E4OD For Dad’s Truck

[85lebaront2]

Going back through and catching some of the missed posts (this is taking on a mind of it's own) I will send you one to start with and drop the core support stuff I have in with it. Color, whatever looks like the original is fine, of coater's choice even.

[Gary Lewis]

Talking with Adam reminds me of talking to Tim - they are both easy to talk to and have a wealth of knowledge.  So the conversation can go on and on.  But I'm worried about using up too much of their time, so usually am ready to get off before they are.

As for the PDC, I am going with a later model one, maybe the one I have or the '95 one that Jim is sending me, so it'll have the fuse.  But why a maxi fuse for keep-alive?

Anyway, that bench setup sounds good and makes sense.  

On the parts to PC, send 'em on.  Dunno when I'll get the first batch going, but I'll work them in.

Last, this isn't even getting started!  Unfortunately I've not found the book entitled For Dummies: How To EEC-V Your 400 In A 1981 F-Series.  But we are writing it, albeit disjointedly, topic by topic.  And when it is done I plan to consolidate it into a true How-To.  Adam said he's intended to do it, but just hasn't found the time.  I think something like that would be a huge help to people.

Perhaps it could be done in sections, with one about the choice of PCM.  And another about the choice of wiring harnesses.  Then intake manifolds, intake plumbing, etc.

[LARIAT 85]

I just sat here and read all 12 pages of this thread, and I had to go back to this post.  VERY complicated and confusing.  I have to say, I am extremely THANKFUL my truck has a carburetor, and I stuck with it.

I have absolutely nothing against EFI, but why on earth are you going through all that trouble (AND wiring, AND sensors) to install it on Dad's truck?  After all, Ford would NOT have done that in 1982. I really don't think all of that is going to make it any easier for your offspring to repair (or keep) Dad's truck.  Looking back on it, if my Dad's 1985 truck was one of the later ones that had EFI, I don't think I would have restored it.  It would have been too much trouble going through all of that wiring and replacing all of those old sensors to make it reliable.

Carburetors have worked great for years, and they still do.  I am under the ago of 40, and that is what I have learned.  Have you forgotten that?  And your truck is already there.  Why all the trouble?  

I get more comments on my truck's engine because it is *looks* so much different than the average vehicle that has EFI.  Everyone seems to really dig it.  Especially with the dual snorkel air cleaner front and center.  And, it runs every bit as good as any modern EFI vehicles does.  That's the best part.

I don't get it?

[Gary Lewis]

I'm going with an E4OD, and have to have a computer to control it.  Why not do it with Ford's computer, which just happens to do EFI as well?

Also, I'm 70 years old and this truck will get handed down.  But finding someone that could work on it is getting harder and harder.  However, if they can plug into an OBD-II port and find out what the problem is then it can be maintained.

[LARIAT 85]

There *are* other transmissions you can use that don't require a computer.

But, it's your funeral, Chief.

IF you ever get this project completed and all of the bugs worked out (there are going to be MANY, as evidenced by this thread), I am going to ask you if it was all worth it.  

One thing is for sure, you won't enjoy the fruits of your labor (DRIVING TIME) for very long, with all of the extra work you have ahead of you.  


Good luck!

[85lebaront2]

Try taking your carbureted engine up to about 5000 feet elevation and see how much different it runs, granted, you have one of the best carburetors made for a Ford engine, the annular boosters provide the best distribution possible. Take a vehicle jetted for sea level and take it up to Denver say, it will be rich, take a vehicle set up for Denver and bring it to sea level, it will be lean enough to probably misfire. Fuel injection systems read the Manifold Absolute Pressure, or Mass Air Flow and adjust the mixture and spark advance as needed. Detroit was late to the party, many European cars had it for years before, at least Ford didn't piddle with the TBI systems much, pretty well went right to port injection, cars were sequential and some were Mass Air as early as 1989, trucks used a bank fired system as the emission requirements were less strict for them.

[LARIAT 85]

Maybe Gary should be asking himself if he ever plans to go 5000 feet up in elevation, or if his offspring will feel comfortable in the future driving a 40+ year old pickup truck up to the mountains?

If he does (or they do), a simple screwdriver and jet change will be a whole lot easier and simpler than what this thread is proposing.

And, you don't *have* to do anything.  It might not run perfect, but it's not like a carbureted engine can't handle the elevation changes at all.

[Gary Lewis]

Rick - There are only two automatics that will bolt to a 400: a C6 and an E4OD.  I don't want the C6, so that leaves me with an E4OD.  And that requires a controller, which start at $800.

So I decided to go MAF SEFI.  It will take more time, but it is what I want to do, and to me these projects are about the journey of building them, not just about driving them.  In fact, this truck may not be driven a lot.  But it will sure turn heads at the shows.  

As for driving it to the mountains, Big Blue is more likely to go the mountains right now.  But, our son and DiL would dearly love to move to CO, and the truck is probably going to be his at some point.  So, with the EFI it'll handle that well.

Anyway, I understand your arguments.  I've been through all of them myself.  And I've made my decision on what I want to do.  So, I hope you'll be along for the ride.  

