Choke adjustments and Cheap Chinese carburetor WARNING

[mat in tn]

i dont remember specifically on the 302 but let me go look at one

[mat in tn]

no, you cannot just remove the egr plate. there is an exhaust port on the passenger side which supplies the egr when in use. if you don't have the plate, it will get noisy and dirty!

[Gary Lewis]

That's exactly what I was thinking.  The carb doesn't cover the exhaust port, but the plate does.

[rcarlisle]

Thanks, fellas.   Will leave it there.  

[rcarlisle]

Ok, HELP requested again.  One of my issues all along has been getting the choke to go all the way OPEN, once I got it working.   Just seems to me when I feel the heat in the engine compartment that the choke should open on up.  

Yesterday I reinstalled the Autolite after cleaning it up.   I set the choke cap (no electric assist at all) while I was inside before bringing it outside.   So when I press the throttle it closes, then opens on the vacuum pull off when it fires.  But it never seems to go any farther to completely open and off high idle.  High idle set about 1600 cold according to aftermarket tach.

I have the screw in the plastic piece set so the high idle should go off pretty quick.  I can start truck, let it warm sitting still on highest idle.   It should start reducing idle as soon as I start pressing the gas pedal according to how the linkage appears to be designed to work.  

So then I drive truck.   But choke will still be partially closed (half?) after several miles of driving.  Let's just say temps in the 40s, so the idle stays above 1000, usually 1200 - 1500.  I can drive 5 or 6 miles and the choke plate will NOT stand vertical.   It's driving me nuts.  

Or is it just a thing that it may not go vertical in these cooler temps?  

I have decided that I will likely NOT drive the truck at temps under freezing - just no need to really, if I can get a day a week to drive it over freezing, which is usually workable in NC.  

[Gary Lewis]

Do you have the hot air tube connected from the exhaust to the carb?  If you don't have electric assist the hot air coming off the exhaust is all that opens the choke up.  And w/o that it'll never open up completely.

With everything hooked up the choke itself will slowly come off as the engine warms up, but you are right that the fast idle won't change until you release the tension on it by giving the engine some throttle.  And until the choke stands straight up you'll have some fast idle.

[rcarlisle]

I do have the tubes connected - BUT it is the Dorman repair part, with a second hole drilled in opposite end and connected in the middle.  I have the factory filter mesh metal in there surrounding the pipes.   And the pipes connected in the middle.   A hodge podge of ideas from members here to make it best possible.   But it is also mounted on the down pipe instead of the manifold.  Might not be getting full heat.   My manifold holes are all messed up from what I have felt and probed.  Don't want to cause worse problems by attempting to remove the manifold.

With that said, I want to replace ALL of that with the electric choke from Mike's carburetor parts that has a rheostat that mounts to a good hot spot (like a waterneck bolt).   THe rheostat also serves as the ground wire.  https://www.carburetor-parts.com/Electric-Choke-Conversion-Kits_c_1026.html

With that kit, you cap the hot air pipes on choke housing and the fresh air port on carb, which cleans up that area again.  I was hoping that I could get it to work correctly first so I didn't throw money and it still not work properly.  Of course, if my Dorman setup isn't functioning correctly, I might be throwing bad time working on it.  

[Gary Lewis]

I hadn't seen that choke from Mike's, but I really like it!  REALLY!  I think I'd quit messing with the hot air bit and install that choke.

It says to install the sensor under "an existing engine bolt", but there are lots of those and they probably vary quite a bit as to how hot they get.  I'd be inclined to call Mike's and ask where the best place to put it is.

[rcarlisle]

I watched his and a couple other videos.  Best I can tell, one of the waterneck bolts gives the heat needed to accurately close the choke.  Right there where the hot water passes when the thermostat opens.  

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uvPQNWy2VKY

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sUc407lbibQ - around 3:57, he says an intake manifold bolt.  

Just seems to need a spot that will 1) ground properly, and 2) get a good amount of heat.  

I'm done with the hot air deal.  It's attached as best I can do.   I just want the linkage to open up completely.   This might be the deal.  

I'm questioning if I want to completely rebuild the carb.  The reman tag says 2015.   It functions.   But could it be better if I rebuilt it?  The idle screws are kinda loosey goosey in their threads.   Are they sucking air?  idk.   What is in the float bowl and how does the inlet needle look?  So many questions and I really don't want the truck out of service for any length of time.   THat just works on my OCD.  

[LARIAT 85]

First - shame on you for buying a chinese carburetor.

Second - you are supposed to set the high idle speed to 1600 RPM when the engine is HOT, like I said in one of your earlier posts.  You do not want your engine to shoot up to 1600 RPM when it's started in the cold.

