Planning For Big Blue's Trip To Ouray

[Gary Lewis]

Again, Bob, thanks for the detailed response.  

I, too, like the idea of going up difficult stretches rather than down.  So I think if we try The Wall we will come in from the north, up the trail.

But to scout it out I think I'd like to come in from the south given how close we will be at Hurricane Pass on what I think will be Day 2.  And regarding that you said:

Soon you'll get to a place where the trail splits into several options going down into a bowl.  If you're like me the first time I drove Poughkeepsie (which was driving down it in 2000 when I was a lot less experienced) the options here might be a bit intimidating.  If I recall correctly there's nothing that looks that likely to damage anything, but it does seem steep and sandy, like it might be hard to get back up if you need to.  Don't sell this section short.  In the grand scheme of things it's not all THAT hard, but it probably will be the hardest trail you've done so far.  I'm pretty confident Big Blue can make it down and up this section, but I'm not there to see what it's like now, and I'm not the one that needs to be confident.  Don't do it if you don't want to.

I'd like to try the bowl, but want to make sure I know where it is.  I think from what you've said it is in the green circle, right?  If so, what is in the blue circle?  (The yellow one is supposed to be The Wall, according to All Trails.)  And it is just soft, albeit steep?  Ok, sounds like something we can do.  

As for The Wall itself, it is one of those "I've got it, I've got it, I ain't got it" things.  I understand your words now, but when I'm there looking at it I'll probably have to re-read and re-think things.  But let me get back to that in a day or two and I'll ask more questions.

Thanks again!

[Nothing Special]

I THINK the bowl I'm talking about is in the blue circle.  I'm not sure what's in the green circle.  The worst switchbacks on the bypass are right up at the top, so that might be that area.  And yes, I think the yellow circle is The Wall.

As to what exactly the bowl is like, I don't remember for sure.  I know I was pretty intimidated by it in 2000, but after driving down it I wasn't too worried when we came up a day or two later (The Wall was a lot easier in 2000 than it was in 2018).  But then when we drove up it in 2018 we barely slowed down.

[Gary Lewis]

Maybe that is the switchbacks.  It looks like there's an easy way down on the right, with a hard way down in the middle.

However, I'm confused.  You said "(The Wall was a lot easier in 2000 than it was in 2018).  But then when we drove up it in 2018 we barely slowed down."  Do you maybe have that the wrong way 'round?  

In any event, you are saying Big Blue is capable, so I need to get my ability and confidence up to match his capabilities.  So maybe Ophir Pass & Imogene on Day 1, Engineer Mountain Road et al on Day 2 as well as a peek at The Wall, Poughkeepsie Gulch & The Wall on Day 3, and then MAYBE Black Bear on Day 4.  

[ctubutis]

All this talk of minivans, I guess I can do this:


https://youtu.be/lFrxy2NCHcA


https://youtu.be/Qa1pWbD3sKc



~~

I watched a YouTube video of some Jeeps going up one of these trails y'all are talking about, I don't think I'd be doing that myself; I was more into backpacking & hiking, *driving* up there never impressed me for whatever reason.

But seeing the old gold mines (and dare I say ghost towns) is pretty cool, my father took us as a family up to some places when we used to drive to Colorado on vacations in the mid-1970s from Chicago. But we were limited to places we could go in a sedan, and so I doubt I've ever been to these places you guys are talking about, even though I've lived here for 43 years.

Regardless, I'm sure you'll enjoy yourselves, Gary & Janey.

[Nothing Special]

Gary Lewis wrote

....  However, I'm confused.  You said "(The Wall was a lot easier in 2000 than it was in 2018).  But then when we drove up it in 2018 we barely slowed down."  Do you maybe have that the wrong way 'round?  

Sorry, I wasn't clear.  The Wall was much easier in 2000 than it was in 2018.  But it was the bowl above The Wall that barely slowed us down in 2018.  All i meant by that was that we didn't look at it much on that trip.  And our first trip was 21 years ago, so the faded memories are worth little.

Gary Lewis wrote

In any event, you are saying Big Blue is capable, so I need to get my ability and confidence up to match his capabilities....

I am NOT saying that!  Yes, I'm saying that Big Blue is plenty capable of doing Poughkeepsie Gulch, and with the possible exception of the first switchback (which is the second switchback), also Black Bear.  But I am not saying that you need to catch up to him.  You need to have fun and get back home in one piece!  If that means doing Poughkeepsie and Black Bear, then fine.  But if it means passing on either or both?  That's fine too.

Have fun and be safe!  (you can decide if it's in that order or the other way around )

[Nothing Special]

Gary Lewis wrote

....  As for The Wall itself, it is one of those "I've got it, I've got it, I ain't got it" things.  I understand your words now, but when I'm there looking at it I'll probably have to re-read and re-think things.  But let me get back to that in a day or two and I'll ask more questions....

