Column Shift Bell Crank Assembly Issues

[Tarheel Blue]

As some might remember, I’m on a LONG and SLOW journey to converting my ‘85 300 w/ NP435 to a rebuilt 4.9L w/ rebuilt 4R70W.
While awaiting possession of the correct cross member (thanks matintn) I started to install the bell crank assembly and have run into a situation where things just don’t look right.
In my stash of parts I have two complete bell crank assemblies;
One I got from a 300 w/ an AOD and the other was from a 302 w/ a C6. Both of the frame brackets and the actual bell crank shafts are identical. Where the issue comes into play is the bracket that attaches to the transmission.
Obviously, I found out that the C6 bracket is simply not going to work and into the scrap pile it goes. The bracket from the AOD was one that I was confident would work. Heck, the cases of an AOD and a 4R70W are almost identical.
So, in it goes!

But hold on!
What doesn’t look right to me is that the shaft of the bell crank is forced by the grommet in the bracket about 3/8” too far to the rear. The bracket on the frame rail is in the correct position but the grommet in the trans bracket seems to be too far back. The shaft should, in my opinion, be almost perpendicular to the frame and trans.
So, I go to the master parts catalog and find the part # for a 300 w/ AOD and get
E4TZ 7C431-A
Exhaustive internet search results in basically nothing, however the good folks at Green Sales Company says they have a NOS part and have it in the mail to me for $10!!
WooHoo!
Not so fast, the picture that they sent looks to be identical to the one I already have. Ugh!

Has anyone put a 4R70W into a Bullnose and successfully used FORD components to utilize the column shift w/ bell crank? Or, can anyone send a couple of pics of their AOD w/ column shift bracket?

I VERY strongly prefer not to use Lokar or others to solve the problem.

Cheers,

[85lebaront2]

The operative word is "almost" the 4R70W is derived from the AODE which was derived from the AOD. One of the issues is the 4R70/75W had a cable shifter rather than a mechanical rod system, as a result the bracket mounts were only concerned with holding the cable casing in place. We went through this trying to set one up for my son's 1986 F150 4WD, ended up buying I believe it was a Lokar shift lever kit.

[mat in tn]

this is one of the oddities to be discovered. the 4r70w has a single selector shaft with a set ball stud for the shift cable to attach to. where the aod has a doglegged bracket made onto a hollow selector shaft. hollow because the tv linkage shaft goes through it. the aod needs a linkage rod which connects the bell crank to the selector. ford did not put this combination together so there was no reason for them to make a bell crank for it. the 4r70w was never a bell crank operated unit. it's very likely that the bell crank anchor point on the frame may need to be moved rearward on the frame to be at a 90-degree position. and then the selector shaft adapted to receive the connecting rod. the down rod from the column has the adjustment slot to accommodate. another point is that the bell crank for the aod is different in length and positioning than the c6. it may be that a bit of fab work is in order.

[Tarheel Blue]

I’ve no problem w/ fab work, in fact I enjoy it. Moving the frame bracket is not an option as the assembly is already extremely close to the underside of the cab sheet metal. Only option I see is to move the grommet in the AOD bracket forward. Seems simple enough, here’s the NOS piece coming from Green Sales that I’ll need to modify

 

[FuzzFace2]

It looks like you are at that stage where it is the little things that are showing up now
When done it will be a sweet ride
Dave ----

[Tarheel Blue]

Thanks, and don’t forget, I’m hoping to get you involved soon with the “get it finished” part.😀

I sure wish that Nickleplate or Rembrandt would chime in as I believe that they both have experience with what I’m dealing with.

[FuzzFace2]

In 3 weeks I will have a lot more time as I will not need to go to work
So if you need a hand for "finish work" I will be around.
Dave ----

[Gary Lewis]

FuzzFace2 wrote

In 3 weeks I will have a lot more time as I will not need to go to work

Dave is retiring????!!!!  Yippee!!!

[mat in tn]

Kurt . I want to say thank you to you and your wife today. very nice visit and the chance to see your project hands on. after looking over a few parts and a couple trucks once we returned home I realize that the bracket you are waiting to be delivered looks to be the same as on my 86 300/aod combo. the mid mounted tv cable mounting point is one from an 83-carb setup. hopefully all pivot points are as needed. the motor position measurements that we took seem standard by comparison. the 93 f150 I measured has a second pr of crossmember positioning holes further back and that position lines it up perfectly. we only need to sort-out the gussets.  I say only but know that so much is still to be built on each step.

[Gary Lewis]

[Tarheel Blue]

Thanks Matt!
It was a pleasure to meet you and your wife and thank you for coming out of your way to not only deliver a part but to spend time helping me try to figure things out. Glad we didn’t spend the entire time under the truck but also got to sit on the patio and “solve all the worlds problems”😇

I’ve spent the morning trying your x-member and mine in different positions, rotations, etc.
And I’m still unable to get anything to work. I get the x-member where I want it and the gussets don’t line up. I start w/ the gussets and the x-member is WAY off.
Seems I’m at the point of cut and weld ‘til it works.

I also need to figure out how to reach out to Nickleplate and Rembrandt to see what advice they may have.

