Greetings from Washington State

[CRittaler]

Hello!  My name is Chris and I am originally from Victoria BC, Canada an am now residing in Marysville, WA.  My background is Electrical Engineering with a focus on Electromagnetics and Photonics.  The majority of my work background has been in the world of RF transmission and reception, specifically repeater infrastructure that emergency services use to communicate between each other and dispatch.

I purchased this basket case 1985 F250 XLT a couple of weeks ago.  What I know about the truck:

460 gas engine was replaced with a reman ~3 years ago.  The previous previous owner gave the paperwork for the work to the person I bought the truck off of.

The previous owner swapped the C6 auto for a ZF5-42 and transfer case intending to swap to 4x4 at some point in the future.

The truck is originally from California so it has suffered a lot of UV damage, mostly to the paint, bench seat and door cards.

Because it's a 460 from California and has factory AC is also came with the hot fuel option.  The previous owner has hacked up the fuel system to install an inline fuel pump on the frame rail.  The 6 port FSV is missing and was replaced with 2 3 port FSV and a manual toggle switch was installed to select the appropriate sending unit.  At some point during the fuel work they ran out of hose clamps and instead decided that zip ties were appropriate to clamp the fuel hose over the now hacked up nylon fuel line.

I've been working on repairing the wiring harness under the truck since it's been hacked up and I've also been tracking down the trailer brake wiring that has also been hacked up.

The truck came with the canopy in the picture and was full of spare parts including a D50 TTB front axle to complete the 4x4 swap.

This is my first Ford product and my first big block.  My other vehicles are my daily driver, a 1988 Suzuki Samurai, and my project car, a 1968 Dodge Dart.

I'm looking forward to scouring the forums for information and will likely have a lot of questions as I am not familiar with Ford workings.

[ArdWrknTrk]

Welcome Chris!  

While a D50 front axle is appropriate for an extended cab 250; swapping coil springs for leaves, boxing in the front of the frame to put shackles and swapping out the crossmember under the engine are BIG tasks.

While the truck has seen some weathering, be glad it hasn't spent winters in salt country.
(Superficial rather than structural damage)

I can help you straighten out the fuel system.
There were a number of changes to Hot Fuel Handling over the years.

Lastly I had a '64 Dart, slant six 3-on-the-tree back in high school.
Fun being the oddball!

[grumpin]

Welcome!

[CRittaler]

I am interested in looking into it.  The PO included a lot of bracketry off of the 4x4 he was scavenging parts from.  I recognize some of them as spring hangers and leaf spring plates.  I want to sort out the other issues with the truck first since it drives fine as a 2WD.

I have to sort the wiring and fuel issues, the power steering pump is hosed (PO used regular power steering fluid in it) and the brake booster is toast.  I have a small coolant leak from a short hose that runs from timing cover to the intake if I am remembering correctly.

This truck is dual purpose, it's not likely to be a daily driver since I have the Samurai for that, but sometimes I need to make a run to the dump or pick up house supplies that wont fit in mine or my wifes car lol.

[ArdWrknTrk]

The coolant bypass hose can be changed with the water pump in place if you cut it just the right length and fold it in half to get it onto the nipples front and back.

If the wiring and fuel lines are a mess the first thing to determine is if both in-tank pumps are delivering to spec.
Then we can fix the selector valve(s!?)

I'm not sure that power steering fluid trashed that pump.
Though Ford calls for type-F, the C2 pumps seem pretty resilient.
I can hear one turn a corner from a block away now that I know what I'm hearing.

[CRittaler]

Good to know about the bypass hose, I'll have a look.

With regards to the wiring of the tank pumps, I was able to reach up and remove the plug from the front tank, where I discovered that the pump power wire was cut ~1" from the connector.  I spliced new wire from the plug down to the harness where the front pump wire was cut as well.  I then used a car jumpstart box to kick the pump on, it made noise, no idea what the output was though.

The rear pump is the same, I used an inspection camera to look at the wiring since my hands are too big to reach the connector and it has the same issue, the power wire was cut ~1" from the connector and cut again down by the main rear harness, I have to get the fuel out of the tank so that I can drop it low enough to get the tank connector off and fix the wiring.

The pump is leaking pretty severely so I have a replacement on hand.  I have to flush the old fluid out of the box while I wait for my power steering pulley remover to arrive from Amazon.

Here's a preview of what I'm working with.

ArdWrknTrk wrote

The coolant bypass hose can be changed with the water pump in place if you
cut it just the right length and fold it in half to get it onto the nipples
front and back.

If the wiring and fuel lines are a mess the first thing to determine is if
both in-tank pumps are delivering to spec.
Then we can fix the selector valve(s!?)

I'm not sure that power steering fluid trashed that pump.
Though Ford calls for type-F, the C2 pumps seem pretty resilient.
I can hear one turn a corner from a block away now that I know what I'm
hearing.

