Shop Crane With Engine Stand

[Gary Lewis]

So if the stand were on the other way 'round the engine wouldn't have to be swiveled and it would work fine?

[reamer]

Hmmm,,, don't see why not..  But I think it may be designed to center the weight of the engine on the legs in this configuration?
Easy front access for timing chain, fuel pump, water pump this way too.

[FuzzFace2]

reamer wrote

Hmmm,,, don't see why not..  But I think it may be designed to center the weight of the engine on the legs in this configuration?
Easy front access for timing chain, fuel pump, water pump this way too.

And you would not need to step over the crane legs to work on the front.
I also think even making the arm short and folded down it will nail you in the back a few times till you wind out removing the arm.

Then what do you do when you have a 2nd project you need to pull the motor on or support say a frame and you got this motor on the crane or need a 2nd motor stand?
Don't tell me you have not needed more than 1 stand as I had 2 stands in a vary small 1 car garage before I moved to NC?

FYI when I got home with the NP435 transmission there was no way I was going to lift it out of my truck myself guess what I used? Yep the crane that did not have a motor on it  
Dave ----

[swampedout]

Gary, if you know anything about me by now, Im cheap and love figuring out ways to build stuff myself.
But that combo is pretty enticing, especially at the price its selling for right now.
I might have to think about this one. I do like youre idea of making a swivel upgrade or switching the stand position.

[ArdWrknTrk]

I'm of a mind that anything that tries to be more than one thing is not only a compromise but a hassle to use.

I've never considered a combination lift/stand but it looks awful unwieldy.
What's the advantage, other than the feet/front casters don't interfere?

[reamer]

The engine stand is removeable, and the long legs fold up for storage.

[ArdWrknTrk]

Yeah, I get that.

But it looks like 6' long, and you're stuck with the whole thing if you have an engine on it.

Usually, when I have an engine on a stand I'm either spinning it around while I have parts laid out on the bench, or it's pushed off into a corner awaiting parts or the machine shop to finish heads (or something)

I don't want ALL of that thing in my way.

But whoever came up with the idea certainly never worked in a tight shop or tripped over a crane.

[ArdWrknTrk]

Dave makes a good point too.

How do you swap engines if your newly built one is attached to your engine hoist?

[Gary Lewis]

Lots of good points, guys.  And I agree that a combo unit is rarely as good as two dedicated units.  In this case the overall length while using the engine stand would be huge.  And getting the pulled engine off and onto a stand so a new engine can be installed is the same issue as I have now.

Let me say that another way: I've rarely pulled an engine, put it on a stand, worked on it, and put it back in.  The vast majority of the time I've ended up sending the engine to a machine shop or just replaced it.  So this combo really doesn't solve the problem I have where the legs of the shop crane and engine stand need to be in the same spot at the same time.

Y'all are free to continuing discussing it, but you've helped me make up my mind.  This is not the way I want to go as it doesn't solve my problem.  However, could you suggest ways to solve that problem?

[Ford F834]

I may be alone in this... but an IDI cylinder head weighs 105 lbs. when removing and replacing the heads, it is helpful to be able to lower it gently onto the new gaskets with a shop crane and the block on a stand. I’m thinking it would not be possible to move and position it as needed if the stand were on the legs of the crane. Perhaps with a long chain and a lot of lift it would still have enough swing. The legs of the light duty T frame stands do not interfere with a crane, but the heavy duty H frame stands fight legs with the crane. My only thoughts on a solution are blocks or large wheels on the stand that allow the crane legs to pass underneath.

[Gary Lewis]

Interesting thought.  Tall wheels or wheels with blocks might get the engine stand above the shop crane's legs and solve the problem.  

[ArdWrknTrk]

I think a combination of both.
Maybe put the engine stand's wheels or the top chord of the box.

[kramttocs]

I don't have a solution but had to deal with this also.