Here are some pictures to help fit it all together.

First is the "easy" part of the trail coming up before The Wall.  It looks flat and level in the foreground.  But if you look at the background you get an idea of how steep it is!  This is hard to walk on.  Trucks have an easier time than pedestrians, but it is spooky hearing the rocks roll out from under your tires if you're not used to it.


Here's a picture of The Wall from 2000.  It doesn't look a lot like this anymore, but it might help visualize where the different routes are.  Just looking above the little road that's above the grass and rock just above my old Jeep, the route to the right is the "right side" that was the easiest in 2018.  The route in the center of the picture was a lot harder.


I posted this picture before  It shows my Bronco in 2018 on "the left side of the right side".  This is probably the most doable route (it's the only place I was successful in 2018), although it might require winching.


I posted this next picture before too.  It shows someone on the route that's in the middle of the 2000 picture (see what I mean about it being harder in 2018?).


And here I am further to the left on that route up the middle.  I did not make it up here.


I don't have many pictures of the bowl that's above The Wall, but here's one from 2000:


and another from 2018:


Those don't give you much to go on, but it's all I've got.

[Gary Lewis]

Chris - Those clips are cute!  I've seen them 13 times, by actual count, as my grandson and I've watched Cars that many times.  And the minivans are a neat part of it.  I love the conversation between them.  

But Janey doesn't get to go.    She has sjogren's syndrome and cannot be in the sun for any length of time, and obviously on top of a mountain is one of the worst places to be.  The trip was already planned when she learned that, so I invited my brother.

And we will be careful.  And we'll have fun.  In that order.  One of the reasons my brother agreed to go is that he knows I'm going to be cautious - always have been more cautious than he.  His sons have serious RZR's and are into "let's see if we can get this thing to go straight up" and my brother isn't into that.  He just wants to go and have a good time, safely.

Bob - The pics really help.  Thanks!

I've seen a youtube of people going up that "easy part of the trail coming up before The Wall", one of which was on a motorcycle.  He fell several times and then finally turned around and went back down.  So I have some idea of how steep it is and how loose the rocks are.  And hearing the rocks come out from under your tires is unnerving.  I heard the shale do that on Ophir Pass, but it wasn't that steep, although it was a shelf road so...

On The Wall itself, I think I like the "left side of the right side".  I don't like the idea of having rocks to slide into backwards or tip into with the side of the truck.  I'd rather a clear shot, and don't mind winching.  But the approach angle looks steep, so I'm thinking I will drag the trailer hitch.

And the bowl doesn't look that bad.  Again, it is hard to know how steep it is in the pictures, but the 2000 pic does show it.  And that's the way we'll be coming down to scope out The Wall on Day 2, if we do that.

Thanks again as this has helped immensely.  I need to get another round of maps together, send them to my brother, and then have a discussion with him about them.  He'd already agreed with the previous approach, but I really think substituting Imogene for Last Dollar will make a huge difference and get us into 'wheeling.

[Gary Lewis]

Ok, let me try this as a potential complete package.  Comments, PLEASE!

Day 1: Ophir Pass to Telluride and then Imogene Pass back to Ouray.  It is 56 miles, but is pretty easy for the first half as Ophir isn't challenging.  However, Imogene appears to have some sections that will cause us to learn and get accustomed to the truck and how it handles the trails.




Day 2: Engineer Mountain Road, Mineral Point, Engineer Pass, Animas Cutoff, California Gulch, sneak peek @ The Wall, and Corkscrew back to 550.  At 46 miles it might be a full day?




Day 3: Poughkeepsie Gulch, The Wall, then Corkscrew back to 550.  At only 25 miles it might be a short day, but there are plenty of side trails available.  And we might be at The Wall for a while.




Day 4: Black Bear to Telluride and then Imogene back to Ouray.  Certainly not going to push for going on Black Bear at all, much less down the switchbacks, but my understanding is that we can turn around before committing to them, right?  But that there is a significant hike to see them, and of course that's at 10,000 feet.  But if we get there and don't want to do it we can backtrack and go into Silverton for a change.

[Gary Lewis]

Oh yes, what is the recommended footwear?  I'm thinking boots, or at least heavy duty shoes?

Obviously we'll take rain gear and jackets.  But is there anything else recommended?

[Nothing Special]

Gary Lewis wrote

Ok, let me try this as a potential complete package.  Comments, PLEASE!

Day 1: Ophir Pass to Telluride and then Imogene Pass back to Ouray.  It is 56 miles, but is pretty easy for the first half as Ophir isn't challenging.  However, Imogene appears to have some sections that will cause us to learn and get accustomed to the truck and how it handles the trails.

Sounds like a good first day.  You might want to take a little time in Telluride.  We've never done more than eat our picnic lunch in a park, but it seems like a cute tourist town that probably deserves more time than we've given it.