Quoted from:
http://forum.garysgaragemahal.com/Greetings-from-Washington-State-tp83695p83700.html

[ArdWrknTrk]

Uf!
They really did butcher the wiring.    

 strikes again!  
That filter is trussed up like a Christmas goose!

The pump volume should be a quart in 15 seconds.
This is found in the TSB, that can be found. 'Documentation'>fuel systems>460>TSB's

If the harness and hoses are hacked, the best answer is a Pollak six port switch valve kit with the wiring pigtail.
I have found these on eBay for $74 delivered to your door.
The same switch is sold as Wells, Airtek, SMP, Duralast and others, but all cost more and don't include the harness plug.

IIRC your '85 switches senders in the valve and not at the switch like my '87.





Before you pull the pulley off your power steering note if the belts align and if the pump shaft is flush with the front of the sheave.
This is your reference upon replacement. 💡

Just use the new pump to purge the box.
Remove the return line, fill the reservoir, crank the truck over with the coil wire removed or leave the belt off and turn by hand.
This will pump the reservoir dry, purge the box and return line.
Un-cap the reservoir return, connect the hose, refill, start the engine and turn the wheel lock to lock a couple of times.
This purges any air out of the system.

With the C2 never turn the wheel without the engine running.
It will pee fluid all over the underside of the hood (or everywhere if the hood is open)

[ArdWrknTrk]

CRittaler wrote

Here's a preview of what I'm working with.

The zip ties on the return line are probably ok as there should be no pressure there.
Not RIGHT, but not 'likely to cause an inferno' either...

Look at the documentation under 'fuel systems'>460 fuel systems, and note the TSB tab for test procedures.

[Gary Lewis]

Welcome!  Glad you joined.  

I think we've had some communications about that truck on FB.  Hopefully their aren't two trucks butchered like that.  

Looks like you and Jim have things going already.  Another you need to hear from is Shaun/salans7.  He can help you understand what is involved in converting a 2wd F250 to 4wd which, as Jim said, isn't the easiest of tasks.

Was it you that I was talking with about the fuel line connectors?

Last, we have a map (Bullnose Forum/Member's Map in the menu) and we'd be happy to add you - with your permission.

[Gary Lewis]

Oh,  forgot about the Dart!  Tell us more, please.  I have its big brother, a '69 Bee.

[85lebaront2]

Welcome to our group! FYI, hot fuel handling package was pretty well standard with AC from some point in 1984 through 1987 on the 460 trucks.

I have a 1986 chassis harness from my crew cab when I converted to EFI. It is 35" longer in front than the standard cab and is missing the plug for the 6 port valve. Since the valve and pigtail are available it is probably what you need. I also have the trailer tow harness (I think) and all of it is just taking up space.

[CRittaler]

I'm going to respond to a couple posts at the same time here.

grumpin wrote

 Welcome!

Thanks!

ArdWrknTrk wrote

Uf!
They really did butcher the wiring.    

 strikes again!  
That filter is trussed up like a Christmas goose!

Yeah, they butchered the wiring pretty good.  The sending unit wires run up into the cab to a separate switch at the moment.  This is some of the worst of it, but there are butt connectors everywhere, sometimes splicing 2 inches of wire.

ArdWrknTrk wrote

The pump volume should be a quart in 15 seconds.
This is found in the TSB, that can be found. 'Documentation'>fuel systems>460>TSB's

If the harness and hoses are hacked, the best answer is a Pollak six port switch valve kit with the wiring pigtail.
I have found these on eBay for $74 delivered to your door.
The same switch is sold as Wells, Airtek, SMP, Duralast and others, but all cost more and don't include the harness plug.

IIRC your '85 switches senders in the valve and not at the switch like my '87.

I was considering one of the Pollak knock offs, specifically I was looking at the U7001.  My main concern is that they appear to have the hose barbs for rubber fuel line and I appear to have Nylon, at least some of it it.

I've been looking at: One of these since it has the quick connect style connectors.  I was planning on replacing all the nylon lines just to be certain it's all good.  I have also considered jut replumbing it all with high pressure injection hose, but I haven't done the cost analysis to see what is cheaper.

ArdWrknTrk wrote

Before you pull the pulley off your power steering note if the belts align and if the pump shaft is flush with the front of the sheave.
This is your reference upon replacement. 💡

Just use the new pump to purge the box.
Remove the return line, fill the reservoir, crank the truck over with the coil wire removed or leave the belt off and turn by hand.
This will pump the reservoir dry, purge the box and return line.
Un-cap the reservoir return, connect the hose, refill, start the engine and turn the wheel lock to lock a couple of times.
This purges any air out of the system.

With the C2 never turn the wheel without the engine running.
It will pee fluid all over the underside of the hood (or everywhere if the hood is open)

Thank you for this information on the pump!  My plan was to use the currently leaking pump to  purge the steering box with the method you describe and then replacing the pump.  I might just purge the pump and box and clean the area, there's always a change the PO didn't know not to turn the wheels when the truck was off.

