Planning For Big Blue's Trip To Ouray

[grumpin]

Soldering in the wind is difficult. I’d go with wire nuts or assortments of butt splices etc. as Jim mentioned.

[ArdWrknTrk]

There are those shrink connectors with solder inside.  
But nobody wants to deal with a torch or lighter on the side of the road (or trail)

I have my Channel lock combination tool. Snip, strip, insulated and bare crimping pliers.

The problem with most assortments is that they are 50% or more ring terminals.
When you likely need butts, spades, etc to affect a repair.

[Bruce moose4x4]

I have used these for years, even though they are the pinch type. They are filled with dielectric silicone. They work great in a pinch, just put wire in and squeeze.

https://www.oreillyauto.com/detail/c/standard-ignition/standard-ignition-wire-terminal-clip/std0/stp525?q=stp525&pos=0

Standard also has some twist connectors with silicone  STP 464---STP 466---STP  467

[Nothing Special]

Gary Lewis wrote

....  Having said that, I am wondering about taking wire nuts....

Thoughts?

As has been said, crimp connectors or soldering is the "right" way to do it.

Personally, if I wasn't going to take the time on the trail (or more accurately, since I wasn't going to bring the tools on the trail) I'd just go with a roll of electrical tape before I messed with wire nuts.  Strip the ends, twist them together and tape over it until you can get back to a place to do it right.  A roll of tape doesn't take up as much room as an assortment of wire nuts, and it has a lot of other uses.  Plus I've never felt great about how wire nuts work on the stranded wire used in vehicles.  I like using them a lot better with the solid single strand you have in house wiring.

[ArdWrknTrk]

Wire nuts were meant to be used with solid wire or thick strands. Not with automotive harness.

Electrical tape won't get you a terminal if you need it.
A box of crimps is the size of a paperback (remember those?)
Just as fast as tape, more secure, more adaptations.

[Gary Lewis]

Guys - Thanks for all of the ideas.  I really appreciate them.  But I've been playing with the TEST forum all day and haven't had time to process all of them.  I will get back to them soon, but I'm pushing hard to get our new "home" sorted out.

[Gary Lewis]

Ok guys, time for an update.  (Not playing on the TEST forum as much today.)

Got an email back from one of my nephews, who has done a lot of offroading on his RZR as well as spent time around Ouray.  His suggestions in addition to things I already had were:

Tire Repair: BLACK JACK TIRE REPAIR Truck Repair Kit w/ 35 Rep.  His brother, who has done similar offroading, suggested that kit and it has worked extremely well for both of them.

Wire Connectors: Wago 222-413 LEVER-NUTS 3 Conductor Compact Connectors 10 PK.  He's used them on everything from little bitty stranded stuff to solid wire and loves them.  So for $6.15 I thought I'd give them a try.

Window Cleaner: Said the windshield will get dirty, so I'll stick some in as well as some white paper towels.

Cargo Bar: Said that HF has a good one that allows you to secure a tote, gas can, etc.  Not sure which one he had in mind but I'm checking into it.  This one appears to be kind of long.

Altitude Meds:  Said he got sick in Lake City on his recent trip, so I guess I'd better either get some meds or stay out of Lake City?  

Marker: An antenna or some such on a magnet to put on the front bumper, allowing you to see where it is.  Makes getting into tight places a lot easier.

Gorilla Tape: I have some and will put it in.

[ArdWrknTrk]

If you bring window cleaner be sure to bring a long handle squeegee.
Big Blue is tall and you won't reach.

I'm sure it is more dust, than mud like we have here.

Sounds like that back gate would have been handy, without compromising departure angle.

[Gary Lewis]

Jim - I think you underestimate me.  I used to be every bit of 6', but with a wingspan approaching that of Michael Phelps.    I'm sure I'm a bit shorter than I used to be, but I can still clean the windshield by standing on the step bars.  

As for the "back gate", which I think of as the rear bumper with a spare tire carrier, yes it certainly would be handy.  Maybe next year.

And having gotten a lot of the "to take" stuff nailed down I'm now working on the tuning for Big Blue.  And I'm going to tag Bill with this, not because he's the only one that knows, but since he did this for a living...

