Site Organization Thoughts

[Gary Lewis]

Randy - Glad it works for you.  It has actually been there all along, but since when you hovered over the "Literature" menu item the sub-menu popped out you didn't know you had to click on the "Literature" menu item to get to it.  But now that the sub-menu items are hidden you realize you have to click on it.

It is kind of fiddly to maintain as when I add something to the site I have to remember to add it to the spreadsheet.  But it works pretty nicely for the user as you can see everything in one go, whether by year or by topic.

[Gary Lewis]

Houston, we have a minor problem.  Let me explain.

Listing things in a table (spreadsheet) that way works nicely for things that are on one page.  But it really doesn't work well for things that are on multiple pages, like the '85 FSM.  I have put a link to the '85 FSM in the spreadsheet, but that just takes you to the index with its hyperlinks instead of getting you the fancy menu/sub-menu approach.

So we need to think about this more.  Perhaps it needs to look something like this in the menu:

Literature & Manuals (non-clickable page, meaning there is nothing on it)
    Index
    EVTM's
        1981 EVTM
        1985 EVTM
        1986 EVTM
    Factory Shop Manuals
        1985 FSM
            Identification Codes
            Wheels & Tires
            etc
    Brochures
        1980 Brochures & Advertisements
            Bronco Brochure
            etc
        1981 Brochures & Advertisements
            etc

Thoughts, please!  This is a significant enough of a change that I don't want to undertake w/o lots of thinking and discussion.

[rcarlisle]

Ok, for me, I'm not seeing the problem yet.  I openend the Literature page in a new tab.  Takes me to page with spreadsheet.   From there I can click to next page, e.g. the 1985 EVTM page with headings to find what I need.  Maybe I'm just used to it, but then it seems like I click where I need to and it goes.  

I guess I'm not the person to help with this.   Sometimes, things seem a bit tough to find, but any website/forum can be that way.  

I'll follow along, but think I should probably just watch to see what changes.

And this is working well on my desktop PC.   I don't do well on my phone on here.  HAven't tried it much on my 10" tablet.  

[Gary Lewis]

Randy - Let me try to explain differently.  I've changed things around a lot so you'll have to refresh your browser's page.

Now the Literature & Manuals page is not clickable.  There's nothing on it, so if you hover over it the sub-menus pop out.  And there's now a page called Index & Contents that has the table.

So if you go to that and click on the link to the 1985 FSM you'll be taken to the Contents page of that document.  But, if you hover over Factory Shop Manuals and then 1985 Truck Shop Manual you'll see the popout sub-menu that shows the sections of the manual.

In other words, there are two ways to get there, but to me it is cleaner to see the items in the menu.

QUESTION, Y'ALL: What do you think of this new approach?  Note that 1980 is the only year I've let you see the sub-menus with the literature under it, but I can do that with the others as well if we like this approach.

[kramttocs]

This is a tough one.

I like the "Literature & Manuals" label.

I think this would be my preference:

Literature & Manuals
--1980
----FSM
-------Section A
-------Section B
----EVTM
-------Section A
-------Section B
----Brochure 1
----Brochure 2
----etc
--1981
----FSM
-------Section A
-------Section B
----EVTM
-------Section A
-------Section B
----Brochure 1
----Brochure 2
----etc

The part I don't care for is having child items that are separated by year like "1980 Literature" directly under that L&M menu but then have them also labeled with years under FSM like "1985 Shop Manual". If it's going to be split by years, which FSMs and EVTMs will be unless there is only ever one uploaded, I would have everything that can be placed under a year, done so.

That just what works for me from an organization standpoint. The conflict with that is that I am always going to Electrical > EVTM and that makes sense to me but maybe the next person on the site would automatically go to L&M for the EVTM and never think to go to Electrical.

So back to the wall, I'd vote to put any document that Ford put out with a single YEAR on it would go under L&M > YEAR as seen in the mockup above.

[Gary Lewis]

Scott - What you say makes sense.  The only concern I have is that people will know to look in 1985 for that FSM, or 1986 for that Engine/Emission Diagnosis manual.  

As for the EVTM, we wouldn't have to put it in Literature & Documents.  Just leave it in Electrical.  Or, we could put two of them in.  Doesn't cost any more.

Now, back to my work in a small area with little light and hot tools...  

[kramttocs]

Ugh on that work  As a pleasant side effect of lining the work area/footwell with foil, it did help with the light some.

I can get behind that concern. I would say though that if they have made it to the L&M section, seeing the years should be intuitive enough.