Gary Lewis wrote

Welcome!  Glad you joined.  

I think we've had some communications about that truck on FB.  Hopefully their aren't two trucks butchered like that.  

Looks like you and Jim have things going already.  Another you need to hear from is Shaun/salans7.  He can help you understand what is involved in converting a 2wd F250 to 4wd which, as Jim said, isn't the easiest of tasks.

Was it you that I was talking with about the fuel line connectors?

Last, we have a map (Bullnose Forum/Member's Map in the menu) and we'd be happy to add you - with your permission.

Hi Gary,

You are correct, we have done some communicating on the FB group, so, thankfully to our knowledge this is the only truck butchered like this.

Thanks for the information on who to reach out to.  I think the truck came with most of the parts, but there was a lot of bracketry that had been cut off of another truck.

We were discussing the fuel line connectors, yes.  I am torn between replacing all the nylon lines and using the FSV I linked above, or replacing the lines with rubber and using the Pollak valve.  I have also considered replumbing the 2 3 way valves and wiring in a waterproof relay like what you have for the sending unit selection.  Lots to mull over.

I have a Lisle 39000 Power steering pulley remover/installer on the way as well as the Dorman nylon install tool, but they're a week or so out according to Amazon.

Feel free to add me to the map, Marysville WA.

Gary lewis wrote

Oh,  forgot about the Dart!  Tell us more, please.  I have its big brother, a '69 Bee.

I bought the Dart probably 12 years ago or so, I can't really remember lol.  it's a 4 door, slant 6 automatic so nothing too special.  225 slant six.  I've been working on it off and on over the time I've had it.  Unfortunately it's back at my mother's place in Canada so I can't take any recent pictures.  Eventually I will have this truck running well enough to make the trip to Sooke BC to visit and finally haul it out of my mothers driveway, lol.

85lebaront2 wrote

Welcome to our group! FYI, hot fuel handling package was pretty well standard with AC from some point in 1984 through 1987 on the 460 trucks.

I have a 1986 chassis harness from my crew cab when I converted to EFI. It is 35" longer in front than the standard cab and is missing the plug for the 6 port valve. Since the valve and pigtail are available it is probably what you need. I also have the trailer tow harness (I think) and all of it is just taking up space.

Thanks for the welcome!

Thanks for the offer!  I'm going to work on splicing the harness for the time being.  It's nice to solder big stuff for once, I don't have to use a microscope for this.  I might actually hit up a local scrap yard and see if they have any of the bullnose that I could snag the harness from for patching purposes.

The trailer wiring I had was all aftermarket I believe.  I have an older Tekonsha brake controller attached to the driver side kick panel and some circuit breakers bolted to the driver side fender.

[Gary Lewis]

You are now on the map.

As for the valve, connectors, etc, I don't know what the best way is, but the connectors aren't cheap.  But if you have the tool they make for a nice, factory, installation.

On the Dart, we had a '61 Valiant, very much like your Dart.  It was a daily driver and with the slant six it ran nicely.  Would love to have it back!

[ArdWrknTrk]

I thought the switch valve was missing and two others were in its place?
The picture you show of a fuel filter is just rubber hose.
I didn't assume nylon quicklocks were part of the plan, or anywhere to be found.
Pollak is the supplier. It's not a knockoff, they just don't make the ones with quicklocks and a Ford oval for public consumption.

If the wiring is jacked and the hoses cut I sure as hell wouldn't pay Ford $400 for a switch valve I can buy for $75 complete with plug.

It's a good idea you have using the old pump to purge the old fluid.
I guess I'm always looking to save steps, but I guess it doesn't matter if it happens when the return line comes off, or before it goes on

[Rembrant]

Welcome aboard Chris. I'm one of of the regular Canucks on here, but I'm on the opposite coast from BC;).

Nice truck. The trim/molding that was removed from the outside is no longer available, but you probably already know that.

[CRittaler]

You are correct in that the 6 port valve is missing and was replaced by 2 3 way valves.  It's hard to see in the pictures, but the return line that is clamped with zip ties is clamped onto some of the nylon tubing that is brown in color.  Further back on the left side of the picture is one of the 3 way valves with a chunk of rubber hos clamped to some blue nylon tubing.

I fully intend on using one of the aftermarket valves it's just if I want to use the pollak style and replace all the fuel lines with hi pressure injection hose or use the later style 6 port that has the quick connects and replace the nylon tubing and connectors.  I'm somewhat concerned about the longevity of injection hose in the tank area since it's hard to get to.

Sent via the physical keyboard on my Unhertz Titan

[ArdWrknTrk]

There's nothing "high pressure" about any part of this system.
I could get behind FI style hose clamps, but honestly we'll all be dead before ethanol compatible regular fuel line fails in this application.