Fixing Eddie

[firefire]

Hi.
Yesteday I found out that the vacuum advance valve is adjustable. So I took it off and found that an unbraco 1/8 " fits. My vacuum valve was adjusted all in. The lowest spring pressure against membran/ vacuum. Adjusted it all out, 18 turns, resulted in much more spring pressure.  After this vacuum valve started moving at -5hg and reached max pull at -14hg. So today I put it back. The most difficult part was not loosing and mounting this little clip.  
With vacuum connected the engine runs fine at idle , 600 rpm. Ignition 5 BTDC. At 2000rpm 28 BTDC. 3000 rpm 32 BTDC. I think this is closer to correct timing.
Then I still have this problem that the engine hesitates and/or stops when I give it throttle. From a stand still or from just slowly driving. Today I tried adjusting up higher idle with the idle screw. Didnt get higher idle, but backfire The accelerator pump was adjusted to max early pump. Tried to back it off again. Didnt help. Is it an idea to try to adjust the secondary throttle blades to a more open position ? I can see they are closed good. If so, do somebody know which unbraco size or what fits that invisible screw head ?
Greetings from Norway.

[Gary Lewis]

I think your adjustment will make a big difference, and those vacuum numbers are a lot closer to what I would have expected.

On the hesitation or stalling, that's frequently due to a bad accelerator pump.  Do you know for sure that it is working?  I would pull the air cleaner and, with the engine off, briskly open the throttle and see if you have two jets of fuel going into the carb.

If so, then I'd open the idle mix screws from 1/4 to 1/2 turn and see if that helps.  Otherwise, I'm lost.

And by the way, you might up your initial timing to 8 degrees BTDC and see if it helps overall.

[grumpin]

I agree with Gary, one other thing is go up a number or 2 on the jets. I did with mine and it helped with a hesitation I had when the engine wasn’t warmed up.

It’s my understanding that the secondaries opening too soon will cause a bog or hesitation.

[ArdWrknTrk]

Dane, he's talking about using the stop screw to crack the blade, not installing different springs, which changes how fast they would open (once the lockout linkage would allow it)

I agree with Gary.
I think you want at least 8° initial.
Many of us will use up to 12°
But that depends on how wide a slot we have in the centrifugal advance limiter.

[FuzzFace2]

Gary Lewis wrote

I think your adjustment will make a big difference, and those vacuum numbers are a lot closer to what I would have expected.

On the hesitation or stalling, that's frequently due to a bad accelerator pump.  Do you know for sure that it is working?  I would pull the air cleaner and, with the engine off, briskly open the throttle and see if you have two jets of fuel going into the carb.

If so, then I'd open the idle mix screws from 1/4 to 1/2 turn and see if that helps.  Otherwise, I'm lost.

And by the way, you might up your initial timing to 8 degrees BTDC and see if it helps overall.

As for the "briskly open the throttle" it may squirt but if you go easy like when driving you may not get it to squirt so try to move throttle easy also.

ArdWrknTrk wrote

Dane, he's talking about using the stop screw to crack the blade, not installing different springs, which changes how fast they would open (once the lockout linkage would allow it)

I agree with Gary.
I think you want at least 8° initial.
Many of us will use up to 12°
But that depends on how wide a slot we have in the centrifugal advance limiter.

The stop screw is used when the idle speed screw is turned in to much and the idle mixture screws do nothing. You would open the secondary throttle just a little (it causes a controlled vacuum leak) and you can then lower the idle speed so the mixture screws will work.

FYI on a v2 carb that dose not have a secondary throttle you would need to drill small holes on the throttle blades to cause a vacuum leak. Go to big and you will never get the idle speed screw to work!

On the timing I would bump it up to 10* - 12* BTDC as long as you dont get pinging.
Dave ----

[ArdWrknTrk]

It's not a "vacuum leak" if the throttle plate is exposing the transfer ports....

[FuzzFace2]

ArdWrknTrk wrote

It's not a "vacuum leak" if the throttle plate is exposing the transfer ports....

