Nv4500 trans swap? Anyone have any insight?

[MrRy]

Sooo, in another post that got off topic quickly,  I'm investigating the realities of a t19 (I think? T18?) 4spd to a 5 spd trans.
The logical choice stands out in my mind as a zf5 as I quickly learned there are a load of troubles involved with that. Scratch that idea for now.
 
Next I think about  the "dodge" nv4500, has anyone done that?
Any and all insights,  thoughts and comments are welcomed and encouraged.  
 
  Please don't mistake my ignorance of ford for arrogance.  As well as my grammatical,  and punctuation errors.
   Adult adhd slaps me hard sometimes and thoughts are difficult to get out coherently.
     
       Ry.

[FuzzFace2]

MrRy wrote

The logical choice stands out in my mind as a zf5 as I quickly learned there are a load of troubles involved with that. Scratch that idea for now.
 
Please don't mistake my ignorance of ford for arrogance.  As well as my grammatical,  and punctuation errors.
   Adult adhd slaps me hard sometimes and thoughts are difficult to get out coherently.
     
       Ry.

I don't see any issues with what you posted here. Others without ADHD had done worst as I think I am one of them at times

I would like to know why you think the ZF5 is a load of troubles?
I have my reasons but would like to hear your if you don't mind?
Dave ----

never mind I found your other post on the ZF5 and I can see why now, I don't blame you.

[grumpin]

Never heard of anyone doing that swap.

How about an overdrive unit? Gearvendors is one and there’s a company that makes or made a unit that mounts in front of the tranny. Can’t find them now, may be out of business.

Dave/Fuzzface, don’t you have one in your flareside?

[FuzzFace2]

grumpin wrote

Never heard of anyone doing that swap.

How about an overdrive unit? Gearvendors is one and there’s a company that makes or made a unit that mounts in front of the tranny. Can’t find them now, may be out of business.

Dave/Fuzzface, don’t you have one in your flareside?

Yes I have Advance Adaptor Range Splitter over drive unit.
What is nice is it can be used in 4x4 mode where the GV can not as it hangs off the rear of the transfer case. You can also split each gear giving you 8 forward and 2 back gears.

Only thing is I seen it posted that they may have stopped making them, don't know how true this is so would need to call them.
It could be because of the virus they shut down for a bit, I hope, or there just was not a big calling for it and they stopped for good?
I know I ordered mine just as the virus hit and it took a long time for them to build and ship mine.
Dave ----

ps it did not help or hurt my MPG but did lower the RPM.

[Nothing Special]

It's a pretty common swap in early Broncos.  I'm not sure why the ZF5 doesn't seem to be as popular there (maybe it's physically bigger than an NV4500?  Real estate is valuable in an early Bronco).

I don't know what would be involved in sticking one on a 351M instead of a 302, but I'd imagine it would be similar.  For the 302 (as I understand it, I've swapped an NV3550, but not a 4500) you use a Ford bellhousing that matches the engine.  It can be either hydraulic or mechanical clutch.  There might be some slight mods necessary on the bellhousing (I had to cut a hole for clearance for a boss on my NV3550).  There is probably an adapter needed between the bellhousing and the trans (I bought one from Advance Adapters for my NV3550).  And you need to get a clutch plate that works on the trans input shaft and a pressure plate that works on the engine's flywheel.

I know all of those adapters and special parts are readily available for a 302 or 351W.  I don't know about the 351M.

[MrRy]

Last time I priced a gear vendors,  they seemed a bit spicy for the pocket book and they seemed to only be applicable for a 2wd.
I may be completely mistaken.

I have also considered sourcing a od box from a mid 90s motor home, as I know that the Chevrolet powered ones had an auxiliary od behind the standard t400.
I assume that the Ford big block coaches also could have a similar box that may be a better fit,
I'm a more junkyard/budget kinda guy vs just throwing my wallet at a problem.

[grumpin]

MrRy wrote

Last time I priced a gear vendors,  they seemed a bit spicy for the pocket book and they seemed to only be applicable for a 2wd.
I may be completely mistaken.

I have also considered sourcing a od box from a mid 90s motor home, as I know that the Chevrolet powered ones had an auxiliary od behind the standard t400.
I assume that the Ford big block coaches also could have a similar box that may be a better fit,
I'm a more junkyard/budget kinda guy vs just throwing my wallet at a problem.

