Instrument Lighting & Paint Testing

[Gary Lewis]

EDIT: Bill of HiPo Parts has gotten back to me and advised that my testing about the paint and its ability to fluoresce is flawed.  I will be editing this post to reflect on what I learn, soon.  In the interim, I've modified what I posted about the paint.......

I mentioned yesterday that I tried the HiPo Parts LED's for the instrument panel/gauges.  But today I thought I'd do a thorough test of them and post the results.  Also, should this be turned into a page in the documentation section?  If so, how does it fit with the page at Documentation/Interior/Painting Gauge Needles?

First, these are their 245 lumen 20x Plasma SMD Bulb 194 T-10 Wedge - 360 Wide Angle LED's, and I have a set in Cool White and another in Warm White.  Heretofore I've had some blue LED's in, which are these from Yitamotor, but I haven't liked them as I don't like the blue and the gauges aren't very bright.

But, I really like the Cool White HiPo LED's, for two reasons: first, because they are bright; second because they aren't polarized, meaning that they work no matter which way you put them in - which is NOT true of most LED's, and you don't know which ones won't work until you put the cluster back in.  

Here's what they look like, with the Cool Whites on the left, the Warm Whites in the center, and the blue ones on the right:



Now for what they look like in an instrument cluster.  But first, I need to 'splain how I took these pics - on Manual on my camera, a Nikon Coolpix S9700.  The shutter speed was 1/60th of a second, the f-stop was 4.5, the zoom was set at 90 mm, and the ISO at 1600.

Why is that important?  Because if you put your camera on an automatic mode it will adjust those settings to get the same brightness in the picture - no matter how bright the LED's really are.  So I took one pic on automagic and then dialed the settings it chose into the Manual mode.  That kept everything the same from pic to pic.  And, all pic's were taken in my storm shelter with the lights off, so it was DARK!

Ok, now for what they looked like:  Here's Big Blue's cluster, which has Testor's Orange Fluorescent paint, with the HiPo Cool White LED's:



And here's the Warm White and Big Blue's cluster:



Then here's the blue LED's.  Yep, they are much dimmer, but were a big improvement over the incandescent bulbs and blue filters that were in there.




Last was a test of HiPo's HP-FLORP Fluorescent Speedo/Gauge Needle Restoration Paint vs Testors' Orange Fluorescent paint.  HiPo's is acrylic and Testors' is enamel.  Here's a comparison, with Big Blue's cluster on the top and a spare that I just painted with HiPo's paint on the bottom.  And if you are wondering what the difference is, the answer is "Not much."  I can't really see any difference in color, although the Testors' is smoother as it seems to flow out a bit better.  UPDATE from Bill of HiPo Parts: "Our paint does have a texture, by design.  That texture is the fluorescent pigment.  Fluorescent pigment is a solid, so it does make the paint have a slight texture.  The other thing I did not see mentioned is that our paint is semi-translucent by design.  That allows the light to partially penetrate the surface and reach pigment below the surface to increase the illumination effect."




Having said all that, Bill @ HiPo assured me that his paint really fluoresces and the Testors' won't.  So, here's a direct comparison, with the cluster on top using Testors' paint and the one on the bottom with HiPo's paint, and both using the same HiPo Cool White LED's.  I can't see it, but maybe you can?

UPDATE from Bill of HiPo Parts: "Fluorescent paint requires a portion of the blue light spectrum to excite the pigment (make it glow).  If you are using white light, then the other portions of the spectrum (specifically the red) negate the effects of the blue spectrum.   This is why the dashes of vehicles that use fluorescent paints are normally illuminated in some shade of blue or green light.  Both of those colors are capable of exciting the pigment.  Trying to make a  fluorescent paint glow with white light is not going to have much of an effect, if any."

[Dee1986]

Definitely have to agree that the cool white looks really good. I'll be ordering some tonight. I can't really see a difference in the needle paint. Nice work 👍

[Dee1986]

How many LEDs does it take for the whole cluster?

[Gary Lewis]

Dee1986 wrote

Definitely have to agree that the cool white looks really good. I'll be ordering some tonight. I can't really see a difference in the needle paint. Nice work 👍

It takes 5 "bulbs" to do the illumination of the gauges, if that's what you meant.

[Dee1986]

Yes, thank you

[Rembrant]

Gary,

Are you bench testing these or putting them in the dash of a truck?

I really like the clear white (the first one). Very cool.

I'm currently very happy with the Cool Blues I bought on Ebay, but if I was to do something different it would be those cool whites for sure.

[Gary Lewis]

All y'all - I have a question for you, down at the bottom.

As I think about this, perhaps I should have done the test differently.  Instead of starting with the cool white LED's as the baseline, perhaps I should have started with incandescent bulbs and polished blue filters.  (Bill from HiPo says you can polish the oxidation off the filters.)  Set the camera to give a good rendering of that and use it as a baseline.  Then we'd have what it really is supposed to look like and can use that as a guide to making changes.

The downside of that is that when you get a lot more light coming out it will, at some point, be too much for the camera.  In other words, if the incandescent bulb and filters give the camera enough light for a good pic, then these cool whites may overpower the camera and you won't get a true "picture" of how bright it is.

I'm not looking for more work, but it would be nice to have THE definitive study on this topic and not have to revisit it.

Thoughts?

[Gary Lewis]

Rembrant wrote

Gary,

Are you bench testing these or putting them in the dash of a truck?

I really like the clear white (the first one). Very cool.

I'm currently very happy with the Cool Blues I bought on Ebay, but if I was to do something different it would be those cool whites for sure.