Third - if it is really cold, your choke should *not* come completely off - if at all - when you hit the gas too soon.  As the engine builds up some heat and the choke spring relaxes a little, hitting the gas should bring it down to the next step of the carburetor, which should drop the idle speed down to about 1000 RPM.  When your engine is at full operating temperature, your choke plate should be completely vertical with tension holding it open and your engine should be idling at curb idle speed.

Fourth - Provided it is set up correctly, a thermostatic choke will always work better than an all-electric choke.

Ford used supplementary heat to help the thermostatic choke open up completely and faster, and to stay open when the choke isn't really needed.  In the 1960s, a heater hose was routed against the choke cap.  In the 1970s and 1980s, an electric assist choke cap was used.  You are using neither, and that is probably why your choke isn't opening up all the way.  The only way to get it your choke plate completely vertical without the heater hose or electric assist choke cap in place is to make the choke really lean (very little tension), but then that means the choke isn't going to stay on long enough.

Replace your choke cap with an electric assist choke cap and hook that to the alternator and I bet your problem will go away.

Here is one I found for you:
https://www.ebay.com/itm/371957582173?epid=174779043&hash=item569a66495d:g:7YIAAOSwY3BZIb3i

[rcarlisle]

LARIAT 85 wrote

First - shame on you for buying a chinese carburetor.

Second - you are supposed to set the high idle speed to 1600 RPM when the engine is HOT, like I said in one of your earlier posts.  You do not want your engine to shoot up to 1600 RPM when it's started in the cold.

Third - if it is really cold, your choke should *not* come completely off - if at all - when you hit the gas too soon.  As the engine builds up some heat and the choke spring relaxes a little, hitting the gas should bring it down to the next step of the carburetor, which should drop the idle speed down to about 1000 RPM.  When your engine is at full operating temperature, your choke plate should be completely vertical with tension holding it open and your engine should be idling at curb idle speed.

Fourth - Provided it is set up correctly, a thermostatic choke will always work better than an all-electric choke.

Ford used supplementary heat to help the thermostatic choke open up completely and faster, and to stay open when the choke isn't really needed.  In the 1960s, a heater hose was routed against the choke cap.  In the 1970s and 1980s, an electric assist choke cap was used.  You are using neither, and that is probably why your choke isn't opening up all the way.  The only way to get it your choke plate completely vertical without the heater hose or electric assist choke cap in place is to make the choke really lean (very little tension), but then that means the choke isn't going to stay on long enough.

Replace your choke cap with an electric assist choke cap and hook that to the alternator and I bet your problem will go away.

Here is one I found for you:
https://www.ebay.com/itm/371957582173?epid=174779043&hash=item569a66495d:g:7YIAAOSwY3BZIb3i

Thanks for the tips and additional input.  I have FOLLOWED your tips as much as possible.   I have my hot air tube routed similar to your setup with the Dorman and 2 holes and hoses, using your setup as the inspiration.   I've got the fast idle set at 1600, but that is cold.   My sticker on core support says 2000, but here at work, I can't remember that being hot or cold - I can't imagine it being cold.   I'll work towards getting that to 1600 when HOT.   I am LEARNING as I go.   I think I remember you learning on FTE as well in all the posts I've read about chokes and how to get them right.   They are a fairly simple system, but one has to UNDERSTAND how they work.  

Where the problem apparently has been is that I was adjusting the choke arm adjuster incorrectly.   I was going the wrong way.  Last night I have it as close to "right" as I have ever been.   Tonight I will try again to get it even "righter".   You only get one true "cold start" per day, especially if it's a work day.   I need to check the vac pulloff before I start the truck then check the choke arm adjuster as possible.

I understand that there are steps on the cam and that the first use of throttle will usually bring it down to the next step, reducing idle a bit, whether it be a stabbing of the gas pedal or putting it in gear and pressing the throttle to move the vehicle.   That should bring it down a bit more.

I live in NC and don't drive the truck every day.   I am not driving under freezing very often, if at all.  I can drive my newer car that gets better mileage as my daily, especially when cold.  So long as the choke is on for 5 - 6 minutes, it should be fine, from what I've read.  My 2021 car has heat within 2 miles of leaving home and I only let it idle for a few seconds before moving out in the mornings.   truck will likely take longer, but not too much longer.

Instead of an electric assist, I really like the looks of the full electric conversion.  Eliminates all of those hoses and issues there, in theory.   I trust Mike's carbs or whatever the site is - they really seem to have a lot of knowledge.   I did want to get the linkage working correctly, which is where I am stuck currently.  

I bought this truck last March (2021) and the choke was completely inoperable.  BUT the truck would start and run pretty quick with a little manipulation of the throtte.  Pat that gas, buddy, pat that gas.   In my world, I'm learning about making something back to right.  

