Instrument Lighting & Paint Testing

[BigBrother-84]

Gary,

Q1- 3 years later, still satisfied with the Cool White HIPO without blue filters?

Q2- I am wondering how low you can dim,  do you have 100% control on it?  Often, LED tend to suddenly "shut off" when voltage set too low...

Q3- Finally, is LED dim smooth and "progressive", or kind of "jerky"?

[Gary Lewis]

Three years on I'm very happy and highly recommend that combo.  But I don't remember how low you can go on the dimming.  Certainly lower than I want to go.  And it goes smoothly.

[BigBrother-84]

Thanks!

[ratdude747]

No issues with flicker or burnout? I've had next to no luck with 194 sized LEDs in my 1995 Ranger... Never get more than 6 months before things fry, having tried many different units over the years. But then again, the ones you called out are way more expensive... buy once, cry once?

[Gary Lewis]

No issues at all.  The HIPO LEDs are expensive, but I'd use them again in a heartbeat.  It is SO painful getting to the lights/LEDs that I'm not about to put questionable ones in there.  Plus these work no matter which way you put them in so you don't have to worry about that.

[Gsmblue]

I can second the quality of the hip bulbs, Have them in my Bronco and F350 - they are awesome.

[351FUN]

Yeah there's a huge difference in longevity between amazon specials and something like superbrightleds.com.  Doing these bulbs is on my to do list soon, probably when I install one of the new dash panels.  

[BigBrother-84]

Ok, just installed in Big Brother's instruments cluster.
In my opinion, these HIPO are simply P-E-R-F-E-C-T.

Just for fun, before installing them for the cluster lightning, I tried them in the turn/brake/high-low places.  For those who plan to replace all the cluster bulbs with LEDs, I suggest not going that way.
LEDs are too bright and these warning lights can't be dimmed, so black peint imperfections look as many little white stars when the light is on.

And not to mention about the High-Low steady blue one that becomes an almost blinding blue spot in your eyes.


Keep your money and replace only the cluster lighting bulbs.

[Gary Lewis]

Glad you like them, Jeff.  

What color did you use?

[BigBrother-84]

Same as you.  Your detailed bench/photo/aperture tests convinced me.


Cool white w/o blue filters.

For the first time, Big Bro's cluster lighting isn't always at maximum power!

[Gary Lewis]

Glad you like that combo.  To me it is crisp and clear at night.  No struggling to read the gauges at all, unlike with incandescent bulbs and the blue filters.

Now I need to find cool white LEDs for my aftermarket gauges since they have a warm white glow to them that not only doesn't match but is harder to read.

[351FUN]

Most gauges use 194 bulbs from what I've seen, I know my autometes ones did.  It's funny that I haven't done the dash lights yet, as the brake/turn bulbs are led and the headlights are Truck Lite units.

[BigBrother-84]

Gary, I had a 2 hours highway dark night ride yesterday, and so had Big Bro's lights on.  Not usual, because Big Bro is usually on the road during daytime.

When I dim (very low) the HiPo LEDs, they aren't "stable" and the light fluctuates a bit.  Not a big issue, but I am wondering why...  Note that the LEDs are constant with higher intensity.
I called HiPo, and he explained me that it usually depends of the dimmer switch itself.

• Q1- Did you notice the same on Big Blue?

• Q2- Is the ICVR serving only the gauges, or is it also involved in the lightning?

• Q3- Could it be the truck general voltage, not "constant" enough?

[Gary Lewis]

No, I've not noticed that on BB, but then I don't run them at a low setting so probably wouldn't.

And the ICVR isn't involved in the lighting, only running the three gauges.

As for what is causing this, my guess is that it is two things taken together.  First, the voltage in the truck varies to some degree.  And the turn-off point of each LED is different from the others.  So when you get down near the turn-off point one turns off, which then increases the voltage due to less current, and it may come back on.  Meanwhile the voltage in the truck varies because you switch the brights on or adjust the A/C fan's speed, and that causes other LEDs to come on or go off.

