Help ID my carb - Feedback or Non-Feedback?

[Minkheel]

This is the carb on my 1984 F-150 w/300 L6.  

Can anyone tell if it’s the original feedback carb or a non-feedback?

A3FD5B08-FF91-4675-9C21-DCC0829DD882.jpeg

DA64BA9D-9B4B-44D5-A099-0D31A324235A.jpeg

93813F50-6958-4860-82A2-223397232DD9.jpeg

[1986F150Six]

The feedback portion has been altered [removed] as is seen in the 3rd photo. It looks like JB Weld has ben used [at the top].

[Gary Lewis]

1986F150Six wrote

The feedback portion has been altered [removed] as is seen in the 3rd photo. It looks like JB Weld has ben used [at the top].

And that’s going to cause no end of problem if you still have the computer controlling the ignition. Can you show us a pic of the distributor?

[Minkheel]

Here are a couple of the distributor...

57B2736C-2632-4753-9515-6F6FD0B34E07.jpeg

4B279358-695E-48AD-A436-0367577F7BAB.jpeg

Thanks Gary.

[1986F150Six]

Your engine still has the feedback system distributor.

How is your gas mileage and performance. I will guess that you are getting low mileage in town [~9-11 mpg]?

[Gary Lewis]

Yep, and the engine cannot be running correctly. The computer will have its knickers in a twist because it can’t control the carb, so will have the timing locked. And MPG and power will be poor.

You either need to go fully back to the complete emissions system, or change to a DS-II ignition system. Takes a different distributor, ignition module, and harness.

[Minkheel]

Y’all confirmed it for me.  So thanks for that.  Power is very limited and generally running poorly.  I will be converting to a DS-II or similar.

A neighbor who is a mechanic suggested a 2 barrel carb and a points ignition with 12v key on power 3ohm coil.   (His specialty is British sports car restorations not Ford trucks).

That’s all basically greek to me.  

Thoughts?

[FuzzFace2]

I had a feeling that carb was a feed back.
Some have only changed out the dist. for the DSII one and been ok on the carb but I think most swap out both.
Dave ----

[Gary Lewis]

Tell your friend he must be related to The Prince Of Darkness.  (He will understand you just took a shot at the electrical system the Brit cars were cursed with - Lucas.)

I would not go to points.  No way, Jose.  I'd either go DS-II or HEI.  Here are thoughts on both:

DS-II: You just need the correct distributor, coil, ignition module, and wiring harness.  If you aren't going to run EGR then you should have the distributor curved to exclude it, so a stock distributor won't be quite "right", but you can get by with one.  The coil is easy to find, as is the ignition module.  The harder or more expensive part is the wiring harness, but they are available.  Then you have a full Ford ignition system.

HEI: That stands for High Energy Ignition, which is a GM system.  It puts everything, including the coil, in the distributor with a giant cap.  It still needs to be curved for either with or without EGR.  And you need a relay to provide it power.  But it is pretty simple.  And it works.

I'm sure others will chime in with their opinions.  If it was me, I'd consider HEI.  But I'm kinda 51/49 on that.

[FuzzFace2]

Gary Lewis wrote

Tell your friend he must be related to The Prince Of Darkness.  (He will understand you just took a shot at the electrical system the Brit cars were cursed with - Lucas.)

I would not go to points.  No way, Jose.  I'd either go DS-II or HEI.  Here are thoughts on both:

DS-II: You just need the correct distributor, coil, ignition module, and wiring harness.  If you aren't going to run EGR then you should have the distributor curved to exclude it, so a stock distributor won't be quite "right", but you can get by with one.  The coil is easy to find, as is the ignition module.  The harder or more expensive part is the wiring harness, but they are available.  Then you have a full Ford ignition system.

HEI: That stands for High Energy Ignition, which is a GM system.  It puts everything, including the coil, in the distributor with a giant cap.  It still needs to be curved for either with or without EGR.  And you need a relay to provide it power.  But it is pretty simple.  And it works.

I'm sure others will chime in with their opinions.  If it was me, I'd consider HEI.  But I'm kinda 51/49 on that.

On the six that big old cap is kind of down low in the hole so you don't really see it so I don't mine them on the six.
Heck I had one on my Toyota L/C straight six. Came out of the Chevy 250 and dropped right in.
There is also nothing for the vacuum advance can to hit when you go to adjust timing when in the six.

But on the Ford v8's where it is up front just looks all kinds of wrong and the vacuum hits everything and can only get like 5* timing change.
Yep not a fan of the HEI in a Ford v8.
Dave ----

[Minkheel]

What does the EGR do?  Is it necessary if one goes with a non-feedback carb?  Where does it’s vacuum hose go?  

What does recurving a distributor entail?  