As for the chinese carb, I bet you have a LOT of Chinese stuff, even if it isn't on your truck.  We all do. You can't help it anymore.    I don't have $200 - $400 to spend on a refurbed carb.  And I may end up paying even more eventually, if that screw is still in there somewhere.  Truck is running properly and quietly currently.  

I have to buy Chinese stuff once in a while and I now have a $100 paperweight.   But since it is pretty much identical in operation, I can use it to study the operation of the linkage while I'm learning.  

[LARIAT 85]

rcarlisle wrote

I live in NC and don't drive the truck every day.   I am not driving under freezing very often, if at all.  I can drive my newer car that gets better mileage as my daily, especially when cold.  So long as the choke is on for 5 - 6 minutes, it should be fine, from what I've read.  My 2021 car has heat within 2 miles of leaving home and I only let it idle for a few seconds before moving out in the mornings.   truck will likely take longer, but not too much longer.

I am in SC, so not far from you.  Hello, neighbor!

Your truck should also have heat within 2 miles of driving.  The trick is, you have to drive it like your new vehicle.  So many people with carburetors think they have to let their vehicles sit at idle and let it "warm up" before driving away.  But that is not true.  Or, I have seen others aggressively WACK the throttle repeatedly in order to get the fast idle speed to come down before the engine is ready.  But that is not the proper procedure for the choke system and results in poor cold weather driving.  In even the coldest temperatures, you should be able to drive away almost immediately, provided your choke is set up correctly.  Your choke will come off gradually and automatically as you drive.  It is actually better for your engine to drive away sooner rather than later.  The name of the game is to get your engine up to full operating temperature as quickly as possible.  Whether you have a carburetor or fuel injection, your vehicle will warm up faster in 2 miles of [conservative] driving than it would sitting there at idle for 15 minutes.

rcarlisle wrote

Instead of an electric assist, I really like the looks of the full electric conversion.  Eliminates all of those hoses and issues there, in theory.   I trust Mike's carbs or whatever the site is - they really seem to have a lot of knowledge.   I did want to get the linkage working correctly, which is where I am stuck currently.

Yes, I suppose a fully electric choke with one wire "looks" better, and it is certainly simpler to hook up.  But a thermostatic "hot air" choke with electric assist will work much better and is better for your engine in that it doesn't unnecessarily choke the engine.
 

rcarlisle wrote

As for the chinese carb, I bet you have a LOT of Chinese stuff, even if it isn't on your truck.  We all do. You can't help it anymore.    I don't have $200 - $400 to spend on a refurbed carb.  And I may end up paying even more eventually, if that screw is still in there somewhere.  Truck is running properly and quietly currently.  

I have to buy Chinese stuff once in a while and I now have a $100 paperweight.   But since it is pretty much identical in operation, I can use it to study the operation of the linkage while I'm learning.

Fair enough.  I also kept my old Motorcraft 2150 for the same reason years ago when I replaced it with my Autolite 4100.  I learned a lot from that old carburetor sitting on my desk.

[Gary Lewis]

You cannot escape things made in China these days.  I've just ordered a whole lot of parts for installing EFI on Big Blue, and was surprised to see that one Motorcraft part said it was made in China.

Try buying a MAF sensor now.  Motorcraft ones are not available new.  And the replacements all appear to be from China - unless I've missed one.

And I just ordered a Topside Creeper NXT, which is from TraXion in Arkansas.  Turns out while it was designed in the US it was made in China.

Ditto the Pormido mirror/camera system for Big Blue.  There is not one designed, much less made, in the US that comes close to doing what this one does.

[LARIAT 85]

I would feel more confident buying a USA rebuilt carburetor over a brand new cheap chinese knock-off.

But yes, you are right Gary.  I purchased all new replacement OEM MOPAR sensors for my 1998 Jeep Wrangler for spares a few years ago when I worked at a Chrysler dealership.  All of them were either made in the USA or Canada.  (I have plenty of spare NOS Motorcraft parts - USA made - for Lucille for the same reason.  Perhaps that is why Lucille runs so well?)

Those same sensors from Mopar are now all made in China.  

[Gary Lewis]

Yep.  Exactly my point.  You cannot buy new parts w/o getting some made in China.  And I'm not sure it is worth trying to avoid it.

[rcarlisle]

LARIAT 85 wrote

I would feel more confident buying a USA rebuilt carburetor over a brand new cheap chinese knock-off.

But yes, you are right Gary.  I purchased all new replacement OEM MOPAR sensors for my 1998 Jeep Wrangler for spares a few years ago when I worked at a Chrysler dealership.  All of them were either made in the USA or Canada.  (I have plenty of spare NOS Motorcraft parts - USA made - for Lucille for the same reason.  Perhaps that is why Lucille runs so well?)

Those same sensors from Mopar are now all made in China.  

