Gary's "Nothing Special" Moab trip

[Nothing Special]

I kind of thought it wasn't actually a part of the truck, but I thought I'd make sure!

The one recovery point that works at both ends should be fine.  I could easily imagine either one of us needing to give the other a tug, or to provide an anchor point for the other's winch.  But we're not going to do anything that requires chaining a third vehicle in or anchoring to a tree or anything!

[Gary Lewis]

We have a plan, Stan!  But I'm still bringing my tree saver and lots of chain, in addition to the winch.  And maybe by then a few more recovery items.  

[Nothing Special]

Not a bad call, but probably not all necessary.  With two vehicles we'll be able to use each other as an anchor generally.  I'd encourage you to bring the tree saver, but I'm not sure the weight of the chain is warranted.

I'll have my winch, a tree saver, a 20' tow strap and a high lift jack.  I also usually bring a come-along and some heavy rope, but I keep thinking I should stop doing that since I haven't used any of that since getting a winch.


And for what it's worth, I often see people say that you shouldn't use chain in vehicle recovery.  I think that's probably important advice if people are trying to use it in place of a kinetic rope   But I don't see it being particularly dangerous as a winch extension, or as an anchor point when wrapped around a boulder.  Still, actual winch extensions (generally the same material as your winch rope) and tow straps / tree savers are probably at least as good (respectively) while being a lot lighter and easier to handle.

[Gary Lewis]

I also have the high lift jack, and am thinking about getting a kinetic recovery rope/strap.

I carry the chain because when I'm using the trailer I use it on the rear of the vehicle.  However, it takes a lot to lift the bag it is in out of the toolbox, so leaving it behind for this trip is a good idea.

I could bring a come-along, but surely we won't need it.  However I do have one or two very heavy ratchet straps in.  But I don't have any rope that heavy.

[grumpin]

I'm reading with curiosity as to how you're doing things off road.

Is this the hook you were talking about Bob?

https://www.harborfreight.com/receiver-tow-hook-95594.html

[Nothing Special]

I've thought about a kinetic rope and would love to have one.  But they are expensive and I've never seen a need for one in Moab.  In sand or snow it works well to get a run at pulling someone out.  But in rocks a slow, steady pull is best, and a normal tow strap is great for that.  So sure, get one if you want.  But I don't think it will be needed on this trip.

A heavy ratchet strap or two might be really good to have.  I have lighter ones, but I've seen people use a heavy one to squeeze a tire down to help reseat a bead on a tire.  I've never lost a bead, but if it happens it would be good to have options to fix it.

[Gary Lewis]

Dane - I don't know what hook Bob is thinking of, but the one I have is solid in the middle.  So I'd say it is several times stronger than the one from HF.

However, I don't know if that is required as I don't know where the weak link is.  But the tube of the receiver looks to have thicker walls than the HF part, and the whole hitch is held to the frame with eight 5/8" G8 bolts, so I'm guessing that the HF part would be the weak link.

Bob - Good idea on re-seating a bead.  I have one strap in and could easily add another.  And with 200 psi in my onboard air system I'll bet we can get a bead seated.  

[Nothing Special]

Where was I talking abut a hook?  But no, I personally would get that type of hook (oops, typo.  I meant to say I wouldn't get that type of hook).  I like the closed shackles like Gary showed a few posts ago.  Pluto has tabs on both bumpers for them.

[grumpin]

That's funny! I saw both my hook and shackle hitches in the garage today.

[Nothing Special]

Nothing Special wrote

....  Another thing I've seen is people have a pintle hook in the receiver....

Looking back I think this is what I said that made you think of a hook.  But I wasn't talking about a hook, I was talking about a pintle hitch, also called a pintle hook (see that link for an example).

That works as a STRONG recovery point, and also a smooth, solid piece to skid across the rocks.

But now seeing how low Big Blue's receiver is with respect his bumper, I don't think the additional protection from a pintle hook would be worth the cost in departure angle.

And to Gary's point about the strength of the closed shackle vs an open hook, I'm sure that's true.  But my main thought is that a strap (or whatever) can come off a hook if you let the tension off, while the closed shackle is not going to let it go.

By the way, the piece of equipment I'm calling a shackle is called shackle, hard shackle, bow shackle or D-ring in the 'wheeling community.  The rigging industry (where it actually comes from) calls it a clevis.

Another option that I'd like to get into is a soft shackle.  They have a lot more flexibility (no pun intended) around where you can connect them.  And they're soft and light, so they don't become a projectile if something breaks.  But they don't give them away!  And since I'm still using a wire rope on my winch the safety aspect of the soft shackle is kind of wasted, so I haven't gone that route yet.

[grumpin]

OK, yes, a pintle, pictures help.

Funny about the clevis nomenclature.

When I was Heli-logging we had a front end loader operator who found out I was from the Midwest.

He grabs a shackle and comes up to me and tells everybody to listen, then he asks me what it is, I said a shackle, he say see, and then I said or a clevis, because that's what the loggers called them, and everybody chuckled and he says no, he said shackle first.

Those guys had been teasing him for a while. Big guy, but man could he move some logs!

[Gary Lewis]

Interesting.  I followed Bob's link on the soft shackle and found this statement:

Typically, in recovery, there's a metal D-Shackle (aka Clevis, Bow Shackle, thingumajig, tow point or whatever you call it in your local dialect).

So apparently that's a much-debated topic.  I recognize most of those terms, although I did learn a new term, or a different spelling for an old term: thingumajig.

And, by the way, I do have a soft shackle although I've never used it.  My theory is that if you have the right equipment then you won't need it.  So I acquire recovery equipment to ensure I don't need it.  

