Edelbrock on a stockish 460?

[ArdWrknTrk]

Changed my plugs/cap/rotor yesterday.
Other than burning oil in #7 the engine looks like it's very lean even though mileage has been deteriorating and it drives like it's fat until fully warmed up.

The truck has a six year old Holley 08457-s now, but due to current lack of shop, driveway, space, time and money I'm thinking to just swap it out.

Since both Gary and Bill are here I'm going to ask:

600 or 750?
AFB or AVS?
And why?


Want to keep stock aircleaner and an electric choke.(yes I know stator v/ 12V)

[Gary Lewis]

Gotta ask how high you'll rev it.  The 600's I've used on 351's were good to at least 5500 RPM, but that's only 4,200 R's on a 460.  And Tim strongly urged me to go 750 on Dad's since he's seen the vacuum come high enough with a 600 on a 400/408 to bring in the vaccum advance and cause all sorts of grief.

But, you also asked about AFB (Performer in Edelbrock speak) vs the AVS (Thunder).  The AFB/Performer comes in 600 and 750 CFM varieties, but the Thunder comes in 650 and 800 CFM.  The 650 might be enough on a 460 if you keep the R's down to 4,500 or so, and would obviously give better metering at part-throttle than the 800.

I prefer the AVS because of the ease of adjusting the point where the secondaries come in.  On the AFB/Performer you have to completely disassemble the carb and grind weight off of, or add weight to, an arm that is buried inside the carb.  On the AVS/Thunder you just put your Allen wrench in a screw, loosen the set screw, and then dial in more/less preload.  However, I'll be honest and say that I've really not found a huge advantage in adjusting the point where the secondaries come in unless you are racing - and I know you aren't.

Well, I doubt I answered the questions, but the bottom line is I'd vote for a 650 Thunder or a 750 Performer.  You can usually find a used Performer for about half of a Thunder, so....

[ArdWrknTrk]

Well the "RV" cam in my engine is real crap on top.
5K and it begins to wheeze.
So I should be looking for a 650 to rebuild (because $ is an issue *always* it seems)

I don't want to cripple myself even though this Holley is a 600 where the stock 4180 was closer to 650.

I appreciate the tuning advice Gary.
If you ever find yourself confronted with Weber or SU's lmk....

Hopefully Bill will see this.
I guess I am the one to get the ball rolling.   Lol

Recently I've replaced the diff cover, rear spring perches, bought a D60 (dually) axle, replaced the front rotors and hubs as part of a brake service, replaced the head pipe flange as part of a new muffler, put new tires on the back, got a *new* spare wheel and cleaned up the spare crossbar, and Idk how many other little tasks....

Where is the wdydtytt thread???

[Gary Lewis]

Oh ye of little faith!  WHYDTYTT  (FYI, to get a link to a thread or a post you need to copy the "permalink", not the URL.)

Anyway, if it runs out of air around 5k then a 650 may work. But let's see what Bill has to say. (Don't tell him, but he's forgotten more about carbs than I've ever known. )

[85lebaront2]

Jim, the stock Holley on the 460 was a 600 CFM unit, I would go with no more than 650 and I will make Gary Lewis happy, for easy of tuning (if you have the parts) the AFB is simpler that a Holley as the rods can be swapped from the top and isn't as prone to leaking. FWIW, the 430 ci 375 HP 1958 Lincoln engine used a 600 CFM Holley, that is where the R-1850 came from. If you can use either a YF choke cover or the original Holley one, 7 volts is fine, if not, a Bosch relay will pull in at 7 volts, I did it to charge my pickup camper battery on my 77 F-150.

[Gary Lewis]

Imagine that - we agree on something!  

And I agree the Bosch relay will pull in with the stator power, whatever the voltage and current orientation it is.

By the way, you have a sig. Looks familiar - I like it.

[ArdWrknTrk]

I'm watching the used 1826 on Ebay.
Had to buy a new phone and a couple of gallons of epoxy and yards of carbon fiber this week!
That, plus the valve covers, lots of fuel +, +, +....

Don't know what position I'll be in when the auction closes.

[Gary Lewis]

Carbon fiber and epoxy?  What are you making/repairing?  I would have thought a boat would have had fiberglass and polyester.

Anyway, hope you get the carb. I think it'll be all the carb you need, and I'm curious to know what you think of it. Might be a touch lean as they are mainly used on small-blocks, but that's easily changed.

[ArdWrknTrk]

Gary Lewis wrote

Carbon fiber and epoxy?  What are you making/repairing?  I would have thought a boat would have had fiberglass and polyester.

Anyway, hope you get the carb. I think it'll be all the carb you need, and I'm curious to know what you think of it. Might be a touch lean as they are mainly used on small-blocks, but that's easily changed.

It's the 1826 so it's jetted a little richer than the 'emission' carb.
Besides, carbs are supposed to meter fuel to air flowing through them, not "we're going to meter x amount of fuel for every second".
As long as the mains are big enough for my rpm limit it should be okay.

I'm replacing some floor, stringers and bulkheads in a rather rare little boat.
It's a Steve Stepp manufactured 22 Velocity Light Layup.
With the Mod VP on the back and the things being done it should break 90.