[Gary Lewis]

The small work area is all buttoned up.  

As for the manuals, the fact that it now says "& Manuals" should clue them in.  And if they click on the Index page they'll be greeted with a by-year breakdown.  Ok, I'm good with that.  I'll do more editing in a bit and we'll see how we like it.

[kramttocs]

And hopefully this is the last time you have to work down there

Looking forward to seeing how the menu looks real world and what the feedback is on it (keep or keep thinking).

I'll admit that I am looking at it primarily from the organization standpoint when referring to the FSM. I like seeing the relevant sections of the FSM on various pages but if I am really trying to digest it, I am still the hardcopy kind.
So take that into consideration on my input on this.

[Gary Lewis]

Well, the small, dark workspace job is done.  

Anyway, go check out the menu under Literature & Manuals now.  I think everything but the EVTM's is in there, and I'm not quite ready to do that yet as I'm still thinking about that.

But I moved the Engine/Emissions Diagnosis manuals in there as well as the '85 FSM.  And, I un-hid all of the many pages of documentation that were previously available only via the Index table or the annual pages that have icons that tie to them.

[ctubutis]

There is no one thing you can do that will make everybody happy, it simply cannot be done. ;)

[kramttocs]

Hmm, I don't know after trying it out - that gets pretty nested even when using a computer and mouse

[grumpin]

I just looked around a bit. I like being able to go to the years and pick what you want.

I’m on my iPad which sometimes can be... interesting! But, working good so far.

[kramttocs]

Good point Dane - I just tried it on my phone (Chrome on Android) and it's not bad at all to drill down to the various Engine/Emissions sections

[Gary Lewis]

Ok guys, let's let this sit for a bit and take comments.

Chris - You are right, nothing will satisfy everyone.  But if we get a number of the regulars saying they like it then I think we have achieved "good enough".

Dane and Scott - Glad it is working on the mobile devices.

[Gary Lewis]

Well, this is getting out of hand.  Woke up in the middle of the night thinking about it and when I got up I had to go get the books and think through things.  And I've come to two questions I'd like y'all to answer:

FSM By Book?  Those of you who have physical copies of the FSM know there are three books: A=Body, Chassis, & Electrical; B=Engine; C=Pre-Delivery Lubrication & Maintenance.  I'm planning to break ours up that way as well, but want your input.

The issue is that the three books together are massive.  Book A has 24 sections & 138 sub-sections, with each sub-section being a page on the site and in the menu.  B has 9 sections and 30 sub-sections.  And C has only 1 section but 21 sub-sections.  So unless we break it up by book the menu is going to be extremely long, like 33 entries long, and probably unusable.  


By Year Or By Subject? We now have everything categorized by year.  But if you want to find information on a specific thing from the FSM and you don't know that our one and only, for a while, FSM is in the 1985 section how do you do that?

What if instead we did it first by type of literature and then by year, like this:

Literature & Manuals:
    Advertisements
        1980 Brochures
        1981 Brochures
            ...
        1986 Brochures
    Brochures
        1980 Brochures
        1981 Brochures
            ...
        1986 Brochures
    Factory Service Manuals
        1985 FSM
    Etc
   

[grumpin]

I like both your thoughts. By the book and yearly as you stated.

[Gary Lewis]

Dane - Thanks.  I've been waiting to get other input before I responded, but it doesn't look like there will be others.

But, I know that John/Machspeed is going to call me this afternoon about this.  So after that, assuming he agrees and others don't have a better idea, I'll get started rearranging the Literature & Manuals section.

And the plan is to make the first cut by topic and the second by year.

[kramttocs]

Been watching to see other input as well but that approach sounds like a good plan to me.

[Gary Lewis]

Thanks, Scott.  But I just had an excellent conversation with John/Machspeed regarding this.  And here's the plan:

Manuals & Literature: He recommended we change from Literature & Manuals to Manuals & Literature.

Index & Contents: The table is "the thing" and gives a wonderful overview of what is on the site.
 So why have the pop-out menus?  So, I'm going to "hide" the years and move the Contents & Index to the Manuals & Literature page.  That means the only page will be the main, Manuals & Literature, page with the Index & Contents on it and you'll find everything from there.

Work: This will make it much easier for me.  For instance, we already have links to the EVTM's in the Index & Contents table, and this way I don't have anything to do there.  Otherwise, if we had everything in the Manuals & Literature section I'd have to have the EVTM's in there as well as the Electrical section.

I hope this works for you, but I'm going to give it a try.

Thanks, John.