No I meant when you use the little screw to open the secondaries a little (the vacuum leak) so you can close the primary side to close the transfer slot some.
Dave ----

[firefire]

Hi all. Thanks for your feedback. I cleaned the accelerator pump nozzle. It had restrictions. Much better spray afterwards. Tried 12btdc. Still stalling. Then I took off the carburetor. There was a tiny exhaust leak from under the EGR plate. Manifested itself as waterdrops after cold start. Split the carburetor. Had one set of plastic gliders/ sealing for the primary throtlle axle. A pain to get them on the axle. No room for my fingers.  Cleaned the axle for the secondary. Oiled and back in. When I tried to fasten the throttle blades a screw head went off. Very easily too.  Drilled out the holes for 6mm screws. Does look bad. I know. Adjusted blades to that tiny little slot opening. First start Eddie wouldnt idle at all. Had to open the idle mixture screws more than a turn up. Got -16hg. Now he is hesitating when about only rolling at a little more than idle. A little back firing to. When I give throttle he is good  I seriously consider buying a new Holley 4160, 0-80452. As far as I understand it will fit right in ? Or do you have other alternatives ?
Greetings from Norway.

[ArdWrknTrk]

If the carb is spitting back and the engine power is down check for a slack cam chain.

I have used the Holley 0-80457-S in place of the 4180.
I am not sure what the difference is to the ...452
Perhaps that model has the kickdown linkage for your automatic transmission?

[grumpin]

I used the same carburetor Jim mentioned. It hooked right up to my linkage, I have an automatic transmission.

https://www.holley.com/products/fuel_systems/carburetors/street/parts/0-80457S

[ArdWrknTrk]

They also offer a 0-80453

I do not know what the difference is.
I do know the 80457s doesn't have the dichromate finish and is $200 less.

[firefire]

Hi Jim. Or somebody else who knows
Do somebody have the part number for the Motorcraft gasket under the EGR plate on my 351W 1986 ?
And is there somebody who have actually mounted a Holley 4160 , specify which model, on the 1986 351W ?

[ArdWrknTrk]

Let me see if I can find an updated Motorcraft EGR gasket for the 351.
The 460's started using a pink polymer gasket to avoid the blowouts common with the laminated metal ones.

The 351 EGR plate port is square instead of the 'ear' on a 460.

[firefire]

Hi again. Keep on peeling layers off this onion.... Have not ordered new carburetor yet. Cant decide on which. There is also packages with carburetor and intake manifold. I wouldnt mind getting rid of the EGR system. Will a non egr manifold be compatible with my engine ? Holley sells carburetor with Weiand Stealth intake. I have also learned that the timed vacuum shall be 0 at idle.Not so with my old 4180C. This weekend I decided to pull the transmission off. To fix the oil leak at the back of the engine. Oil must out, all oil pipes, mechanical connections, exhaust, transfer case, crossmember, .. A motorcycle jack is nice when you are working on the ground. The oil seal on the crankshaft was leaking. Replaced it with a new from Timken. I used the old seal to get the new knocked in.New seal No traces of leaks elsewere. Incidents ? The six bolts that held the "flywheel" were very hard to get loose. Exept one. The head  fell off with almost no resistance when I tried to screw the bolt out. Somebody must have been to hard when they mounted this back on. Will try to find 6 new bolts. They  probably changed the seal on the crankshaft. If you look at the photos you can probably tell if the old seal is original or not. Converter, new or old ? Flywheel.AluplateOld seal and broken bolt in crankshaft.Removed the piping for the smog pump. Thought about how to block the hole. Then I saw the hole was treaded.A bolt with diameter 15,6mm fits, 0,615" .11 threads per inch.( or 12, not sure how you count them ). Well, enough for now

[ArdWrknTrk]

Yes, Ford does not use ported vacuum for these DSII distributors.
If you have a vacuum diagram on the radiator support you will see manifold vacuum goes to the thermal vacuum valve, and then through a vacuum restriction (or if overheating, directly to the distributor)

The thermactor ports in the back of the heads are tapped 5/8-11 NC.

[Gary Lewis]

Wow!  That's a lot of work!  Made me tired just reading it.  

Changing the rear seal in the truck is a huge pain.  I've not done it on a 460, but have a on a 351W and vowed to never do it again.  So I'm in awe that you got it done.  

A non-EGR intake will be compatible with your engine.  But, the distributor was tuned to give a lot more advance than one w/o EGR due to the inert gas which slows combustion and needs an early spark.  That was probably done via the vacuum advance since it is when vacuum is high that they introduce the exhaust gas.  But since you turned the adjustment all the way to the other end in the vacuum advance unit you may be well positioned to run w/o EGR.

[ArdWrknTrk]

The split/rope seal for a 460 is 'challenging' when you can't get the pan off to drop the crank.

That looks like a 1 piece seal to me.

[Gary Lewis]

Yes, it certainly does!  Interesting.  When did the 460 go to that?

[ArdWrknTrk]

You are looking at a 351.

The 460 always had a split seal.

[Gary Lewis]

Duh!