Gary Lewis wrote

Day 2: Engineer Mountain Road, Mineral Point, Engineer Pass, Animas Cutoff, California Gulch, sneak peek @ The Wall, and Corkscrew back to 550.  At 46 miles it might be a full day?

Don't dawdle too much in the morning and you should be able to get back to Ouray for dinner without any trouble.  And I think you'll really enjoy this day.  Not that you won't the others, but this day should give you some interesting challenges and really give you some great scenery.

Gary Lewis wrote

Day 3: Poughkeepsie Gulch, The Wall, then Corkscrew back to 550.  At only 25 miles it might be a short day, but there are plenty of side trails available.  And we might be at The Wall for a while.

I assume you're thinking about going in from Engineer Mountain Road and driving up Poughkeepsie Gulch?  I hope this is a fun day for you.  I'm not predicting that it won't be, but The Wall is going to be outside of your experiences so far.  If you do it I think you'll feel (rightly) that you've really accomplished something.  And you'll likely either be hooked on rockcrawling or ready to swear it off forever!

But I think this is a good length to plan for this day.  You can always find ways to fill time if you need to.  And you might be ready for an earlier end to the day too.

Gary Lewis wrote

Day 4: Black Bear to Telluride and then Imogene back to Ouray.  Certainly not going to push for going on Black Bear at all, much less down the switchbacks, but my understanding is that we can turn around before committing to them, right?  But that there is a significant hike to see them, and of course that's at 10,000 feet.  But if we get there and don't want to do it we can backtrack and go into Silverton for a change.

I'm not 100% sure where the trail becomes 1 way.  There's a sign, so I think it's pretty clear, I just don't remember where it is.  Assuming it's pretty close above Adios Curve, it's still about 0.4 miles to walk to the first/second switchback.  It certainly isn't any less than that, but it could be more.  According to the topo map I have in my GPS program it drops from about 11,200 feet elevation to about 10,800'.  It's a pretty easy walk other than the distance and elevation loss/gain, but that "other than" makes it a pretty good hike, especially for flatlanders like us.

"The Steps" is the last section before Adios Curve.  That will keep your attention too.  It's not all that difficult, but it will test your articulation, which, if Big Blue is anything like my old '85 F-250HD, mostly comes from frame flex (your solid front axle will help there).  But again, don't go anywhere you aren't comfortable with the idea of coming back up and you'll do fine.

The thought does occur to me that I've never thought about backtracking on Black Bear, and I've never encountered anyone going back on it.  It's definitely allowed, but I can't think of how easy or difficult it might be to get by people.  Maybe it's a piece of cake, maybe it's miserable, I really have no idea.  Again, read it as you go.

[ctubutis]

Gary Lewis wrote

Oh yes, what is the recommended footwear?  I'm thinking boots, or at least heavy duty shoes?

Obviously we'll take rain gear and jackets.  But is there anything else recommended?

I'm probably over-thinking this, my brain has been warped by 40+ years of TV news stories on how to prepare for trips to the high country (especially in winter).

Ever since my teenage years, I have always worn tennis shoes if I was in a car/Jeep and not driving; hiking boots otherwise.

As an adult, my what-if mind makes me think of possibly needing to spend the night in the truck on the top of a mountain for some reason, which can become quite chilly overnight. Don't expect your cellphone to work up there.

Drinking water would be good to have, some people get altitude sickness if they exert themselves too hard. A first aid kit in case you fall or otherwise injure yourself, but I think you've already got that accounted for (I seem to remember discussion & pictures on this topic some time ago). A way to start a fire. A hiking stick if you plan to be out & about might be helpful.

When are you expecting to arrive up there? I'm mostly interested in how many people you encounter, the population of the state has more than doubled since I moved here in 1978, and it's really difficult to get away from people these days....

[Nothing Special]

Gary Lewis wrote

Oh yes, what is the recommended footwear?  I'm thinking boots, or at least heavy duty shoes?

Obviously we'll take rain gear and jackets.  But is there anything else recommended?

I always wear good hiking boots when I'm 'wheeling.  The stiffer soles are nicer on your feet when you are walking on very uneven surfaces, and some better ankle support than heavy duty shoes is a good idea too.  But this close to the trip, take footwear that you already have broken in.  Not that you'll necessarily be doing a lot of hiking, but as the Boy Scouts say (as well as Scar from Disney's "The Lion King"), Be Prepared.

A pair of leather gloves can be nice if you have to move rocks or handle a winch line (I keep a pair with my recovery gear).

Bring lunch and plenty of drinking water.  There aren't any fast food places up on those trails!  Bringing some extra food and blankets in case you need to spend the night isn't a terrible idea, but odds are VERY slim it'd be needed.