[NotEnoughTrucks]

Shipping box is filling up!

6" of snow here in the last week seems to be hiding things on me. Got the main harness and the ECM's but the engine harness is eluding me. Of course, I was tripping over it a month ago. Got a few places left to check, but the daylight hours are getting short. Looks like I can fit everything into a small tote.

I'll take some pics before I pack it all up. Just got in from the farm and it's time to rest my old bones!

[Nothing Special]

Gary Lewis wrote

....The only downside is that this box is also USB, and with the Direct Flash cable and the dongle the PC needs to have three USB ports.  Unfortunately this laptop only has two, but Adam told me about inexpensive laptops that have 3, so that should be simple....

Simpler and cheaper yet, there are boxes that plug into a USB port and give you three ports.

[LARIAT 85]

I wish you luck with your project, Gary.  I really do.

But I feel have to say this.  It seems to me that Dad's truck is starting to become unrecognizable.  The paint color is not original, the Bronco seats are going to give the interior a totally different look and feel, the wheels have been changed, and the engine and transmission - that is going to be a MAJOR change.  Did you not like your Dad's truck?

You see, I LOVED my Dad's truck, which is why I have it today and the reason why I took the time to restore it.  I am all for tasteful modifications, but part of the thrill for ME was getting *my* Dad's truck back on the road and driving it - mostly the way I remembered it.  I restored my Dad's truck to better than new with a few modifications of my own, but the personality is still very much there.  So much so, that my Brother was almost in tears when I picked him up and took him for a ride a while back. EFI is great but it is going to DRASTICALLY change the personality and feel of your Dad's truck.  Part of the charm of driving an older, restored vehicle - especially one that has been in the family as long as our Dad's trucks have been - is re-living the original feel and personality it once had.  

I was there, Chief.  During my own restoration, I thought about replacing my 5.0 with a 5.8, then I thought about replacing my AOD with a 4R70W.  I even went through a phase of wanting a black interior and then to a red and black interior.  (I finally went back to the original red.) In the end, I decided against it but then wondered if I made the right decision.  Driving it now, I *know* I made the right decision.  My Dad's truck...still feels like Dad's truck, only better.  I just couldn't imagine making all of those changes to *my* Dad's truck today.  

My Father-in-Law has a 1981 Chevrolet Custom truck he bought brand new with an inline six cylinder engine and a 3-on-the-tree.  He decided to restore his truck about the same time I started mine.  He painted it a different shade of blue, put on chrome wheels, upholstered the interior (his was a base model) added air conditioning, and then replaced the engine with a 350 V8 with a 700R4 transmission.  Other than the upholstered cloth seat and air conditioning, he now regrets every. single. change he made. To make matters worse, he is constantly having little problems with it, ALL related to his modifications.  

I realize that this is *my* opinion, and it is *your* truck.  I just hope you don't regret all of the MAJOR changes you are making to your Dad's truck.

Capiche?

[Gary Lewis]

Ray - There's absolutely no hurry on getting that to me.  So please take your time.  I understand the "old bones" thing - it is 45F here and we are sitting by the fire.

Bob - Good point about the USB splitter.  I actually have one and will have to use it - especially since I'm changing to a Windows tablet (Surface Pro), which will be easier to travel with than this laptop.  And, it'll let me edit the website while traveling, which the iPad won't do.

Rick - No problem.  Everyone is entitled to their own opinion.  However, in Dad's truck's case a lot of change was necessary.  The bed was gone, crushed on one side and rusted.  Ditto the cab.  The engine was sluggish to say the least, the transfer case was cracked, and on and on.  But on every decision I've consulted my brother, and we've agreed on everything.  So, I'm happy with the decisions.  In the end it'll look like the truck when Dad drove it as it is the original paint color save for not having the candy apple red top, which he changed.  And the wheels are ones my brother picked, so that wasn't my decision.

Oh, and the engine is the original engine.  At least it is the same block, pan, and rods.  Inside there's a 400 crank, new pistons, cam, lifters, timing chain, and heads.  So, why should I quibble over whether it has a carb or EFI?  I'd already changed it to a 4bbl long ago.  And, as said, my brother fully agrees.

Anyway, to each his own.  This is the way I want to do it, and there's nothing wrong with that.  And you did yours the way you wanted to do it, and there's nothing wrong with that.  Just different strokes for different folks.  You like 3" and I like 4".  

[Gary Lewis]

Bill - Do you happen to have the wire(s) that go from the 104-pin EEC-V connector to the transfer case?  Since Ray's harness is for a 2wd truck that looks to be one part I'll be missing.  But, if you had the wire(s), including the pin(s) and the connector to the t-case I could slip it right in.  Right?

Or, there isn't any chance, surely, that Ford used the same pins on the EEC-IV connector as the EEC-V connector.  Surely not.  But, if so, or if I could get new pins for the 104-pin connector I could probably use the t-case wire(s) that are on this '90.

Similarly, I'm going to have to graft the dash-mounted OD switch into Ray's harness.  I assume it'll be easy to ID the wires going to the shift lever by sight, but that '96 EVTM would make that lots easier.

Anyway, just thinking.....