My first question is how to get a stuck main jet out of an AFB?  I have a screwdriver that is a perfect fit and I got the PS jet out, but the DS jet isn't moving.  I'm sure the answer is going to be to use a screw extractor w/a left hand thread, but that means I'm buying a new .110" jet.  Anyone have any tricks?

Next is the jetting I want to use.  We are at about 800' of elevation here in Skiatook, but Ouray is at 7,800 and we'll be going over Red Mountain Pass which is 11,000'.  Edelbrock's tuning guide says to 'use the rule of: “2% leaner per 1500 feet”', so maybe I should jet for 8,300' (5*1500 = 7500, and add 800 = 8300).  That would mean I'd want to be about 10% leaner than what I have.  Or should I go for 10,000'?

The chart below is out of the tuning guide and shows: green = current jetting; blue = proposed jetting of ~10% leaner; red = 12% leaner, which would be about right for 10,000 feet.



Then I have to think through what jetting I have or can buy.  You can see at the bottom of the snag above it says "jet and rod combinations shown on the following page".  Here's that page, with the colors being the same: green = current jetting; blue for 8,300 feet, and red for 10,000 feet.




Thoughts, y'all?

[ArdWrknTrk]

I don't underestimate you.
I guess I'm overestimating Big Blue.  

I would jet for Telluride (#5)
You're only going over the pass, not driving around off-road there.

If I know Bill, he'll tell you to go with EFI and it will adjust itself on the fly wherever you are.....  
And he's right.

Do you have a small impact, or one of those old school whack-it-with-a-hammer impact driver's?
That and a drop of MMO would be my first step to getting the jet out.

[Gary Lewis]

Yes, I'm sure he will.    (The title of that smiley is "Thinking", but it looks like rolling your eyes to me.  )

I do have a small impact.  And I'm sure I have a screwdriver bit that will fit the jets, which will be 1/4" drive.  So that would work nicely.  But I'm short on MMO so will use PBB.  

I think I'll go back out, mop out the gas in the bowl, and give it some PBB to penetrate tonight.  Maybe it'll come out with the impact tomorrow.

Thanks.

[ArdWrknTrk]

I didn't put it next to you....

It means to show I need to reconsider my view of Big Blue.

My truck is deliberately low.
I don't like climbing in to the cab or hefting tools and material into the bed.

Be careful with PB on pot metal and brass.
It doesn't like zinc any more than diesel does.
I'm pretty sure it will be fine overnight. Just something to keep in mind.

[Gary Lewis]

Ok, I'll be careful with PBB.  I'll wipe it out in the morn, hopefully after getting the jet out.  And then clean it with brake cleaner.

Another question: What do you think of using a dab of Loctite 56747 PST on the jet's threads?

On what elevation to jet for, we will be doing a number of passes on trails.  For instance, Ophir pass is at 11,789'.  Black Bear is at 12,840.  And Imogene is at 13,114.  So while we won't be rock crawling, we'll be "up there" many times.

[ArdWrknTrk]

I don't like the idea of any 'goop' inside a carb.
While you know it is intended for refineries and chemical plants, what isn't there can't ever cause a problem.

I doubt there's any reason for thread sealant.
I'm sure bill will weigh in when he gets here.

Those are my thoughts.

[Gary Lewis]

I'm not thinking of it as sealant, but more as lubricant.  It is for dissimilar metals and these brass jets sure didn't want to come out of that aluminum carb.  So when I get them out I was wondering about using something that would help remove them in the future.

[Nothing Special]

A few random thoughts (semi-)connected to the posts since I was last here...

Altitude meds:  Back in one of the threads we had going in 2018 or so I talked about acclimating to the elevation.  I've never tried meds, but that might not be a bad idea.  I've also never tried the canned oxygen I mentioned back then, but that might be another not bad idea.  I (and others I've been with) have had some issues that were likely due to altitude.  But with some minimal acclimation it never wrecked a trip.

And as I mentioned in the earlier thread, drink lots of water.  You'll lose water a lot faster than you are used to in the high desert environment there.  And symptoms of dehydration are much the same as symptoms of altitude sickness.