Sunburn happens a lot faster and a lot worse with 12,000 feet of filtering air below you.  Sunscreen is good, but a boonie hat, long sleeves and long pants might be better.

Air temperature matters surprisingly little in the mountains.  The air just doesn't have enough heat capacity to make much difference.  On a sunny 50 degree day you might be sweating in shorts and a T-shirt while standing in snow that's not melting.  Wind will make some difference, clouds and rain will make a lot of difference.  So wearing a fairly thin base layer with a sweatshirt and a rain shell available works pretty well.  A lightweight fleece jacket is even better than a sweatshirt because it doesn't soak up water.

And rain reminds me, you are on top of a big lightning rod any time you're on a mountain, so keep that in mind if a thunder storm comes up.  And don't go down Black Bear if any significant rain might be encountered.  I haven't run into that, but I think I sent you a link once of a couple Jeeps that had boulders bouncing past them and eventually got trapped by a landslide.

[Gary Lewis]

Well, lots of good info in those posts.  Thanks, guys.

Bob: We drove around Telluride with our friends last October and it is a cute town.  But we didn't stay long after lunch 'cause we had to turn the Jeep in by 2:00 - and we just made it.  Imogene pass will probably take less time that Last Dollar Road, especially since we got out many times on LDR to take pics - the aspen were gorgeous!  So, we should have time to look around.

And we will get a prompt start on Day 2.  Thanks for the warning.  

Yes, we are coming from Engineer Mountain Road up Poughkeepsie Gulch.  I think it will be interesting to at least see The Wall, if not try it.  And with the option of winching up it, I don't really see too much problem.  (Famous last words.)

As for Black Bear, we'll be cautious.  I really doubt we do it, and could easily go back and tackle The Wall again if we wanted.  But yes, I've seen the video of the water and boulders, as well as the one with the cartwheeling Jeep, so I'm sure we will be cautious.

Anyway, it sounds like we have a decent plan.  I also sent it to my brother this afternoon and we are going to talk tomorrow about it, but he's already approved it.  And we will talk about clothing, footwear, food, water, etc.  We'll be prepared.

Chris - We will get to Ouray on the 7th and run the trails on the 8th through the 11th.  And yes, we will have drinking water, warm clothes, etc.  We do have the first aid kit, altitude sickness meds, and a way to start a fire, but I hadn't thought about a hiking stick.  That might come in really handy.  And I think I'll wear my boots.

Bob - Yep, I guess I'll wear my shop boots.  Best clean them up a bit.  And I have lots of gloves in, for sure.  As for clothes, I plan to wear jeans and a long-sleeved shirt.  And in the bed in a tote I'll have a jacket, fleece, rain coat, etc.

We'll have sunscreen, sun glasses, and lip balm.  Plus a ball cap and my floppy hat.  And probably had better take some Gold Bond or other moisturizing lotion.

Ok, it sounds like a plan!  Thanks, guys!  

[ctubutis]

Gary Lewis wrote

Obviously we'll take rain gear and jackets.  But is there anything else recommended?

Almost forgot... toilet paper, possibly also a hand shovel.

[Nothing Special]

One nice thing is that there are quite a few outhouses scattered around on the trails east of highway 550 (I have the ones i know about marked on my sketchy map).  I THINK there might be one near the top of Imogene, but I don't think Black Bear has any.

[Gary Lewis]

Chris - I hadn't thought about that!  But, we will also need hand sanitizer.

Bob - I'm hoping we'll find the outhouses, but it is best to be prepared.  And, if Black Bear doesn't have any then...

[Gary Lewis]

I posted yesterday that I washed and waxed Big Blue to get ready for both the show and the trip.  Today I cleaned the windows, vacuumed the carpet, changed the oil and filter, lubed everything, checked brake, power steering, and coolant levels, and rotated the tires.  Plus I put up the GMRS antenna and put the mike in place.  I think it is ready!

My brother was to get instruction on how to use Gaia today from his son, and possibly borrow his iPad to run it on.  Our wives talked today and coordinated who is bringing what food stuffs, water, soft drinks, etc.

So all that is left is from me to get my clothing picked out and packed.  But one of the things I'm going to take is my "new" jacket.  May not get cold enough, but maybe?  

[1986F150Six]

Gary Lewis wrote

So all that is left is from me to get my clothing picked out and packed.  But one of the things I'm going to take is my "new" jacket.  May not get cold enough, but maybe?  

New / old?

[Gary Lewis]

Fairly new to me, as you know, but haven't really had a chance to wear it much - if any.  Maybe this is that chance?  So it is going.  Seems fitting.

[Machspeed]

Wow, you were busy yesterday. Looks like you got a lot done too! Got off of work yesterday, ate dinner and went out into the shop to do some detailing on the truck but just could not tolerate the heat and humidity. Had a fan blowing too! Got the windows cleaned and was done!