I had a 92 Dakota that would blow the TPS sensor almost to the day every year.   I could tell as soon as the truck started when the TPS had gone bad.  Like 3 years it did this.  The last one I bought was designed differently.  I bought all Mopar parts.  

If I had been looking last year before the new roof on house, I probably woulda went for a better US reman.  But stuff happens.  

[rcarlisle]

LARIAT 85 wrote

rcarlisle wrote

I live in NC and don't drive the truck every day.   I am not driving under freezing very often, if at all.  I can drive my newer car that gets better mileage as my daily, especially when cold.  So long as the choke is on for 5 - 6 minutes, it should be fine, from what I've read.  My 2021 car has heat within 2 miles of leaving home and I only let it idle for a few seconds before moving out in the mornings.   truck will likely take longer, but not too much longer.

I am in SC, so not far from you.  Hello, neighbor!

Your truck should also have heat within 2 miles of driving.  The trick is, you have to drive it like your new vehicle.  So many people with carburetors think they have to let their vehicles sit at idle and let it "warm up" before driving away.  But that is not true.  Or, I have seen others aggressively WACK the throttle repeatedly in order to get the fast idle speed to come down before the engine is ready.  But that is not the proper procedure for the choke system and results in poor cold weather driving.  In even the coldest temperatures, you should be able to drive away almost immediately, provided your choke is set up correctly.  Your choke will come off gradually and automatically as you drive.  It is actually better for your engine to drive away sooner rather than later.  The name of the game is to get your engine up to full operating temperature as quickly as possible.  Whether you have a carburetor or fuel injection, your vehicle will warm up faster in 2 miles of [conservative] driving than it would sitting there at idle for 15 minutes.

rcarlisle wrote

Instead of an electric assist, I really like the looks of the full electric conversion.  Eliminates all of those hoses and issues there, in theory.   I trust Mike's carbs or whatever the site is - they really seem to have a lot of knowledge.   I did want to get the linkage working correctly, which is where I am stuck currently.

Yes, I suppose a fully electric choke with one wire "looks" better, and it is certainly simpler to hook up.  But a thermostatic "hot air" choke with electric assist will work much better and is better for your engine in that it doesn't unnecessarily choke the engine.
 

rcarlisle wrote

As for the chinese carb, I bet you have a LOT of Chinese stuff, even if it isn't on your truck.  We all do. You can't help it anymore.    I don't have $200 - $400 to spend on a refurbed carb.  And I may end up paying even more eventually, if that screw is still in there somewhere.  Truck is running properly and quietly currently.  

I have to buy Chinese stuff once in a while and I now have a $100 paperweight.   But since it is pretty much identical in operation, I can use it to study the operation of the linkage while I'm learning.

Fair enough.  I also kept my old Motorcraft 2150 for the same reason years ago when I replaced it with my Autolite 4100.  I learned a lot from that old carburetor sitting on my desk.

What part of SC?  WE have crews working down there this month at severalplaces, Ladson, Marion, Lexington, N Charleston last month, Beaufort last month.  

I'm all the way up I-77 at the VA line, but not far off I 74 where it splits and goes South separately.  Mt Airy

I let truck warm up just enough to where I know it's running smooth.   About enough time to get settled in the truck and get my seat belt on.   It lives in the open driveway so frosty morns are a PITA, so I usually don't drive it when it's coverend in frost.   Definitely not on salted roads.  But yeah, I'm old enough to be aware of all that stuff too.  I get a chuckle out of some of the newer owners that have never experienced old vehicles.  

Before I got started on this again recently, the truck would be warm (gauge and heat) but the choke would not come down to hot idle.  So that's been my thing.   Getting the choke system working from scratch.  

I thought the carb was leaking around throttle shaft, but apparently it was flooding.   That's why I ordered a chinese carb.  I saw enough of them on YT vids and reviews were ok.   Figured it would give me a chance to figure some things out.   I would never do it again and if I had to, I'd dang sure make sure to check any fasteners that could go into the engine.  

And if I get the choke working like it should, I may not need a electric 2 wire choke cap.  We'll see...

[rcarlisle]

This might be a site to link to?   https://www.carburetor-blog.com/article-categories/ford-autolite/

[85lebaront2]

He has a lot of good information and parts. The FoMoCo, later Autolite and later Motorcraft two barrels are extremely simple, good working carburetors. They have one of the best booster venturii designs of any carburetor.

Some of the ones built from 1975 up have a pair of metering rods in the air bleeds that can be used to lean or enrich the main mixture. These are actuated by a small cam in the center of the throttle shaft.

[rcarlisle]

There are some good things out there that can be confusing.  One of those is what had me turning a screw in the wrong direction, which led me to the place I am now.   But hopefully on the way back to proper operation.