[85lebaront2]

When I put the E4OD in Darth, I had an actual E4OD crossmember and gussets from the 1990 parts donor truck. Somewhere in cleaning things up, the crossmember disappeared. I was able to get one from a 1993 or 4 with a 351W and E4OD.

Since the 1986 never came with an E4OD, nor anything else with the mounts that far back I had to drill the holes in the frame for the mount and gussets. The right side was extremely interesting as the gusset on that side sits almost vertical to clear the dual headpipes from the 1990 F250/460/E4OD combination.
You can see the right side gusset where the pipes kick up over the transmission crossmember. FWIW, a 2WD  E4OD is 6" longer than a 2WD C6, but the mount pad is 9" further back from the front of the transmission.

[mat in tn]

I did a little part searching today and located two different pr. of x member gussets. both seem to have a good amount of offset. I'm picking up one pr tomorrow and the other next week when I get a few other parts on the same order I'm always doing parts scrounging for my projects and seeing how much of an issue this has become I see real value in building a full set to have on hand. I will get ford numbers as soon as I have them cleaned up enough to read. I will get the offset measurements also.
 as to the one set on my 86 sb with the same x member as I brought those are E4TA-7F468-BA driver side. and E4TA-7R314-ba passenger. this set seems to have very little offset and are original to the truck with a c6. now aod with the exact x cross member yet at the very rear of the slots. and you need at least an inch further back. more to follow!

[Tarheel Blue]

Thanks Matt,
I’ve had a couple of side conversations w/ Cory (Rembrandt) and Brad (Nickleplate) and they’ve pretty much gotten me to where my thinking is currently.

1. Install the x-member where I think it works best. Requires drilling 1 new hole in the lower lip of the frame rail on each side.

2. Unless I discover gussets that have more of a rearward offset, then I’m left w/ three choices.
   2A. Modify the gussets to bolt to the frame in their original location on the frame while adapting to where the new location of the x-member is. Cut and weld operation.

   2B. Bolt the stock gussets to the x-member and drill 2 new holes in the top of the frame rails to accept their new locations.

   2C. Bolt the stock gussets to the x-member and drill 1 new hole in the top of each gusset to align w/ the most rearward existing hole in the top of the frame.

Currently, I’m leaning towards 2C and in all cases, I’m looking at moving the x-member back 1.375” +/-

[mat in tn]

this about right for the x member offset needed and I'm sure there is a gusset that has the amount needed to do that.  it "could" even go back a bit further 1/2-1 inch more if a gusset were to reach that much.

[85lebaront2]

Mat, I found the picture of the 4R70W we built for my son's 1986 F150 4WD. Here it is with the Lokar shift lever installed.

[Rembrant]

Tarheel Blue wrote

I sure wish that Nickleplate or Rembrandt would chime in as I believe that they both have experience with what I’m dealing with.

I'm here! Sorry, I'm not as involved in the forum as I once was. Sadly my Bullnoses are gone and I'm now rocking a much less interesting Mustang GT for my personal Ford content;)

I installed a 1996 4R70W trans in my 1952 pickup. I used a B&M 80775 universal floor shifter for it, and I ended up modifying the factory 4R70W shifter arm to work with the 80775 shifter kit. I modified a B&M mounting bracket, and for the transmission shifter I basically modified it to match a B&M arm. I didn't take many pictures of this project, so not much to share here other than memories at this point.

I don't see what it wouldn't work with a bell crank system, with some modified linkages. Might take a bit to get the geometry correct.

For the transmission crossmember gussets in my 1984 F150 with the 5spd swap, I extended the tops of them with some scrap angle iron I had laying around. I think I had to move them back by 1.25" or so. Anyway, here's a picture showing the extension and the two new upper mounting holes. This still provided plenty of support for the upper crossmember (where the rear cab mounts sit). I drilled new holes in the lower lip of the frame for the ends of the crossmember.

Hope this makes sense...

[Tarheel Blue]

Thanks for all of the reply and thoughts.
 I’ve had a couple of side conversations w/ Cory (Rembrandt), matintn and Brad (Nickleplate) and they’ve pretty much gotten me to the following;

1. Install the x-member where I think it works best. Back about 1.375”
2. Unless I discover gussets that have more of a rearward offset, then I’m left w/ three choices.
2A. Modify the gussets to bolt to the frame in their original location on the frame while accepting where the new location of the x-member is.
2B. Bolt the stock gussets to the x-member and drill new holes in the top of the frame rails to accept their new locations.
2C. Drill one new hole in each gusset to allow me to use the rear most stock hole in the top of the frame rail.

I elected to go with 2C and I now have everything bolted in place and I’m happy w/ the results.

[Tarheel Blue]

Something I’d like to pass along for those that have to remove the x-member gussets. Anyone that has tackeled this project can understand what a royal pain the top bolts can be in the limited space between the top of the frame and the cab and that the nuts are prevailing torque.

I discovered that (in my truck anyway) that Ford provided the tiniest little dimples in the floor board that line up exactly over the two bolts. Sort of like small center punch marks. I simply used a hole saw big enough to accept the needed socket and BAM! Easy access to the bolts.

I welded the nuts to the bottom of the gussets and now only have to run the ratchet from the cab w/o having to have a helper hold the wrench from below.

[Gary Lewis]

Wow!  How did I miss those dimples?  I've done that so many times I should have seen that.  Cool!