Truck height:  OK, a bit of a hijack off Jim's comments.  When we were in Grand Marais a couple weeks ago my Bronco was sitting next to my buddy's French HD 3/4 ton.  His stock tires (34x10.50) are bigger than the tires on my Bronco (33x10.50) which are bigger than the tires on my F-250HD (32x9.25).  The bed rails on his stock truck come up to his chin!  And the newer Fords are the same as the French trucks.  Another reason I like old trucks!

Jetting:  I wouldn't jet for any higher than the lowest altitude you'll be at.  If you're not going to rejet after you get there, then I'd leave it jetted for Oklahoma.  I've done OK leaving carbs set for Minnesota (elevation ~1000'), even driving over 13,000' passes.  Yeah, it's too rich up high, but too rich doesn't seem to be as big a problem as too lean.  If you're willing to take the time to rejet it after you get there it'll definitely run better, but even then I'd aim for the right mixture in Ouray.  I'd rather it be a little fat idling over the passes than misfiring and knocking on the highway heading into town.

[Gary Lewis]

Good thoughts, Bob.  Thanks.

My brother and I talked about how to get there and opted for stopping in Pueblo for the first night.  That's 10 hours for me and 588 miles, so if I leave at 8 AM, pick up my brother in Kansas, and stop another time or two we should get in around 6 PM there due to the time change.  Since Pueblo is at 4700' that will help get us start getting acclimated to the altitude.

Next morning, say at 8 AM, we'll leave and should make Ouray around 3 PM.  And I thought I'd re-jet then, which shouldn't take more than about 30 minutes, so assume an hour.  But since I'm getting prepared it shouldn't be that big of a deal.

Hopefully those two stages will get us used to the altitude.  But, taking meds with us just in case is the idea.

As for hydration, I've just added to the list a little ice chest so we can take drinks, if not our lunches, with us.  We'll take plenty of water from here and drink it as we go.  Thanks for the reminder.

And that's a good idea about jetting for the lowest altitude we'll be at, which looks to be Ouray's 7800 since both Telluride and Silverton are higher.  That's basically that "5" on the list above, and I think I have the .107" jets and probably have the .073 x .047" rods.  However, I have .073 x .042" rods in now, so even if I don't have the other rods these should do for 4 days.  It'll just be a little richer when the vacuum goes low and the rods pop up, but as you said, better to be rich than lean.

[ctubutis]

My thoughts on re-jetting are to leave it alone and not waste the time with it. My family used to come out here (Colorado) in the mid-1970s in a 1970 Ford Torino with a 351 Cleveland. I wasn't old enough to be driving, but I remember the idle speed being a lot lower at the top of Mt. Evans but that was it, everything else operated fine.

When we moved here (1978) we had the carbs re-jetted at that time. But for short-term vacations, I wouldn't worry about it.

Never heard of altitude meds, but I'm sure they exist.

And as others have said, it's generally pretty dry here and hydration is important.

[Gary Lewis]

Thanks, Chris. I'm not 100% sure I'll re-jet, but I want the option and I want to be prepared with the jets and rods handy.

And right now I don't have the option as the DS jet will not come out. I soaked it in PB Blaster over night and used a screwdriver bit that was a really good fit. But when I hit it with the small 12v drive impact the driver walked out and made ramps out of the screw slots.

So I've tried to call Bill to see what he recommends, but my calls aren't going through. Someone seems to answer but

If I really want it out I think a left-handed screw extractor is the only way to do it, but that will ruin the jet and until it comes out the carb is toast. So one idea is to leave it.

On the other hand, this is Brandon/Bruno2's carb, so I feel obligated to get the jet out or buy the carb from him as he is highly likely to need to swap jets if/when he wants to use it.

[Gary Lewis]

Ok, talked to Bill.  Having made ramps out of the slots the only choice to get the jet out is to remove the carb, wash it to make sure there's no gas ANYWHERE, heat the area right below the jet with a torch, and use a screw extractor to pull the jet.

However, Bill had a better idea: go with bigger metering rods!  So I'm going to look at the Eddy chart and see if there's a combo there that will work.  But, the Eddy chart is assuming you are using their rods, which are a subset of the Carter rods.  So there are probably jet/rod combos that won't show on the chart, and that may be what I need.

Anyway, I'll be back...