That’s good, I am too. Sometimes when it’s done it’s not that much more.

Thanks Dave, that’s the one I was thinking of. Got it saved now. If I had a manual that’s what I would like.

[FuzzFace2]

MrRy wrote

Last time I priced a gear vendors,  they seemed a bit spicy for the pocket book and they seemed to only be applicable for a 2wd.
I may be completely mistaken.

I have also considered sourcing a od box from a mid 90s motor home, as I know that the Chevrolet powered ones had an auxiliary od behind the standard t400.
I assume that the Ford big block coaches also could have a similar box that may be a better fit,
I'm a more junkyard/budget kinda guy vs just throwing my wallet at a problem.

That was 1 reason why I did not go with the GV unit, the $$.
I would also say that unit on the back of that T400 is most likely a GV unit as I don't know of any other type OD unit that does.

Now the way I figured the $ needed to do any OD swap was to run the numbers for each swap.
Now things that would be the same like drive shaft mod I did not count as the coast would be the same and cancel out.

Now if you go for a used transmission say ZF5 that I read most likely would need a rebuild or a core if you bought a rebuilt one so this needs to be added into the swap.

So look at the trans you want t o run. Dose it have a bad rap on used ones that it needs a rebuild before you install it?
So lets say $1500 for a used trans, rebuild $1500 and you are now at $3000 of the GV unit.
Then add in a clutch, PP, throw out bearing, maybe adaptors to bolt to motor, clutch pedal / master / slave, trans cross member, floor  trans cover, how do you hookup a speedo? and who knows what else?

So the GV unit is looking pretty good at this point just for the $$ and it is a bolt in.
So do your home work.
Just my .02
Dave ----

[Nothing Special]

MrRy wrote

Last time I priced a gear vendors,  they seemed a bit spicy for the pocket book and they seemed to only be applicable for a 2wd.
I may be completely mistaken....

A Gear Vendors can go on the rear output of a transfer case and be used in a 4WD vehicle.  But since it's only on the rear driveline it can't be used in 4WD.

Whether that's acceptable to you or not is up to you.

[MrRy]

Excellent points, I perhaps hadn't considered.
I have fair to considerable mechanical skills, as well as access to mills, lathes and the like.
   Ideally I would tap into all my resources and exploit all my options.
Currently I'm "bench racing" and learning all I can about all the nuances of this different brand i have zero experience with.
    Many thoughts to ponder.
Many more questions bubbling up.

Thanks

    Ry.

[kramttocs]

Came here to say the same as Bob - they are made to go on both 2wd and 4wd (I have one on each) they just don't work in 4wd.

Maybe I missed it but what is your goal? Is it purely getting overdrive?

[MrRy]

My end goal in my many questions in several posts regarding the 5sp swap is to 1) have a more usable first gear.
2) achieve  lower engine rpm for sustained highway driving @ 65mph
3) improve mpg from the abysmal 6-9 im currently achieving,  improved from my starting 4 mpg @45mph
4) Not cut up floor pans, or irreversibly alter the structure of the cab, frame,  or overall look of this particular truck.

If you search my new members post you may gain some insight into the value to me regarding this one singular truck.

I have many many more questions, thoughts and ideas I would love to continue to aggravate all of you folks with.

 Thanks.
   Ryan
        Ryan

[FuzzFace2]

Nothing Special wrote

MrRy wrote

Last time I priced a gear vendors,  they seemed a bit spicy for the pocket book and they seemed to only be applicable for a 2wd.
I may be completely mistaken....

A Gear Vendors can go on the rear output of a transfer case and be used in a 4WD vehicle.  But since it's only on the rear driveline it can't be used in 4WD.

Whether that's acceptable to you or not is up to you.

Maybe I did not say it but you are right.
The GV can be used in a 4x4 truck just NOT in 4x4 mode.
Now some say you would not be going that fast in 4x4 to have to worry about high RPM or MPG where the GV would be used for mostly.

For me having a 300 six and using it as a back up to pull my open deck car trailer, around 5000 lb, I like that I can split each gear if need be. I can tell just driving it that splitting 3rd before going into 4th direct is the way I would need to go when pulling a heavy load. The spread between 3rd & 4th on my NP435 is pretty big.
Dave ----