[Gary Lewis]

EGR stands for Exhaust Gas Recirculation.  It is a form of including an inert gas into the air/fuel mix.  That slows the combustion process and reduces the oxides of nitrogen in the exhaust, and NOx creates smog.

But with a slower combustion process you need to add the spark a lot earlier in the piston travel.  So distributors that are set up for EGR have a lot more advance in the mid-range, and that is frequently done via the vacuum advance.

Recurving refers to changing the overall curve of the ignition's advance to suit the engine as it is being used.  So, if you remove EGR "recurving" would mean taking out the extra advance associated with EGR.

EGR is not necessary.  Some say it is advantageous as you can get a bit more MPG out of the vehicle with it.  Others say that the complications associated with it and the carbon that is introduced via that system isn't worth it.

[Minkheel]

Does the EGR vac tube attach to the vac advance port on the distributor?

On Tue, Aug 18, 2020 at 1:26 PM Gary Lewis [via Bullnose Enthusiasts] <[hidden email]> wrote:

EGR stands for Exhaust Gas Recirculation.  It is a form of including an inert gas into the air/fuel mix.  That slows the combustion process and reduces the oxides of nitrogen in the exhaust, and NOx creates smog.



But with a slower combustion process you need to add the spark a lot earlier in the piston travel.  So distributors that are set up for EGR have a lot more advance in the mid-range, and that is frequently done via the vacuum advance.



Recurving refers to changing the overall curve of the ignition's advance to suit the engine as it is being used.  So, if you remove EGR "recurving" would mean taking out the extra advance associated with EGR.



EGR is not necessary.  Some say it is advantageous as you can get a bit more MPG out of the vehicle with it.  Others say that the complications associated with it and the carbon that is introduced via that system isn't worth it.

Gary, AKA "Gary fellow": Profile

Dad's: '81 F150 Ranger XLT 4x4: Down for restomod: Full-roller "stroked 351M" w/Trick Flow heads & intake, EEC-V SEFI/E4OD/3.50 gears w/Kevlar clutches




Blue: 2015 F150 Platinum 4x4 SuperCrew wearing Blue Jeans & sporting a 3.5L EB & Max Tow


Big Blue: 1985 F250HD 4x4: 460/ZF5/3.55's, D60 w/Ox locker in front & 10.25 Spicer/Trutrac in back, & EEC-V MAF/SEFI

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NAML

[Gary Lewis]

No.  My understanding is that your computer, ECU, controls solenoid valves that apply vacuum to the EGR valve.

[Minkheel]

Ok.  Another question.  So if I replace the carb and the ignition and don’t use the EGR to keep things as simple as possible, would an HEI distributor like this — that is specifically for a 300 L6 Ford engine — need recurving?  

https://www.summitracing.com/parts/sum-850033

On Tue, Aug 18, 2020 at 2:02 PM Gary Lewis [via Bullnose Enthusiasts] <[hidden email]> wrote:

No.  My understanding is that your computer, ECU, controls solenoid valves that apply vacuum to the EGR valve.

Gary, AKA "Gary fellow": Profile

Dad's: '81 F150 Ranger XLT 4x4: Down for restomod: Full-roller "stroked 351M" w/Trick Flow heads & intake, EEC-V SEFI/E4OD/3.50 gears w/Kevlar clutches




Blue: 2015 F150 Platinum 4x4 SuperCrew wearing Blue Jeans & sporting a 3.5L EB & Max Tow


Big Blue: 1985 F250HD 4x4: 460/ZF5/3.55's, D60 w/Ox locker in front & 10.25 Spicer/Trutrac in back, & EEC-V MAF/SEFI

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NAML

[86 1/2 Brutus]

Please dont use HEI you are asking for trouble.  If you are already setup for Tfi, then relocate your module to the fender wall.  if you are setup for Duraspark, leave the Duraspark.  Duraspark gets a bad rep and it truely is not.  Many of those shiny Mallory Ignition boxes that were available at the time were nothing more then repainte duraspark boxes.    

[Gary Lewis]

I don't know.  They don't seem to say if it is set up for EGR or not.

But at $300 it is pricey.  Scott Johnston @ Parkland Automotive will curve a new DS-II distributor for you for $200.  You'll need the DS-II module and some wiring.


George - His TFI is controlled by the computer, so he needs to change it.  And the HEI's aren't a problem, especially on the 300.  Several guys on here are running them.

[86 1/2 Brutus]

Looks like the same egr system as Brutus has, ( had ) i look at the pics of the carb at the top, is the same thing i have

[86 1/2 Brutus]

Gary.    Glad to hear that, i was considering doing it on the Ranchero, but left it alone.  I've heard horror stories about them.  I  do know back in the day they gave more trouble then the duraspark did ( factory ) but if they are working, awesome.

[86 1/2 Brutus]

but without a computer, what about the yfa?