[ArdWrknTrk]

The answer is that the rheostat (dimmer) is running the LED's too close to their threshold level.
LED compatible dimmers all use PWM. Pretty much the way the ICVR operates but at much higher frequency.

Some LED's incorporate capacitors to filter and smooth out flickering, but even these dimmable diodes will pulse if the voltage is too low.

[BigBrother-84]

I was suspecting something like this, yes.  But I am still confused about this behaviour.
Let me explain.

First, I have to precise that all cluster LEDs are "pulsing" perfectly synchronized together.

If a LED receives a voltage too close to its shut-off point, it begins to flick, am I correct?
The fact that they are all "pulsing" perfectly synchronized together is somewhat curious, no?


Otherwise, if all the LEDs receive a "pulsing current", that could explain why they all pulse together.

If my whole Christmas Tree cycles on and off, I'll check the wall plug.  Otherwise, I'll focus on each single bulb that flashes separately.

Sounds logical for me, that's why I need guys like you to explain me what's wrong in my analysis.

[Gary Lewis]

Ahhh!  All of them pulse together.  That's different, and all I can say is that they are all reaching cut-off voltage, dropping out, and then the reduction in current across the resistor lets the voltage come up just enough for them to light again.  And that causes the voltage to drop, which causes them to drop out, which causes the voltage to rise, .....

If it is causing an issue you could do as Jim suggested and put a capacitor across the feed after the resistor/potentiometer.  But I'd have to do some math to figure out how big the cap should be.  

[ratdude747]

I finally got around to trying this myself. I painted my needles in Testor's Florescent orange some time ago (2.5 years?), but yesterday tackled LED'ing it with a bunch of HIPO clearance-bin LEDs:



I didn't swap the headlight/wiper light... but may in the future. I did swap (and test) all of the indicator lights (Turn signals, Seat Belt, High Beam, and Brake warning).

(Yes I know I can replace my ugly glued plastic with a new one from JBG... but I'm too cheap to spend $40 on it right now!)

I also did the HVAC and ashtray:



For the HVAC I used a warm white bulb. Not sure I like the result... the green seems too intense and is making the blue/red of the temp slider look, in my opinion, terrible. On the HVAC, is the blue tint removable or is it permanently part of the plastic panel? This is partially why I didn't do the headlight/washer yet: I'd like to match it to the HVAC. If the tint piece/part can be removed, I may opt to swap for a cool white light with such removed and then put a cool white in the headlight/wiper socket (blue tint removed). If not... then leave it be and it is what it is.

The ashtray I had to use a smaller bulb. I happened to have a single-diode small (exact bulb size) unit that came with one of the new Faria Beede gauges I put in my boat (I bought different LEDs from HiPo for such, so the supplied one was a spare), which fit perfectly. Not that it matters, since I don't smoke and the ashtray is storage for screws, the original radio pigtail, and my partially-defunct TFI module tool (I still use it for choke adjustments).

I also did the license plate lights (worked great) and tried to do the dome light, but the latter was too dim. I'll have to put something brighter there. I have more bulbs on order (more clearance bin raiding) for  my 1995 Ranger (already LED'd, but the half-burnt cheapo bulbs need to go) along with a non-clearance bulb for the under-hood.

Compare this to a pic I took the night before when my Odometer rolled over on my way from a very long Saturday at work:



(and that's with a parking lot light above... in the dark it was way worse).

Good swap. I can actually see things at night!

[Gary Lewis]

Looks good, Larry!  

But I agree that the warm white might not be right for the HVAC controls.  Unfortunately the colors appear to be part of the plastic.  However, in the dim reaches of my memory I tend to think that some reported having gotten to the color layer - like it might be sandwiched?  I searched but didn't find it in the forum.

And since LEDs emit rather precise colors, not the wide spectrum that an incandescent bulb does, you may not find an LED that gives nice blues and reds on that control panel.  

[ArdWrknTrk]

Remember, from Stern, that filters only pass a specific wavelength, so you have to match the LED to the filter....

Land had this problem when he wanted to install polarized windshields in cars too (passing a specific polarization, not frequency)
I have trouble seeing my phone when I'm wearing my Ray Ban's.