I am "storm shelter" testing.  I have two places in the shop that can be dark - the storm shelter and the utility room.  Today I picked the storm shelter, but if I redo this I think I'll go to the utility room.  It is much bigger and it would be easier.

[salans7]

Did you do anything else to the cluster to enhance the lighting (like paint the backing plate silver)?

[Danny G]

I don't think you are really going to see which better fluoresces unless you use something like a UV light.

That may be cool, throw some uv leds in there lol.

[Gary Lewis]

No, I haven't done anything to make it reflect better.  If you look closely you can see that the cluster with HiPo paint is a little brighter in a couple of places, like the center of the tach and the temp gauge.  That cluster is just a bit whiter than Big Blue's cluster, and I think that's why it looks brighter.

Maybe I should paint it?

As for fluorescing, I didn't really think the paint would.  But I wanted to test it.  Nope.

[ArdWrknTrk]

A note here...
If you choose to use LED's for the indicator and idiot lights do not use one for the charge (battery) indicator.
An LED will not pass enough current to excite the alternator.

At least these HiPo LED's pass current both ways.  
That indicator works on the principle that there is more potential on one side than the other.

[Rembrant]

ArdWrknTrk wrote

A note here...
If you choose to use LED's for the indicator and idiot lights do not use one for the charge (battery) indicator.
An LED will not pass enough current to excite the alternator.

I don't think very many Bullnoses had the idiot lights did they? I know they exist...I have seen them, but only on the most absolute stripped trucks. I assume the illuminated part of that light is part of the gauge itself and is separate from the instrument cluster illumination?

https://www.ebay.com/itm/OEM-1980-6-FORD-TRUCK-F-150-250-350-BRONCO-INSTRUMENT-CLUSTER-NO-TACH/222977928841?hash=item33ea852e89:g:R0oAAOSwBkRaCPmf

[ArdWrknTrk]

That whole bank of indicators above the gauge cluster have individual lights.
No, they're not cluster illumination, but I imagine many people would change those to LED while they had the gauges out.

I don't know what percentage of Bullnose trucks had an ammeter, or even how the lt grn/Red wire gets key on power when they do, but if you don't have an ammeter the idiot light has to pass current to the alternator.

On my bricknose dash the charge indicator is in the cluster, and part of the flex circuit.
You need to know better than to swap this out or you'll end up with a dead battery.

4x4, turn, low oil pressure, etc.. indicators are fine with LED's, but not that ONE.

[ArdWrknTrk]

Once again Gary's pictures have a page load measured in eons on my phone...

I understand those viewing the forum on a 30" monitor might want it so, but for a phone (or even my tablet) it seems massive overkill.
Of course... it's Gary so that's to be expected.

[Rembrant]

ArdWrknTrk wrote

That whole bank of indicators above the gauge cluster have individual lights.
No, they're not cluster illumination, but I imagine many people would change those to LED while they had the gauges out.

I don't know what percentage of Bullnose trucks had an ammeter, or even how the lt grn/Red wire gets key on power when they do, but if you don't have an ammeter the idiot light has to pass current to the alternator.

On my bricknose dash the charge indicator is in the cluster, and part of the flex circuit.
You need to know better than to swap this out or you'll end up with a dead battery.

4x4, turn, low oil pressure, etc.. indicators are fine with LED's, but not that ONE.

The Bullnoses do not have a battery or charge light in that upper bank of indicators. They either have the "DC" analog gauge, or the "Charge" indicator in place of it in the cluster. I guess my point is, I don't think it is a light/bulb that anybody would (or could) change, but Gary can correct me if I'm wrong. Most change the 5 bulbs in the cluster for illumination, or the upper bank of indicators for turn signals, high beams, brake, 4x4, etc.

But I get your point. If that bulb can be changed to an LED, one should not do it.

[ArdWrknTrk]

Okay, my bad.

This is why (as someone who has never "been intimate" with a Bullnose for an extended period) should learn to keep quiet.

[Rembrant]

ArdWrknTrk wrote

Okay, my bad.

This is why (as someone who has never "been intimate" with a Bullnose for an extended period) should learn to keep quiet.

It is a valid point, I get it.
I've only seen a couple junkyard trucks up here with the idiot "Charge" indicator. I think they'd be fairly rare in the Bullnoses that are still on the road today. Gary can correct me if I'm wrong, but the instrument cluster with "idiot lights" seems to me like an earlier Bullnose thing that went away with manual brakes, manual steering, and kingpins. I'm sure they were around in the later Bullnose years, but not very often. Kinda like the three on the tree manual trans...somewhat common in 1980, and almost unheard of by 1986. I could be wrong, but that is my perception.

[Gary Lewis]

ArdWrknTrk wrote

Okay, my bad.

This is why (as someone who has never "been intimate" with a Bullnose for an extended period) should learn to keep quiet.

No, Jim, you are quite accurate with your statements, and probably more so than I.  And your contributions are extremely helpful.

As for the Charge idiot light, I don't have any info on the # of trucks with them, but I can offer two observations.  First, I've pulled a lot of these trucks apart, and only one of them had idiot lights.  Second, Ford discontinued them for the 1986 year, so apparently they weren't selling well enough to warrant keeping all the extra cab harnesses around that it would require.

[ArdWrknTrk]

I see from pgs 15&16 of the '85 EVTM that it is shown as part of the instrument cluster, has a resistor across it and gets power in run from the same Red/Green wire that feeds the coil through the resistor wire.

Not really sure where another harness would come into play (as the schematic is a graphic representation of the harness, and not pictorial)