ----

[Gary Lewis]

I think we need to think through this "literature" vs "manuals" thing. To me a manual is a piece of literature. Yes, brochures are literature and aren't manuals. But EVTM's and FSM can be considered literature. So manuals are a sub-set of literature.

On that score, I've embedded below the spreadsheet from the page at Documentation/Literature that shows what literature I have and what is on the site. And it says we have "owner's guides", which is what Ford calls the owner's manuals. And we have EVTM's. And service guides. And engine & emission diagnosis manuals. And.....

But currently we have the Literature section organized by year, which doesn't make much sense if you are looking for manuals. And while you can click on the Literature page and see that spreadsheet and then click on the On Site links to be taken to the document, you can also just over over Literature in the menu and see the years show up. And if you click on a year in the menu you'll be taken to a page with thumbnails of the documents, on which you can click to go to them.

But, we could also categorize them by type, such as owner's manual; FSM; EVTM; etc. So, it could look like:

Literature: Factory Shop Manuals Owner's Manuals Engine & Emission Diagnostic Manuals Brochures Etc

Would that be better than sorting by year?

[FuzzFace2]

Now that works for me

Everything is on 1 page so you can see what is available and then you can click what you want (I did not try to click but it looks like it would get me to that item) to get to that item.
Dave ----

[Gary Lewis]

FuzzFace2 wrote

Now that works for me

Everything is on 1 page so you can see what is available and then you can click what you want (I did not try to click but it looks like it would get me to that item) to get to that item.
Dave ----

Dave - Let me make sure I understand what "that" is, the thing which works for you.  I think you mean the spreadsheet.  Right?

Also, what if it was "Literature & Manuals"?

And, did you know the spreadsheet was there?  Some people never click on Literature and just hover over it to see the pop-out sub-menu.  Perhaps we should do away with the pop-out sub-menu and force everyone to click on Literature and then click on the link.  There would actually be the same number of clicks - two.

Thoughts, y'all?

[rcarlisle]

Gary Lewis wrote

Lucas - Thanks, and welcome.  Glad it is helping.

However, I saw a comment on FB the other day that said "I can't find anything on that site", so that got me worried.  And thinking about how we could do it better.  Then the diagnosis book caused a discussion, and here we are.

Thoughts, please!

I say as Lucas did - do it as you see fit - this is your baby, your sandbox.   There will be a lot of guests that pass through looking for an answer and may never come back, much less become active.   I may or may not be here for a long time myself, but that's me - I don't trade and sell very much.

Folks from FB don't always take the time to really look - look how many posts you see in the 3 bullnose groups where folks can't find the simplest of items or answers.  And I see a constant parade of folks there selling their trucks because it did something seemingly unexpected (these are 30-40 yr old trucks afterall).  

I agree that sometimes I don't find things as quickly as I might like, but I can usually find it.   But I also take time to be a member here and will ask.   This is not the quickest place to pose a question and I am also fine with that.  

I have no suggestions on way to do it differently as there is so much to do that if you change one thing, it may force a change in other places.

Thanks for all you do for this site and all of us.  I consider the membership here to be the true fans and loyalists.  

[Gary Lewis]

Thanks, Randy.  I appreciate your support.

However, if the organization of the site is left up to me then it may not work for a lot of people.  So I'm looking for input on what others think would work.  Not everything suggested will be possible, but some suggestions might be just what we need.

Suggestions, please, folks!  I might push back if I can't do it or don't know how to do it, but I really need other people's views.  

[grumpin]

I like the spreadsheet. I did not know or remember to click again on literature to get to the spreadsheet.

I think Literature and Manuals is good also. I also think of literature like Dave said, brochures, dealer items etc.

I understand your concern about comments of not being able to find things on the site. And I like Randy’s points on that.

Some people won’t be happy even if you show them where everything is and then do it for them.

[85lebaront2]

Gary, I did a quick check. looks good! 1986 EVTM, bingo, there it was. I will look and see which emission diagnostic manuals I have (I know 1986 is here) but I grabbed a bunch of the big loose leaf ones on eBay. I know some of them are later than 1986, but some of it might be useful for someone who is installing a later engine and controls.

Maybe as you populate this area, add the "pinouts" spreadsheet. I think I can give you the connector layout for most of them if it isn't in the emission diagnostic manuals.

[Gary Lewis]

Ok, I've made the top page "Literature & Manuals".  And I've hidden everything below that, so while the pages are still there the way to get to them is via the spreadsheet.

But speaking of the spreadsheet, you may have missed that there are two tabs.  One is supposedly for Ford annual publications and the other for Misc things.  But I suspect many will miss the tab for Misc, so wouldn't it be better to just put everything on one tab?

Oh, and I've added the Steering section to the '85 FSM.  I'd already scanned it in with those sections used elsewhere, so added them to the FSM w/o scanning.  I have other such sections and will add them as and when time allows.

Bill - Got your documents today and will put them in the queue.

[rcarlisle]

Gary Lewis wrote

I think we need to think through this "literature" vs "manuals" thing.  To me a manual is a piece of literature.  Yes, brochures are literature and aren't manuals.  But EVTM's and FSM can be considered literature.  So manuals are a sub-set of literature.
<p></p>
On that score, I've embedded below the spreadsheet from the page at Documentation/Literature that shows what literature I have and what is on the site.  And it says we have "owner's guides", which is what Ford calls the owner's manuals.  And we have EVTM's.  And service guides.  And engine & emission diagnosis manuals.  And.....
<p></p>
But currently we have the Literature section organized by year, which doesn't make much sense if you are looking for manuals.  And while you can click on the Literature page and see that spreadsheet and then click on the On Site links to be taken to the document, you can also just over over Literature in the menu and see the years show up.  And if you click on a year in the menu you'll be taken to a page with thumbnails of the documents, on which you can click to go to them.
<p></p>
But, we could also categorize them by type, such as owner's manual; FSM; EVTM; etc.  So, it could look like:
<p></p>
Literature:
        Factory Shop Manuals
        Owner's Manuals
        Engine & Emission Diagnostic Manuals
        Brochures
        Etc
<p></p>
Would that be better than sorting by year?
<p></p>
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I don't remember seeing the link to this page previously in this discussion, but I LIKE this layout.  I can scroll through and see all the docs available from my 81.   I have used this and referred others to it on FB.