[85lebaront2]

Rick, I understand your view and respect it. I did the modifications on Darth because I had to replace the front sheet metal to start, the PO parked by feel. Second item was the bed, one dually fender was damn near obliterated and the metal eating termites had been quite busy over the fenders. 1985-86 dually beds are made from unubtanium and finding a good one, well, honest politicians and hens teeth are more common (Ford introduced the Sterling 10.25 in 1985 and increased the track width on the rear) due to this, an earlier bed will fit, but the outboard duals will stick out of the fenders. Fortunately, the frame and bolt locations didn't change and I found a good 1996 bed.

I had gotten tired of either having to manually prime the carburetor by jumping the crank wire on the fuel pump circuit to run the selected pump, or crank until the carb filled. I did not then nor do I now drive Darth every day, parking, fuel consumption etc. are the reasons. I really didn't want the taxes, and some of the stuff the newer trucks have, like ABS.

During hurricane Floyd, I had to drive through some flooded areas a couple were deep enough the tailpipe was imitation a motorboat, one was damn near to the headlights as there is a creek and a bunch of drainage ditches in Newport News and Hampton that during this storm, pretty well cut the peninsula in half. The end result was a year later my son was on his way to Norfolk, and the left rear wheel inner bearing locked up and spun on the axle tube. I was able to repair the tube well enough to get a new bearing and $40 seal on, but had to usually replace it every year and clean out the drum. Again, later axles 198 up fit, but have the rear ABS sensor.

The end result, I bought a 1990 parts truck, giving me an EFI system, E4OD transmission and decent front sheet metal. I was contacted by a friend who at the time worked for a local junkyard about helping another man who worked there with an electrical problem on his show truck. One thing led to another and the 1996 interior, the Alcoa rims, a later rear axle and numerous other things have come from this relationship. I am currently repairing some things (started as fix what shorted) on his late father's Chevstang (1967 Mustang convertible originally a 6 cyl. now an LT1 and 4L60E). Friends like that you will do things for.

I added the remote keyless entry system and one touch down power driver's window system for convenience also the auto dimming day/night mirror with compass. The 1986 crew cabs only had power front windows and locks as an option, Darth lacked these. HVAC is updated to a 1996 system, even though the old system was successfully converted to R134a. The end result I am happy with, I have a number of not available options that make him nicer to drive, improved my fuel economy by over 20% and still have plenty of power for hauling, towing or a combination of both. The Lincoln Continental power buckets are extremely comfortable.

[85lebaront2]

Gary, I may have some extras, I will have to check my EEC-V spares. No, the 104 pin connectors are smaller and as yet I haven't found a good aftermarket source. Depending on what Ray sends you might have something. I would look for a junkyard 1996 F250 as the front harness will probably have those wires at least as far as the transmission plugs. I believe it is only one wire and it is the same one that lights the LO indicator light. Ford may have put them in the front harness as the cost of one or two extra wires is cheaper than having to build 5 or 6 different ones. Biggest issue I found, is under 8500 GVW truck harnesses have the air bag wiring in them which is 6 or more wires with no use other than that. Other thing, it will have the rear ABS wiring and no brake failure switch wiring, instead it will have fluid level sensor circuits.

[Gary Lewis]

Bill - Thanks. I doubted the pins would interchange. But, if there are wires for the air bag then maybe I could use one of those for the t-case wire from this ‘90.

As for the brake system switch, that thing has been more trouble than it is worth. So if I had a low level switch, from using a later model master, then that would be useful.

[NotEnoughTrucks]

Found an EECV schematic on line. In fact, a very good resource for any wiring diagrams.

http://www.bbbind.com/free_tsb.html

It's a pretty comprehensive site, but the indexing takes a little getting used to.

Gary, I 'm sending you an email with what I hope are the appropriate files.

[NotEnoughTrucks]

You likely will need to provide connection to the O/D switch as well as the OBDII connector inside the cab. Should not be too difficult as you are relocating the ECM under the seat anyways.

Those OBDII diagnostic connectors are part of the interior cab wiring and are not on the underhood harness. They are pretty generic and I think you could salvage one from pretty much any modern vehicle. Ford preferred of course so the colors match up.

I think the transfer case wiring will be present on the main underhood harness. 2WD/4WD would likely be accommodated on the transmission sub harness.

I'm preparing for a few days out of town. Hope it's OK to ship next week, running out of time before the weekend. I will get a teaser pic of the main harness posted here later today. Maybe I can confirm those transfer case circuits are there.

[NotEnoughTrucks]

Bill, that sound like how my Frankentruck is evolving. I really must start some sort of build thread. Build them the way you want.

My longbox 86 will be more of a restoration. Rick, I hear what you are saying about preserving the vehicle. Probably only have enough decent parts for 1 restoration anyways.

Just a thought though, LS powered 67 Mustang convertible? Sacrilege!

[85lebaront2]

Not LS, older LT1, the one with the distributor behind the water pump and driven by the camshaft. I didn't say it wasn't but it was what Pete Medlin wanted and helping him 6 or 7 years ago when he was building it was fun and beneficial. He made it look like a GT350 cosmetically.