My cherry picker is an old Carolina 3 ton unit that when extended (both legs and boom) is easily wide enough for the HD stand to fit into but none of that matters when the extended legs can't get past the tires of the truck (and straddling one wheel sideways doesn't work either).
Once I had the truck rolled away I lowered the engine onto a couple of tires to take the pressure off the picker. That allowed me to extend the legs and boom far enough to clear the stand.

Someone may have to draw what is being proposed with modifying the stand via wheels or blocks. I am not picturing how that wouldn't compromise safety but my mental image may be all wrong for what you guys are thinking. I just know that in order to clear the legs of my picker the stand would have to have huge wheels on it. I haven't compared the legs of mine vs any others to know what the normal height is.

Edit: cleared up my statement of safety concern

[FuzzFace2]

Ok now I under stand what Gary is saying, it's been awhile since I used the picker & my HD 4 wheel stand and had this issue.

When I had the 300 on the stand for new gaskets I used my light duty stand (3 wheel) so did not have this issue.

So the issue is with the picker not the stand so much.
What if the picker had a "H" base where the stand could fit in between.
On the Y/H type because the stand hits the Y as it get closer to the base is where the issue is you would not have that with an H base picker.
It could still be made to fold up for storage.
Dave ----

[Gary Lewis]

Dave - I'm not ready to say it is the picker or the stand.  It is just an incompatibility of the two.  My shop crane has angled legs, making it of the V variety.  And the stand is a K.  So they don't play well together as the K doesn't go far enough into the V to let the boom get to it.

Scott - I think rather than draw it I need to demonstrate it.  And test it.  But not until I get Big Blue motivating again as I don't want to take the time and I don't have the space.

However, you may be thinking better than I am.  As I contemplate the tall-wheel scenario I'm not seeing that working if the tall wheels are on the stand.  IIRC the stand's legs have to go inside the crane's legs, and the only way tall wheels would work is if they were on the crane and the stand went under the crane's legs.  But, the crane already sometimes hits the front axle on an F150 or Bronco, so I can't go higher with it.

That gets me back to Dave's suggestion of the crane being an H, with the legs wide enough to let the stand come in, but not so wide that they hit the inside of the tires.  Most track width is fairly standard so I could figure out what would work there, and then see if my stand would fit inside of legs set that far out.  If so, that might be a reasonable approach.  If not....

However, I'm not ready to rebuild my shop crane.  

[kramttocs]

I agree -the H style is the only solution to this I know of. Interestingly I've seen a number of homemade H ones(usually with tongues and and axle) but don't think I've seen any manufactured ones.

[Gary Lewis]

It looks like the inside of Big Blue's tires are ~60" apart.  But the outside of the engine stand is 34".  So if the H were at least 36" apart on the inside it would work.  And since each leg is 3" that would mean the outside would be at least 42" across.

Given that, I could rebuild the shop crane in an H, and might make the outside of the legs be 48" apart.  That would make it usable on smaller vehicles and yet allow max stability.

Or, I might be able to make the H adjustable width-wise.  Not sure that would be very helpful, but it would allow for minimum storage space.  And in any case the legs would still fold up.

[kramttocs]

48 sounds smart. I wouldn't bother with the width adjustability of the main legs. Just add some outriggers that are adjustable. Less awkward to try and move.

[Gary Lewis]

I currently have outriggers on the back on which the rear wheels ride, and they can be widened.  But I can't imagine needing them set wider than 48".  In fact, I'm not sure they can currently go wider than 48".

[FuzzFace2]

kramttocs wrote

I agree -the H style is the only solution to this I know of. Interestingly I've seen a number of homemade H ones(usually with tongues and and axle) but don't think I've seen any manufactured ones.

A buddy had one at his station and why I thought of it.
The wheels that went under the car or truck did not swivel they were steel with a nut & bolt thru the out rigger.

This did not fold up so he would push it out of the bays along with some other equipment when he opened up and push it back in a closing time. Not fun when it been snowing all day to push that stuff back in
This would have been back in the 80's so I don't know if they had folding cranes back then?
Dave ----