[Nothing Special]

Going back to the trip-planning discussion, as we talked about earlier the four of us were planning on three trail days, so that's what I laid out above.  But Lesley and I will be out there for five days, and you and Janey will be there at least the three days and possibly four or five.  So I don't know that we need to plan out two more days, but I thought they might be worth a little thought.

Lesley and I are planning to take one day for ourselves and go to Capitol Reef National Park.  It doesn't matter to us which day we use for that.  I do want to do Sevenmile Rim on the first of our five days, but if by that time you know you will be staying for four or five days and you want to do something other than trails on day two or three, then Lesley and I could stick Capitol Reef in there and we could finish up the trails a day later.  Or if you want to do the three trail days, or even add a fourth, all in a row, we can do Capitol Reef on day four or day five, whatever works out.

As for the fifth day, we'll probably add more trails.  If you want to add another trail day we can pick something while we are out there, after figuring out what kind of trail you are finding to be fun.

[Gary Lewis]

Bob - Sorry for the late response, but I've been noodling on this.

As you know, we have 5 days of hotel rooms reserved at present.  Not sure we'll keep all of them, but I think we will 'cause we'll have already spent the money for the gas to get there and back, so why not?

That being the case we will also be looking for other things to do, assuming we stay with three trail days.  And since the trails will be pushing Janey's limits I think we'll want to do something else on the other days.  So maybe Arches National Park or Canyonlands?

I see that Arches needs a reservation.  This site says "Annual passes cover the payment of entrance fees, so annual or senior pass holders only need to pay the $2 reservation fee."  But Canyonlands doesn't.

So we do need to sort out if we are going to Arches and, if so, which day.  But this pic kinda puts me off:

[Gary Lewis]

Just found this on Facebook and thought I'd remember it if I put it here:

[Nothing Special]

A few thoughts on Arches and Canyonlands...

We were at Arches in 2019.  They didn't have the reservation requirement then, but I believe it was in place by our second Moab trip in 2021.

I could well be wrong, but that picture looks to me to be the entrance road.  I'm not sure if the delay is still that bad now with the reservations, but it definitely looked like that in the afternoons during our trip in 2019!  The day we went we got to the park before sunrise and there was no line.  But I don't know if you can do that now with the reservations.

It was crowded in the park.  We took our time working our way north and by the time we got to the Devil's Garden area we had to loop it three times before I found a place I could park (and that was sort of in a ditch).  If we do it again I'd go straight to the northern end and then work our way back to the entrance/exit at the south end.

There is a "Jeep trail" into the middle of Arches that gives an option to skip the entry gate line.  I don't know how that works with the reservations.  But I also don't know much about the trail.  It's listed in the guide book as trail 14, Willow Springs Road and is rated as Easy, but other than that you know as much about it as I do.  Going in there relatively early in the morning, heading up to Devil's Garden and then working south might be a good way to go, and if you're allowed to go in that way without a reservation it would open options a lot.  But I don't know how that works.

I don't think Canyonlands is as bad as Arches for crowds, but I think the wait can get long.  The time we went (in 2021) we got there about 9:00 in the morning and had about a 5 minute wait to get in.

The Shafer Switchbacks gives a back-door option for Canyonlands.  If you go out on Potash Road and go up the switchbacks to get to the park you don't go through the entry gate, so you wouldn't need to wait in line.  Lesley and I didn't really love Potash Road, so I'm not saying that's a great idea.  But it is a scenic drive along the Colorado River, under the cliffs of Dead Horse State Park.  Doing it at the start of a day might make it a really nice drive.

[Gary Lewis]

Jeff/Big Brother showed us the video he took of their fun on Shafer Switchbacks, and it looked fun.  I guess Potash Road is long but bumpy?  He didn't have a way to air back up so didn't air down, but we would and that might make all the difference.

So that might be a good one-day excursion.  But the other day, assuming two "off-the-trail" days might be spent in Moab - assuming there's shopping to do.  Tee shirts or trinkets for the grands.  Or is it too small for allotting a day?  I'm guessing that it and Ouray are about the same size and a morning is too long for Ouray.

[Nothing Special]

Potash road is a long slog.  With aired down tires and the proper mindset it could perhaps be a very nice drive.  I don't recall if we aired down for it or not, and at the end of a day where we had probably hiked about 3 miles we weren't in the proper mindset.  So all I can tell you is that we didn't appreciate the road much, but I've heard that others have and I can believe that it might be a lot better than what we experienced.  Don't consider this a recommendation so much as offering an option for your consideration!

Can you spend a full day in Moab?  I suppose that depends on how much of the time you want to spend sitting over a morning coffee, sitting over lunch, sitting over a sundae or shake and sitting over dinner.  If all you want to do is walk up and down the main street and check out the shops I think a half a day will be more than enough.  On our trips we've gone into town most evenings and spent an hour or so.  We doubled up some things and certainly didn't feel like we'd missed anything we really cared about.

There are some other options in the area, like checking out some dinosaur track fossils, a few different areas with petroglyphs, Dead Horse State Park, the La Sal Mountains ....  I'm sure you'll be able to fill a day pretty easily!

[BigBrother-84]

Gary Lewis wrote

Just found this on Facebook and thought I'd remember it if I put it here:

We took the same picture, from probably the exact same point.
Transferring our picture coordinates on a map, this pict was certainly took after the two first hairpin turns, pointing in that direction (blue arrow on the zoomed plan):



Six hairpins turns that we (Christine, me and of course Big Bro) will remember for the rest of our lives!
Not easy for a 20 feet manual transmission school bus...

[Gary Lewis]

Cool!

I don't think we'll have as much trouble on the hairpins given the shorter wheelbase, but it still might be fun.