Polyester is good for a glass matrix but it is *not* an adhesive!
I need to bond and tab new structural members in place and get rid of the flex that cracked the old ones.
So i have some Biaxial and uni CF going into the laminate.

This motor was 350 in stock form, and it is NOT stock anymore.

If you want to bond *to* cured polyester, vinylester is a good choice,  but I have epoxy (and know how to use it)

[Gary Lewis]

Yes, carbs meter fuel against the air flowing through them.  But they aren't linear, so an increase in air might not get you the same AFR.  But, if you are starting with the "performance" one then you should be good.

I'm not familiar with that boat, but did look it up.  Wow!  And 90 on the water is way faster than I've been.

As for bonding, you know far more about that than I do.  My only somewhat similar work was on a Dorset cuddy cabin, exactly like the one below - in fact it had the same colors.  When we bought it we didn't realize that fresh water had been between the hull and floor/sole and rot had started on the stringers.  I contacted the guy that had been president of Dorset and he recommended that I remove the floor, media-blast the inside of the hull and stringers to remove the rot, and then lay 'glass against the hull and over the stringers, encapsulating them and creating a hat structure at the same time.  I did and then replaced the floor and filled the hull with foam.  Problem solved, and we loved the boat on lakes around here.  However, we took it to Lake Powell and discovered that the shallow vee meant that it rode terribly on the big waves that boats throw there.

[ArdWrknTrk]

I got the Trans-Dapt spacer and 'won' the 1826 this morning...
I have a kit on the way too.

[Gary Lewis]

Excellent!  

[Gary Lewis]

Jim - When you get the valve covers please post a few pics.  I'm still looking for covers and am talking with Tim on some he sells.  But, I like the finned ones and the OMC covers are mostly finned, so I'm wondering what the spot in the center really looks like and what I might do there.

Thanks in advance.

[ArdWrknTrk]

I've got a phone with a working camera now.
I'll be sure to post pic's when I get the covers.

I think I'm going to mount some kind of plug wire separator on the flat spot.
Blue Thunder covers are 3x the cost and back ordered as well.

Just got shipping notification on the Eddy.
Seems like I'll be busy next week getting all this stuff prepped for installation.

So far:
Crinkle black paint*
Stainless flange bolts*
Carb spacer/block off*
Motorcraft pink rubber egr gasket*
Silicone valve cover gaskets*
New OEM breather cap*
Delco plastic wire seperators*
Plugs for the exhaust manifolds*
Full set of O/A cylinders*
Choke relay*

Covers (otw)
Carb (otw)
Rebuild kit (otw)

Need an Eddy base gasket and dual feed fuel tube.

I wish I still knew someone with a bead blast cabinet, but stripper and lye are going to have to do for prep.
Then I'm going to bake them *in the house* and take a belt sander to the ribs.

Don't know how much rubbing I'll need to do on the secondary side of the spacer.
It looks pretty serious.

[Gary Lewis]

Wish you were close, Jim.  Brandon was over on Saturday and used the cabinet.  We could not only blast them but powder coat them.  And then run the sander on them.  

But, what do you think of these covers?  They are made by Ansen and are cast aluminum made here in the US.  No fins, but shouldn't leak.

[ArdWrknTrk]

Gary Lewis wrote

......
What do you think of these covers?  They are made by Ansen and are cast aluminum made here in the US.  No fins, but shouldn't leak.

They're ok.
I could have bought boxy fabricated covers but don't have aluminum roller rockers, a crazy big cam or guide plates that would require that kind of height.

I guess I have a thing for crinkle paint and polished ribs.
This has got to be due to my Great uncle Jim who taught me to drive stick in one of his Ferraris.
.
It was a '66 330 GT 2+2 series 2, silver with a black interior.
He moved down your way (to BA) when Citgo relocated to Tulsa in the '70's
I can still picture the big oval air cleaner with four down pointing snorkels.
The wood of the steering wheel and the enameled badge on console ashtray.
Pininfarina did a good job when they restyled from the earlier quad headlamp version of that car.

Anyway, enough of my adolescent fantasies. ....

I need to figure some kind of standoff for the wire holders.
Or something else that will use the space in the middle of those covers.
It's difficult without having them in my hands.

[Gary Lewis]

Wow, that must have been fun to drive. I've never even been in a Ferrari, much less driven one. But I've heard them and love the sound. And have seen them and love the look.

I know you are thinking to glue or screw a wire distribution holder in that spot. I'm anxious to see what you come up with, because that may be the perfect solution.

As for Big Blue, he doesn't need the tall valve covers as he isn't running any fancy rockers or even a high-lift cam. Let's see what you come up with.


By the way, folks, my original valve cover pic didn't work well on this iPad, so I added Width="100%" to the coding and now it fits. But something is still causing this thread to be wider than my window and there is now way to scroll. 😩

[ArdWrknTrk]

Why is a Holley dual feed $15 and an Edelbrock 8132 $85 ????

I still need to figure out how I'm going to work the choke.
Running out of room on the fender and not wanting to dig in and install a box/panel

[Gary Lewis]

I'm running Big Blue's off the oil pressure switch. The red/yellow wire.

[ArdWrknTrk]

And I have a mechanical fuel pump, so no wiring just a sender.